Opinions on backing youngster with crooked pelvis

[Illusion100]

As title really. Bought unvetted. For some reason buyer then had a vetting a few days after buying horse. Failed vetting before it started due to significantly crooked pelvis.

Vets advised xray at least to investigate. I do not know if this has done.

However, buyers saying it's probably just muscle wastage and have started backing it. Horse is being trotted up and down tarmac currently with rider and doesn't look like it's enjoying the backing/breaking process.

So, I guess I'm asking, is this a normal thing? To just go ahead with breaking a horse with a crooked pelvis of unknown cause?

I'm a bit shocked, but didn't know if anyone else just cracks on with this type of situation?

 

[Melody Grey]

A weak youngster I’ve heard of and worked with (building up very slowly and plenty of groundwork before even considering a saddle). A crooked one, absolutely not. It’s hardly the right start for a horse.

 

[AmyMay]

Lost for words really.

 

[shortstuff99]

I think it depends on the reason for the crooked pelvis. My old pony fractured his pelvis as a foal and as a result one side was higher then the other.

Never caused him a single problem in his life and he stayed sound until he died in his 30's!

 

[Illusion100]

A weak youngster I’ve heard of and worked with (building up very slowly and plenty of groundwork before even considering a saddle). A crooked one, absolutely not. It’s hardly the right start for a horse.

It's both weak and crooked.

Extremely laid back temperament generally. Feel that's being taken advantage of.

 

[Illusion100]

Lost for words really.

I feel quite sad about it all. If a youngster won't stand by a mounting block, and moves off as soon as the rider is getting on and moves with high head, tense neck, hollow back and not tracking up behind, it seems the process isn't going how you'd hope, never mind with a crooked pelvis to boot.

 

[Illusion100]

I think it depends on the reason for the crooked pelvis. My old pony fractured his pelvis as a foal and as a result one side was higher then the other.

Never caused him a single problem in his life and he stayed sound until he died in his 30's!

So sorry for your bad luck, but glad there was a happy ending!

 

[sbloom]

ANY form of muscle wastage needs rebuilding from the ground but especially with backing. They need a smack upside the head if those are the facts. They are creating a horse with physical, emotional and behavioural problems that will break down, sooner rather than later. I'd put money on kissing spines, SI, hock and suspensory problems, a combo of at least 2 if not 3 or 4.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

It depends why it is crooked. If it has previously had a broken pelvis then they need to work to accommodate this. If the horse is just completely crooked then they need to work with physios, saddle fitters etc and build it all up from the ground before even sitting on the poor creature.

 

[sbloom]

It depends why it is crooked. If it has previously had a broken pelvis then they need to work to accommodate this. If the horse is just completely crooked then they need to work with physios, saddle fitters etc and build it all up from the ground before even sitting on the poor creature.

Absolutely agree with the second point but a previously broken pelvis (and the stated muscle wastage) requires the same.

We (I don't mean you specifically!) have this idea that establishing obedience to some basic aids from the ground is pretty much all we need to do before backing. In order to keep long term soundness, and a happy horse, we need to prepare them in all ways to carry a load and that means building them up physically even if they have no issues at all.

 

[rextherobber]

You would hope the x rays have been done and they are following vet advice...
"If a youngster won't stand by a mounting block, and moves off as soon as the rider is getting on and moves with high head, tense neck, hollow back and not tracking up behind.." doesn't sound like it though...poor horse!

 

[Illusion100]

ANY form of muscle wastage needs rebuilding from the ground but especially with backing. They need a smack upside the head if those are the facts. They are creating a horse with physical, emotional and behavioural problems that will break down, sooner rather than later. I'd put money on kissing spines, SI, hock and suspensory problems, a combo of at least 2 if not 3 or 4.

It's been/being lunged against veterinary advice, so pretty sure if the poor horse shouldn't be lunged, it shouldn't be ridden either.

It's had sporadic groundwork for approx a month before being backed. It's 3.

It appears to have a very laidback temperament (I'd kill for a temperament like that! Ok maybe not kill but close enough...), but after seeing it ridden and the warnings signs, I'm not convinced it's going to tolerate things for much longer. If it does then I think I will be even more sad.

Part of me hopes it will have a dangerous reaction in order for people to take it seriously, but at the same time I don't want anyone or the horse hurt.

 

[Illusion100]

It depends why it is crooked. If it has previously had a broken pelvis then they need to work to accommodate this. If the horse is just completely crooked then they need to work with physios, saddle fitters etc and build it all up from the ground before even sitting on the poor creature.

Cause/severity/involved structures have not been investigated to my knowledge.

 

[Illusion100]

You would hope the x rays have been done and they are following vet advice...
"If a youngster won't stand by a mounting block, and moves off as soon as the rider is getting on and moves with high head, tense neck, hollow back and not tracking up behind.." doesn't sound like it though...poor horse!

It didn't look happy or relaxed at all. Very obliging, but not the picture you would hope to see of a horse enjoying it's introduction to a ridden career.

 

[stormox]

How experienced are the buyers?

 

[Illusion100]

How experienced are the buyers?

Less than they believe themselves to be, considering they bought a horse as seen with a pelvis so obviously crooked, the vets time was wasted by their request for a vetting.

The buyers had not noticed the issue before vet pointed it out.

 

[onemoretime]

Unbelievable!

 

[ycbm]

It's odd to vet after purchase. We're they vetting in the hope of insuring it for a lot more than they paid for it, maybe?
.

 

[Illusion100]

Unbelievable!

I'm pretty taken aback. To the point where I had to ask on here if I was missing someone about just cracking on with a crooked horse without investigation, rehab and a professional trainer.

 

[Casey76]

It's been/being lunged against veterinary advice, so pretty sure if the poor horse shouldn't be lunged, it shouldn't be ridden either.

It's had sporadic groundwork for approx a month before being backed. It's 3.

It appears to have a very laidback temperament (I'd kill for a temperament like that! Ok maybe not kill but close enough...), but after seeing it ridden and the warnings signs, I'm not convinced it's going to tolerate things for much longer. If it does then I think I will be even more sad.

Part of me hopes it will have a dangerous reaction in order for people to take it seriously, but at the same time I don't want anyone or the horse hurt.

It could be that the ‘laid back’ is actually ‘shut down’ and at some point the horse will reach saturation point and break (possibly taking handler/riders oit at the same time)

 

[Illusion100]

We're they vetting in the hope of insuring it for a lot more than they paid for it, maybe?
.

I don't believe so. I think they were conned as they tried to sell it after vetting.

 

[Illusion100]

It could be that the ‘laid back’ is actually ‘shut down’ and at some point the horse will reach saturation point and break (possibly taking handler/riders oit at the same time)

Hmmm, yes, I think it is quiet as a result of living in constant pain/discomfort. Of course I don't know what level on the pain scale it's in or it's individual pain tolerance. Something just isn't right.

I do think the horse has a sweet/kind temperament, but for me it is suspiciously laid back for a baby so unprepared for ridden work.

Well, until I actually saw it being mounted/ridden. Then I was sad.

For me, warning signs were screaming, but unheard by the rider/helpers.

 

[Melody Grey]

I’m staggered just lately in people’s inability to spot major problems/ lameness. I don’t confess to being any great knowledge particularly on lameness, but there was a video advert on Facebook I saw yesterday- horse throwing it’s head in the air, tail swishing, hollow-backed and disunited behind- literally 20 replies asking for the price! ?‍

 

[Illusion100]

I’m staggered just lately in people’s inability to spot major problems/ lameness. I don’t confess to being any great knowledge particularly on lameness, but there was a video advert on Facebook I saw yesterday- horse throwing it’s head in the air, tail swishing, hollow-backed and disunited behind- literally 20 replies asking for the price! ?‍

I looked over the door at it when it first arrived and cringed at the pelvis/poor condition. I thought it was a rescue until I learned better.

 

[stormox]

I have seen a horse where the hip bone had actually been fractured (going through a door) and had healed but not quite level and it didnt affect the horse at all.
The pelvis looked crooked but it actually wasn't, he became a grade A jumper.

I would assume, as your friend had had a vet even though he didnt do a vetting he would have told the owner how to proceed.

 

[Illusion100]

I have seen a horse where the hip bone had actually been fractured (going through a door) and had healed but not quite level and it didnt affect the horse at all.
The pelvis looked crooked but it actually wasn't, he became a grade A jumper.

I would assume, as your friend had had a vet even though he didnt do a vetting he would have told the owner how to proceed.

It appears veterinary advice was given and not followed

 

[sbloom]

Anyone not taking vet advice in terms of doing more than the vet recommended, and especially when they're doing DO much more than the vet said, is absolutely doing the wrong thing. I nearly posted to the response about being under the vet, as I see plenty of horses advised by vets and bodyworkers to get a better fitting saddle, get on board and crack on. Easy for them to say when they're not asking the owner to commit hundreds of pounds, or more, on a new saddle - often it enables the horse to move better showing up underlying postural/way of going issues which the basic fixes they did, actually didn't fix. We seem to ignore the new pain ethogram, the increasing knowledge on posture and its effects, and instead think we just need to fix, ride and fitten.

 

[hollyandivy123]

It's been/being lunged against veterinary advice, so pretty sure if the poor horse shouldn't be lunged, it shouldn't be ridden either.

It's had sporadic groundwork for approx a month before being backed. It's 3.

It appears to have a very laidback temperament (I'd kill for a temperament like that! Ok maybe not kill but close enough...), but after seeing it ridden and the warnings signs, I'm not convinced it's going to tolerate things for much longer. If it does then I think I will be even more sad.

Part of me hopes it will have a dangerous reaction in order for people to take it seriously, but at the same time I don't want anyone or the horse hurt.

if this is against veterinary advice it is possibly entering formal intervention on animal welfare grounds...............

 

[mariew]

It sounds like a very sad situation for the horse and also that you probably know that things are not right. The question though is do you feel like you need or can do something about it? Is there a yard owner/manager that you can voice your concerns to that they may listen to? It sounds like the owners won't listen to anything they are told as they are seemingly not listening to the vet, so my best and possibly cold hearted thought is to walk away unless welfare organisations need to be called. The board will always be here for people to listen to you if you need to vent, but please don't bog yourself down in the stress if it risks messing with your head and there is nothing you can do about it. Of course this is always easier said than done.

 

[NR88]

I’m staggered just lately in people’s inability to spot major problems/ lameness. I don’t confess to being any great knowledge particularly on lameness, but there was a video advert on Facebook I saw yesterday- horse throwing it’s head in the air, tail swishing, hollow-backed and disunited behind- literally 20 replies asking for the price! ?‍

There does appear to be a current theme of people putting their wishes to keep and/or ride a horse first and above the well being and welfare of the animal including their physical and mental health.

Ignorance is nothing new but some appear to "know" yet chose to close their eyes to the obvious so that they can keep going for their own selfishness.

It is very sad for the animals involved. I believed this to be a forum of people who at their core loved horses. Perhaps that is because as a lurker I picked and chose what threads to read; since signing up I've read what has received the most replies and that appears to be controversial threads. It has not been easy reading recently, in fact it has been quite upsetting.