sandy3924
Well-Known Member
YO is considering new surfaces for the school. Sand has been suggested and as I have limited experience of riding on a sand surface I would welcome your opinions and experiences. Thank you
Opinions of sand as a school surface please
- Thread starter sandy3924
- Start date
awelshandawarmblood
Well-Known Member
Our school is sand only on the yard & I find it lovely, firm & stable but with give.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
Sand is fine when it's right but in my experience can either bee too deep or too hard or clogs the drains and floods. But I've ridden in a few nice sand schools too. Any surface is ok with good maintenance and knowledgeable installation I think.
Sand can also be abrasive and a chunk if the reason my horse currently can't be barefoot is because the school takes her foot right off, it's really horrible gritty sand that also floods and goes hard though so the worst if everything really! It's not deep at least!!
Sand can also be abrasive and a chunk if the reason my horse currently can't be barefoot is because the school takes her foot right off, it's really horrible gritty sand that also floods and goes hard though so the worst if everything really! It's not deep at least!!
sandy3924
Well-Known Member
Thankyou for your replies - really helpful .
teddypops
Well-Known Member
I have a sand school and while it is better than nothing, if it’s wet and cold in the winter it freezes solid and if it’s really dry in the summer it gets very deep. If you have the option of something else, go for something else.
wattamus
Well-Known Member
We have sand at our yard, it does retain water in wet weather and can be quite gloopy (not good for tendons) and then in winter will freeze solid if temp drops. Also in summer during the heatwave we had, it became very dusty so if your horse likes to have a good stretch down they can end up sneezing and coughing.
But otherwise it's nice enough to ride/ jump/school and fall on! Haha
It depends on budget, better off getting expensive sand than cheap alternative
But otherwise it's nice enough to ride/ jump/school and fall on! Haha
It depends on budget, better off getting expensive sand than cheap alternative
kathantoinette
Well-Known Member
Silica sand with a stabiliser of either fibre or rubber. If you don’t put the stabiliser in the surface will ride deep and blow away in windy, dry weather.
Barton Bounty
If you heard the rumours it is probably true 😂
We had a lovely sand school and some others that use the school regularly thought it would be good to add carpet! So they did but never did it properly and the mix of sand and carpet wasnt right. Its completely ruined now and boggy , i never go in it. It was really nice just as sand.
And then again done right and the arena can be great as my friend had it done 🤷ðŸ¼â€â™€ï¸ So just depends
And then again done right and the arena can be great as my friend had it done 🤷ðŸ¼â€â™€ï¸ So just depends
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
agree.
I have had sand and finely shredded fibre, that was fine in all but the driest spells - it was good then after 10 mins with the sprinklers on but it was a private yard so easy to prepare when I wanted it.
Current yard has sand and flexiride which is similar to shredded carpet, that is a fantastic surface in all weathers, even if the bottom freezes the top is good enough for slow work.
I used to visit a yard which was only sand, there were about 10 days a year when it was excellent and the rest of the time veered between soggy mess and sand dunes.
Fransurrey
Well-Known Member
Ours is just sand and it's ok after rain (ours is well draining), but becomes very deep after a period of dry weather.
Melody Grey
Well-Known Member
I've been on yards with various surfaces. My favourite was probably chipped rubber tyres mixed with silica sand- rode nicely and didn't freeze on even the coldest of days, but was well drained and the location was relatively sheltered.
I've seen lots of wood chip arenas disintegrate and form a really boggy mulchy mess and one where it started to mix with the soil! Obviously membrane issues there!
I think the key to it is good preparation- ensure the groundwork and drainage is right and that's most of the battle won. Also maintain the surface regularly- even the best surface needs tlc!
I've seen lots of wood chip arenas disintegrate and form a really boggy mulchy mess and one where it started to mix with the soil! Obviously membrane issues there!
I think the key to it is good preparation- ensure the groundwork and drainage is right and that's most of the battle won. Also maintain the surface regularly- even the best surface needs tlc!
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
I think this is where an experienced contractor + supplier is really useful.
Many people assume that the more drains the better. The surface we put down at last place was actually better with a smaller number of drains because the high % sand in the surface needed more moisture to stay rideable. it was on the side of a hill so relatively well draining anyway. The company who put the surface in really were experts in that regard.
Melody Grey
Well-Known Member
Indeed. I think some of the less reputable contractors scrimp on the groundwork to keep the cost down, very difficult to see how good a job has been done once the surface is down...until it misbehaves. I'm never likely to be able to afford a school of my own, but if I did I'd want to see/try one of their finished arenas a year or so after it was done!
J&S
Well-Known Member
However well the sand school rides, bear in mind the effect of sand on your horses hooves.
Beausmate
Well-Known Member
Not all sands are the same. There are many different types and grades available, some much more suitable than others.
maya2008
Well-Known Member
Some sand schools = amazing. Many are horrible - deep and even with a rubber top they just are hard going. There are better surfaces out there!
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
One of the best surfaces I rode on was silca sand and crushed cockle shells, it rode fairly firm, drained well and never froze.
Silca sand is the best sand surface, I have seen surfaces made worse by adding shredded carpet-it made it water and deeper in wet weather and drier and deeper in dry weather-beaten improved when we had a long dry windy period and the shredded carpet blew away. I am not a fan of rubber in a surface nor was my late vet, he believed it causes/allows over extention of the joints and that damages soft tissue.
Silca sand is the best sand surface, I have seen surfaces made worse by adding shredded carpet-it made it water and deeper in wet weather and drier and deeper in dry weather-beaten improved when we had a long dry windy period and the shredded carpet blew away. I am not a fan of rubber in a surface nor was my late vet, he believed it causes/allows over extention of the joints and that damages soft tissue.
captainmark
Member
Hi all, we have finally started using our school just a few weeks back! Was built May/June time - long wait but worth it......... surface is 6" sub angular silica sand, which then needed lots and lots of rain to bed down - assisted with leveller. (we dont have mains water yet - on the way!). Patience is so frustrating! We then had combi-ride dual stabliser mixed in. Results so far are impressive. A ridiculous amount of time was spent researching - there are so many opinions out there (including from so called professionals). It wasn't easy but so far happy we made all the right decisions and happy to share if it helps others......
Ensure silica sand and that it is sub angular (the shape is crucial). Bought a £20 microsope to plug into laptop! Chose slightly coarser (W60) than many use. Having obtained samples quite clear it was less prone to blowing in wind when dry - was an element of risk in case it didnt pack down as well but worked out fine. This was important as we are quite exposed. In theory it could dry out quicker however. (one of the reasons to add stabliiser as it holds onto moisture). Suggest talking to local quarries direct in addition to surface suppliers. Check first load is correct too before they tip!! Getting the wrong sand will be a very expensive mistake. Round grains will roll around (think mini marbles) and angular will pack down too tightly creating a hard surface and will struggle to drain. Think of the season too when you have sand delivered - if sand very wet you are paying for more water and less sand !!
sand on it's own was our original hope knowing we probably needed to add something. Which we did - on it's own probably too loose when dry (and dries quicker) and probably too hard when wet. Our understanding is it will more readily freeze and take longer to thaw too. With tines on a leveller with fibres it should break up easier. Not yet experienced a deep freeze however
With regard to what you mix in - spoken to numerous suppliers and looked at many samples. we even mixed in with sand - dry and wet. I believe a lot of products will just 'float' to surface and blow away as many didnt seem to bind in - which they need to do to work. IMHO a lot of these were complete rubbish (literally!) - many of which quite clearly weren't going to mix in properly and do what they are meant to. The theory is I understand is whatever you use works a bit like grass roots holding sand together. (Which ours seems to be doing very nicely). One sample even contained foam that the company concerned said they didnt use!! Be very careful - getting this wrong will again be very expensive. Rubber chips by the way we dismissed - you will need to research but as I understand there are environmental issues / EU rulings etc over using it. And it stinks! We were interested in chopped (small) electric cable insulation - have seen this before and seemed good but don't know what else was in sand. But the only company selling it don't answer the phone or emails so gave up in end!! Interested if anyone else knows any more? There is another one selling it cheap but having looked at images on line didn't go anywhere near it - guessing risk of wires still present?
For the leveller again having researched extensively we came to the conclusion not to use a car to tow (we bought a second hand ride on lawnmower without the blades - ie a cheap mini tractor) and to use a proper adjustable leveller - managed to get an arenamate type one with tines second hand. Tines currently removed but think may need them if frozen or packed down too hard - if indeed either happens. Time will tell................ Original plan was to use car and a chain harrow (tines up) - but having spoken to a number of people seems this is not a good idea and and arena will soon be out of level! Also isnt going to drag surface in from kickboards when it rides up - which it will. Another expense not budgeted for but can't cut corners with poor maintenance after the money spent!
and for anyone starting from scratch:
Below the surface don't scrimp either! We went over budget on the whole thing - go too cheap and it won't work and the money will be wasted. Value for money is key! Do it once and get it right!
We used a decent groundworker. They had trenchers which made a great job of drainage channels. Talking to various arena companies i wasn't filled with confidence as they didn't want to divulge exact details of what they were offering and feel short cuts were likely. Less money but they didn't want to give us what we wanted and asked for! You get what you are given / this is our standard product attitude. Be cautious. Some will of course be fine no doubt. Ensure you understand how an arena works and know what you want
We had plenty of drains as on clay (nowhere else for water to go!) with the collector drain outside the school on the low (40m) side so should in the unlikely event we have problems way in the future we can dig down and jet out as needed. Ensure membranes and drainage stone correct. Stone will of course vary depending where you are in country. Not too small as the gaps act as reservoir, and not to big as won't pack down as well - need flat surface for the membrane and you dont want it to settle later. And enough of it !!
We have built on a slope - corner to corner dropped about 500mm. Avoided cut and fill however avoiding settling problems later. Many people will tell you this is fine but we didn't want to take the risk - in our opinion (and the groundworkers) this is a real (very expensive) risk. No spoil removed from site which is costly. we have built a bank on 2 sides which looks great.
----------------------
think i've gone on enough now!! As you may have gathered this almost became an obsession getting it right!!! Hope my comments will help others with time and decisions.....obviously not professional advice and only our opinions / conclusions!!.......... I did ask for comments on this forum way back during the planning / design process which was very helpful - so will update with same! if i think of anything else I'll be back - really must do some work now!
Ensure silica sand and that it is sub angular (the shape is crucial). Bought a £20 microsope to plug into laptop! Chose slightly coarser (W60) than many use. Having obtained samples quite clear it was less prone to blowing in wind when dry - was an element of risk in case it didnt pack down as well but worked out fine. This was important as we are quite exposed. In theory it could dry out quicker however. (one of the reasons to add stabliiser as it holds onto moisture). Suggest talking to local quarries direct in addition to surface suppliers. Check first load is correct too before they tip!! Getting the wrong sand will be a very expensive mistake. Round grains will roll around (think mini marbles) and angular will pack down too tightly creating a hard surface and will struggle to drain. Think of the season too when you have sand delivered - if sand very wet you are paying for more water and less sand !!
sand on it's own was our original hope knowing we probably needed to add something. Which we did - on it's own probably too loose when dry (and dries quicker) and probably too hard when wet. Our understanding is it will more readily freeze and take longer to thaw too. With tines on a leveller with fibres it should break up easier. Not yet experienced a deep freeze however
With regard to what you mix in - spoken to numerous suppliers and looked at many samples. we even mixed in with sand - dry and wet. I believe a lot of products will just 'float' to surface and blow away as many didnt seem to bind in - which they need to do to work. IMHO a lot of these were complete rubbish (literally!) - many of which quite clearly weren't going to mix in properly and do what they are meant to. The theory is I understand is whatever you use works a bit like grass roots holding sand together. (Which ours seems to be doing very nicely). One sample even contained foam that the company concerned said they didnt use!! Be very careful - getting this wrong will again be very expensive. Rubber chips by the way we dismissed - you will need to research but as I understand there are environmental issues / EU rulings etc over using it. And it stinks! We were interested in chopped (small) electric cable insulation - have seen this before and seemed good but don't know what else was in sand. But the only company selling it don't answer the phone or emails so gave up in end!! Interested if anyone else knows any more? There is another one selling it cheap but having looked at images on line didn't go anywhere near it - guessing risk of wires still present?
For the leveller again having researched extensively we came to the conclusion not to use a car to tow (we bought a second hand ride on lawnmower without the blades - ie a cheap mini tractor) and to use a proper adjustable leveller - managed to get an arenamate type one with tines second hand. Tines currently removed but think may need them if frozen or packed down too hard - if indeed either happens. Time will tell................ Original plan was to use car and a chain harrow (tines up) - but having spoken to a number of people seems this is not a good idea and and arena will soon be out of level! Also isnt going to drag surface in from kickboards when it rides up - which it will. Another expense not budgeted for but can't cut corners with poor maintenance after the money spent!
and for anyone starting from scratch:
Below the surface don't scrimp either! We went over budget on the whole thing - go too cheap and it won't work and the money will be wasted. Value for money is key! Do it once and get it right!
We used a decent groundworker. They had trenchers which made a great job of drainage channels. Talking to various arena companies i wasn't filled with confidence as they didn't want to divulge exact details of what they were offering and feel short cuts were likely. Less money but they didn't want to give us what we wanted and asked for! You get what you are given / this is our standard product attitude. Be cautious. Some will of course be fine no doubt. Ensure you understand how an arena works and know what you want
We had plenty of drains as on clay (nowhere else for water to go!) with the collector drain outside the school on the low (40m) side so should in the unlikely event we have problems way in the future we can dig down and jet out as needed. Ensure membranes and drainage stone correct. Stone will of course vary depending where you are in country. Not too small as the gaps act as reservoir, and not to big as won't pack down as well - need flat surface for the membrane and you dont want it to settle later. And enough of it !!
We have built on a slope - corner to corner dropped about 500mm. Avoided cut and fill however avoiding settling problems later. Many people will tell you this is fine but we didn't want to take the risk - in our opinion (and the groundworkers) this is a real (very expensive) risk. No spoil removed from site which is costly. we have built a bank on 2 sides which looks great.
----------------------
think i've gone on enough now!! As you may have gathered this almost became an obsession getting it right!!! Hope my comments will help others with time and decisions.....obviously not professional advice and only our opinions / conclusions!!.......... I did ask for comments on this forum way back during the planning / design process which was very helpful - so will update with same! if i think of anything else I'll be back - really must do some work now!