On the Bit

tedster

tedster

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Ok well recently being watching lots of videos on You Tube and noted lots of riders seem to saw on the horses mouth to get them on the bit?? To me this looks wrong but the comments on the videos say things like "wow your an amazing rider" etc.... but you can clearly see the riders hands moving from side to side
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I havent had lessons for years but was always taught not to saw and to use legs and seat, gently play on reins but not saw??
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Have things changed??
 
I'd have every horse bitless if I could!
I agree, utterly horrendous - perhaps not as many kids in pony club anymore?
It all seems to be about the end result and not how you get there.
 
I think it comes from the term "on the bit" people just think it means the head is in rather than working engaged and attentive. I will admit I have sawn the bit but only as a last resort with strong horses and its more of a 1,2,1,2 "you be nice and I'll be nice" thing. Although now that I think about it i've only really done it on RS school horses who are generally under bitted to save their mouths from bad hands.... luckily where the last riding school I was at knew I had nice hands so each horse was appropriatly bitted. I sound terrible now!
 
Its a short cut and lazy way to get a horse to bring its head in look all 'pretty', which is not on the bit nor working correctly into the hand, they are just moving away from the discomfort, rather than taking the time to actually ride the horse in and use lots of effort and basically both horse and rider being fit and supple enough to work correctly, which takes time.

Usually you'll see one kid do it and before you know it, its spread through pony club camp like some contagious disease! until they get caught in the act and get a serious dressing down by a RI.

If horse is tanking of with you, then the above does help I agree, but that is used for safety reasons only.
 
i always thought that you need to slightly play with the reins until the horse gives the head and then you stop playing and start relaxing not bliming saw the horses mouth
 
Just a thought : Where do the lines between elastic contact, fluid contact, playing with bit and then sawing lie?

I don't keep my hands still (on Pip) and at times the lines become blurred IMO. One day the slightest move of I one hand, makes no response, and quite a reminder needs to be done to acheive correct bend. Other days the pony overreacts and although hands are as still as can be his head moves slightly from side to side, asif I was sawing.
 
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I think it comes from the term "on the bit" people just think it means the head is in rather than working engaged and attentive.

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Agreed! I hate the term 'on the bit' it puts far too much emphasis on the horses head&neck. I think the term 'between the aids' is much more appropriate & should be used in PC/RC or when teaching someone to ride. I know it makes me think about riding the horse from back into the front, rather than 'saw' at him until he falls into a fake frame.
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In my mind playing with the bit is like giving butterflies down the rein little tiny vibrations using small movement of the fingers not big chuffing tugs using the hand/arm.

It works for me but I am happy to be corrected
 
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Just a thought : Where do the lines between elastic contact, fluid contact, playing with bit and then sawing lie?


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I would say they are quite distinct -
Elastic contact - keeping a steady sympathetic contact that encourages horse to stretch into the rein softly with acceptance and forwardness.

Fluid contact - aiming towards same feel as elastic contact, but maybe for a horse that leans on one rein constantly, keeping the bit 'alive' in the horse's mouth by making small adjustments (a temporary 'fix' IMHO until the horse accepts an equal contact)

Playing with the bit - a habit that some novices seem to pick up, believing this is the way to get their horse to keep it's 'nose in'

Sawing - not a good look!

Just my take on it
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I'm no expert but let me try to explain how it feels at least to me. My horse is only just starting to work on the bit and it is not consistent but believe me you know when they are.

You should not be sawing at the mouth at all to make them come on the bit, it is natuurally done by the horse when they flexing correctly through their body and working correctly from behind. The feel in your hands is a bit like having elastic reins in that rather than having a rigid feel with the mouth is it becomes very flexible and light, you still have a contact but it is very much springy feel (hence why it feels like you have elastic reins). Also the feel of the horses body becomes much more soft, you lose any tension and they become very supple bending around your leg.
 
Interesting.

I'd disagree on a couple of points you said- But then again, someones playing with the bit, could be anothers sawing, and another persons fluid contact.

*wrapping myself in circles here* Sorry!
 
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Interesting.

I'd disagree on a couple of points you said- But then again, someones playing with the bit, could be anothers sawing, and another persons fluid contact.

*wrapping myself in circles here* Sorry!

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so if you'r horse is refusing to work non the bit do not ive him a little encouragement ( soory bout the spellin) by slighlty playing with the reins by wigling you fingers as such(could not find another way to describe it), i dont mean this to sound rude either.
 
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cool thanx for the feed back
nice to know I am not totally out of date
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well that could be debateable (sorry spelling) hehehe
 
Is that to me?

If Ginga is nose poking i simpy shorten the reins, hands totally stil and use more legs, as this is all he needs, he is a geek, in a way. He is never going to lift his forhand in perfect collection for very long, but enough for me, I know his physical limits, and it doesn't hold him back at novice dressage.

With Pip, If he is what I would call on the bit, but nose poking, I collect him up more, if he has been warmed up properly, and it just holding his head up and horizontal because he is being a trirp depending on how he feels he get various movments of the reins, from very quick 'wiggly work fingers', slower wiggly worm fingers, or if he feels like he is about to P off a determined pull of about an inch. If he is refusing correct bend, by being asked nicely he gets the same on inside rein. If he leans on my hand or tries to block one side I have to keep the bit moving, by slow wiggly fingers, but he can overreact to that and make it look like I'm sawing.

Round every bend I tweak the outside rein whilst half halting coming in, then allow it fowards round the bend, and half halt tweaking on the other side. This is currently working better than holding outside and tweaking inside, but that cycles.

Different again for Brook, Rory and Fred, who all try and coil back against the contact, so spend the time 'pushing' the contact out, whilst not letting it go floppy, with alot of leg, but not as much as pip round the bends as they do lateral work
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Is that to me?

If Ginga is nose poking i simpy shorten the reins, hands totally stil and use more legs, as this is all he needs, he is a geek, in a way. He is never going to lift his forhand in perfect collection for very long, but enough for me, I know his physical limits, and it doesn't hold him back at novice dressage.

With Pip, If he is what I would call on the bit, but nose poking, I collect him up more, if he has been warmed up properly, and it just holding his head up and horizontal because he is being a trirp depending on how he feels he get various movments of the reins, from very quick 'wiggly work fingers', slower wiggly worm fingers, or if he feels like he is about to P off a determined pull of about an inch. If he is refusing correct bend, by being asked nicely he gets the same on inside rein. If he leans on my hand or tries to block one side I have to keep the bit moving, by slow wiggly fingers, but he can overreact to that and make it look like I'm sawing.

Round every bend I tweak the outside rein whilst half halting coming in, then allow it fowards round the bend, and half halt tweaking on the other side. This is currently working better than holding outside and tweaking inside, but that cycles.

Different again for Brook, Rory and Fred, who all try and coil back against the contact, so spend the time 'pushing' the contact out, whilst not letting it go floppy, with alot of leg, but not as much as pip round the bends as they do lateral work
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see with nobby if i just hold the reins he will fight it but yet if i gentley play he will accept it, so it is diffrent for horses i was just wondering
 
With Pip, if the bit is totally still he locks one side of his head, and goes before he is warmed up/in that mood
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Then you have all 400KG of him, in one hand.
 
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With Pip, if the bit is totally still he locks one side of his head, and goes before he is warmed up/in that mood
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Then you have all 400KG of him, in one hand.

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lol somtimes know how you feel.
 
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cool thanx for the feed back
nice to know I am not totally out of date
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well that could be debateable (sorry spelling) hehehe

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Knobend are you suggesting I am an old fart?
 
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