Ongoing lumpy skin - experiences please!

[PurBee]

Youre welcome ginageo, like you said, there’s loads of wonderful info here on this board and im glad to share what ive learnt too so others can be helped, if our horses are healthy and happy, so are we, oh for the love of the horse!

Thanks for the protexin tip...i never knew they did one without alfalfa. I always use the ‘gut balancer’ one they do.

 

[ycbm]

Just an update...

He had another flare up so when vaccinations were due I had him Allergy Tested. My Vet was of the opinion that the "Sensitest" blood test was much improved and we decided to go with that.

Results have just come back...

Linseed, Barley, Soybean, Wheat, Carrot, Sugar Beet, Alfalfa, Corn, Peas are all positives. Nothing related to grass or mould or insects which is something. Of those he is most sensitive to Linseed - which I have been stuffing down him in an effort to improve his skin

Am cutting him back down to basics (Grass nuts) when everybody else gets a little something for coming in. And will monitor. I think this is probably part of the jigsaw puzzle, but will give his system a month to clam down and see where we are...

Fascinating! Thanks for letting us know that. I'd bet that I would get exactly that same list back if I tested my Appyx. He is now on grass nuts and haylage.

.

 

[GinaGeo]

I thought I’d give a little update, in case anybody is interested.

Pod has been off all allergens now since the test results came back.

He’s also just finished a month on Protexin Relief Aid, which seemed very palatable and do seem to have helped.

I was also reminded of using bicarbonate of soda in water as a free choice option. Pod and one of my others (that I suspect was a bit gutty) chose to drink that water. I don’t know whether it helps, but they were preferring it.

His spots have definitely reduced, to the extent that I did actually crack on and get him going again over Christmas, which he very much enjoyed.



I’ve also found that he reacts to coconut oil and tea tree oil when applied topically. Although that is a short term reaction and clears after a few days - but more things to avoid.

The Barrier Pesky Pest Wash seems to be okay and so does Gold Label Pink Cream with MSM. He’s very much a patch test kind of horse!

Hoping when he changes his coat, his skin will improve a bit.

I’m also going to be very careful with grass this summer, as I think the allergy’s are very much the result of a sore hind gut, affecting immune system.

But for now, I think we are at last, going in the right direction.

Thank you everyone for you collective suggestions!

 

[GinaGeo]

A non-coronavirus related update from itch-gate.

Following the last update my vet suggested that we try another steroid injection, just to see if could help him along a little. Wish I hadn’t agreed, it caused another flare up.

Knowing that the pre and probiotics had a positive effect the first time I set to speaking to every to what felt like every supplier of pre and probiotics in the country.

I settled on trying the new Equibiome Product which can be used without testing, it contains significantly more strains of bacteria than the others and most importantly didn’t contain anything he’s allergic to.

We started off on a double dose to start with and I am now just dropping to the normal dosage. It was a massive turning point.

I did notice that he seemed to flare up his hind gut sensitivity again so we’re trying him on a course of Sucralfate to see if we can settle that down again. He’s been much happier.

He still only eats grass. Soft hay, soft haylage, grass nuts, grass chaff and his Pro-Earth minerals. He is tolerating fresh grass as well which is a relief!

He does seem need wrapping up against the flies and does seem to react to his own sweat so is thoroughly washed off after work.

Thanks again for pointing us in the right direction. No gut, no horse!

 

[chaps89]

He's a sweet looking chap isn't he. I'm glad you've found something that seems to be helping, and thanks for coming back to update!

 

[PurBee]

So wonderful to hear of your progress. Thanks for the probiotic suggestion...i had wondered if there was one on the market with more strains than the ‘regular’ ones.

With multiple allergies, the immune system seemingly reacting to ‘everything’, in humans the testing amd studies are more extensive and they point to a breach in the gut wall barrier, enabling much larger food particles through which then is ‘flagged’ by the immune system as ‘foreign invader’ and it goes in to attack this and make antibodies to these normal foods. Hence why human allergy tests for folk with this dysbiosis will often show multiple allergies. We then see symptoms of rashes, hives more often too, as the immune system is also over-active.

Healing the gut wall via probiotics, glutamine, folate will help suppress immune response back to healthy levels. Also adaptogenic tonic herbs are used for this too. They stimulate a sluggish immune system and suppress an over-active one.
I know humans have success with this group of herbs for immune response issues and it seems horses react well to tinctures of these herbs too:

look at the reviews of this product. I wouldnt personally buy this as its a multimineral with adaptogenic herbal tinctures added and the mineral levels are minimal for a horse and not worth bothering with for the price they charge, but i find the reviews interesting regarding immune system improvement in the user’s horses:

https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/apf--advanced-protection-formula-2285#reviewsTab

Heres an article about adaptogens for horses:

https://holistichorse.com/equine-therapy/adaptogenic-herbs-defined/

Obviously these herbs are a help during a flare up if your horse has a reaction to steroids as your did. Ultimately its seems repairing tight junctions in the villi of the intestinal wall is the focus to full cure, as you have been doing with multi species probiotics. Also look into glutamine and folate for repairing and helping to grow a thicker mucosal digestive wall.

If gut issues continue i would suspect intestinal bacterial infection, and would use a food grade high ionic clay like bentonite, to attract and sweep out the gut, suspected pathogenic gram negative and gram positive bacteria. The clay won’t ‘undo’ the work youve put into getting good probiotics into his gut, whereas broad-spec antibiotics would kill them all, good and bad bacteria leaving you at square one, with needing to repopulate his gut.
I’ve used clay myself after a severe dysbiosis spell and its very mild, palatable. Horses tend to lick clay deposits they find in the soil, so seem to naturally like it!
Soak a tablespoon of clay in half pint of water....it’ll swell up and drink all the water to make a ‘slurry’ which i then mix in to a wet mash feed like wet beet pulp. A few days of this treatment works well if probiotics fail to address gut/poop issues.

If there’s a severe intestinal pathogenic bacterial issue that probiotics and clay doesn’t help, then broad spec antibiotics are very useful to wipe the ‘slate clean’ and start repopulating again with multi probiotics.

Research study on clay uses for bacteria:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2413170/

 

[quizzie]

Which of the Equibiome products are you using ?

 

[GinaGeo]

He’s a lovely boy, a proper sweetheart.

Interesting you say that Purbee. I found him digging into a poo and the clay soil this afternoon. He must know something I don’t!

He’s on the Probiotoc. The new one that they launched at BETA this year. I’ve been very impressed.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Thanks for the update - I missed your OP. We have just stopped giving our Appaloosa linseed which seems to be helping with her itching, although there was nothing to see, she was obviously driven mad by it to the extent that she has broken the stable door open twice in a week.
We have had another severely allergic/sensitive horse (TBxWelsh) but she did have hives, particularly if she got hot. I'm so glad that you have managed to make your horse much more comfortable.

 

[quizzie]

Do you mean the equibiome prebiotic?!...and how long did you stay on the double dose?...thanks.

 

[GinaGeo]

Sorry - yes! It’s aimed at the hind gut ?

 

[cauda equina]

Interesting that he's eating poo
Faecal transplants are one way of improving gut flora but are usually delivered by methods other than just scoffing it!