Opinions on draw reins

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A_hibbs

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Hi all,

I wanted peoples opinion on the use of draw reins. I was looking at them to use on an 12 year old ex racehorse who tends to have a high head carriage. Just as a tool to gently encourage the head to come down, I was thinking with draw reins you can give and take and not have them over tight. I was thinking I’d use them initially but not as a long term solution. I am an experienced rider that certainly does not rely on my hands so I’d be very sympathetic in my hands, but I’ve not actually used them before. Just as this horse (I know well) has had a long career of working with high head carriage so is rather stuck in his ways - will draw reins help??
Any opinions or experiences I’d be grateful to hear

many thanks!!
 
Draw reins can be a helpful corrective tool on a horse like the one you describe - if you are aware that when you use them to solve a problem you will be creating another that you will eventually need to solve too. Even used correctly to guide the horse, you do force it into an outline/prevent it from throwing its head up. But it also teaches the horse a more correct way of going. And while it is harmful to pull the horses head in behind the vertikal it is also harmful for it to go around with the head high and a hollow back.
So you need to consider if the problem you need to solve here and now is bigger than the problem you will need to solve later and pick the lesser of two evils.
 
Any training tool is only as good as the hands that hold it. I don't entirely agree that their use inevitably causes later problems. Training is a journey and the is trick to knowing when to stop one aid and start - on not! - another. Draws are a possible solution. But depending on the finesse of the rider I would also look to a de gogue or de gogue like possibility.

You really need to understand the action of each aid and be able to apply it to the horse in front of you. Do you have a trainer who can help?
 
My issue with draw reins is they’re mainly used on horses who would come soft with time and correct work, but are used as a shortcut. That’s a generalisation of course. What else have you done with this horse? Generally with young or green horses I make sure they have a good turn on the forehand, leg yield, shoulder in, balanced figures of eight and serpentines, and most direct transitions before I start worrying about the outline. Mostly they’re offering it before then, but a weak, young or conformationally challenged horse might not be ready to until they’ve built up some strength. Then when they understand how to work over their back they learn that it’s easy for them, as the building blocks are already there.
Saddle fit and any potential back pain are good to rule out too. If you have a feel of his back, pressing down like you’re giving him a gentle massage, see if he reacts at all. And if he’s changed shape or it’s been over six months since his last saddler appointment I’d look at getting the saddler out too.
 
I used to use them on one of my old horses to hack out. It totally transformed him out hacking and made my life a lot easier. The horse was an older, set in its ways, type.

very rarely used them for schooling, and using them out hacking didn’t interfere with the quality of work he produced
 
You’d be better off warming him up on the lunge in either an elastic bungee or one of the ropes that go over their shoulders (please don’t use a Pessoa they are dreadful). And following that as a retraining plan for a couple of months. It’s a long slog to develop muscles that have never been used and soften the ones that are built from the first career.

I think draw reins certainly have their place. Young or fresh horses yup. To maintain the straightness whilst training tempis yup. But I don’t think they will give you a good outcome on your current horse as the primary issue is tension and lack of knowledge/understanding.
 
They can be useful in certain situations and very counter-productive in others.

Horses need a certain amount of education in the first place in order to 'get' draw reins. An ex-racing thoroughbred still at the head in the air stage won't understand and you'll probably just end up with a ball of tension.
 
I'd be looking at re-educational and postural techniques like Manolo Mendez to help him understand what working from behind and lifting the back means, holding the head down, whatever the gadget, isn't addressing the underlying issues and can cause more problems physically and mentally. Using two tail bandages tied end to end, wrapped as a figure 8 round the chest crossing over across the back, and round above the hocks (enough tension not to drop down to the hocks) is the only "gadget" i would use in addition to a good cavesson.

This comes from 12 years experience as a saddle fitter looking at whole body health, and especially from the brilliant training I have done with Horses Inside Out, and even more so, a course I am on at the moment looking at the whole horse-saddle-rider equation, assisting the rider to better help the horse move correctly. We have gone into posture, and looked at the effect of gadgets, in some depth. I feel it's at the cutting edge of understanding how our horses should move.

Draw reins were developed to use on a cavesson only, never on a bit (snaffles didn't exist at that point anyway), attached to the girth at the sides, to train lateral flexion. I have no idea what "correct" use is beyond that. I have had a quick Google to find evidence, it's not coming up, but this is from the most amazing classical trainer who is rooted in the hundreds of years old foundations of dressage.

This is an interesting site, not been updated for some time from what I can see, yet what I'm learning seems to chime with it http://sustainabledressage.net/tack/gadgets.php#drawreins
 
sbloom said:
I'd be looking at re-educational and postural techniques like Manolo Mendez to help him understand what working from behind and lifting the back means, holding the head down, whatever the gadget, isn't addressing the underlying issues and can cause more problems physically and mentally. Using two tail bandages tied end to end, wrapped as a figure 8 round the chest crossing over across the back, and round above the hocks (enough tension not to drop down to the hocks) is the only "gadget" i would use in addition to a good cavesson.

This comes from 12 years experience as a saddle fitter looking at whole body health, and especially from the brilliant training I have done with Horses Inside Out, and even more so, a course I am on at the moment looking at the whole horse-saddle-rider equation, assisting the rider to better help the horse move correctly. We have gone into posture, and looked at the effect of gadgets, in some depth. I feel it's at the cutting edge of understanding how our horses should move.

Draw reins were developed to use on a cavesson only, never on a bit (snaffles didn't exist at that point anyway), attached to the girth at the sides, to train lateral flexion. I have no idea what "correct" use is beyond that. I have had a quick Google to find evidence, it's not coming up, but this is from the most amazing classical trainer who is rooted in the hundreds of years old foundations of dressage.

This is an interesting site, not been updated for some time from what I can see, yet what I'm learning seems to chime with it http://sustainabledressage.net/tack/gadgets.php#drawreins
Click to expand...

I've just bought the Manolo Mendez dvd! Hoping it will inspire my groundwork and improve the suppleness of my little horse and keep me going till weather improves
 
fredflop said:
I used to use them on one of my old horses to hack out. It totally transformed him out hacking and made my life a lot easier. The horse was an older, set in its ways, type.

very rarely used them for schooling, and using them out hacking didn’t interfere with the quality of work he produced
Click to expand...

This, I have used them as a quick fix on an old loan horse who would set his jaw and tank off out hacking. Never used them for schooling.
 
I am probably one of the only people at my yard who doesn’t use them regularly. It’s a showjumping/eventing yard and they seem to be the norm there, for hacking, flatwork and very often jumping too.

I use them occasionally but my view is that the more you use them when you don’t need to, the harder it becomes to ride without them.
 
To be honest some riders have such un steady fiddling hands I would rather see soft draw reins than the whole see saw yank pull as people attempt to get their horse 'on the bit'
My old good friend is a well respected equine back lady here in the UK and she said with gentle hands and lots of leg on (so they don't trail along with the hinds but use the hinds under them) they can be absolutely useful.
 
I use draw reins as a safety tool rather than a training tool - hacking a horse who’s very fresh and likely to be silly or when you first sit on something again likely to bounce around a bit. They often just help with keeping its head somewhere safe!

For your horse you need to take a look and think of how to strengthen the horse in a way that helps it lift its back and drop his head. Lots of ground work, long reining and pole work (including grids) to build the horses core. Once stronger you can begin encouraging the horse to work in a lower frame - my tense, short upside down necked Connie spent many hours trotting as slowly as I could in small circles and figures of 8’s to completely change his way of going and thinking before ‘picking him up’ again. We had to spend a lot of time losing the wrong muscles while building the right ones.

This is a long journey, but don’t the right way will give you a strong, fit horse to enjoy for many years to come xx
 
Lillian_paddington said:
My issue with draw reins is they’re mainly used on horses who would come soft with time and correct work, but are used as a shortcut. That’s a generalisation of course. What else have you done with this horse? Generally with young or green horses I make sure they have a good turn on the forehand, leg yield, shoulder in, balanced figures of eight and serpentines, and most direct transitions before I start worrying about the outline. Mostly they’re offering it before then, but a weak, young or conformationally challenged horse might not be ready to until they’ve built up some strength. Then when they understand how to work over their back they learn that it’s easy for them, as the building blocks are already there.
Saddle fit and any potential back pain are good to rule out too. If you have a feel of his back, pressing down like you’re giving him a gentle massage, see if he reacts at all. And if he’s changed shape or it’s been over six months since his last saddler appointment I’d look at getting the saddler out too.
Click to expand...

100% this. we get in exracers and sulkies racers to retrain, the sulkies especially would have very high head carriages, but I never use draw reins. the training path Lillian mentions has worked for 100% of them all. when the strength and balance is there the head carriage is offered to you naturally.
 
Don't like them but they have their uses. My old QH mare was stubbonly fixed on her nose being in the air while dropping her back. Refused to change this, not for love nor money. And the more you tried generating impulsion, the highter the head would go. I was about 15, but I had a very good dressage trainer at the time, and the mare could out-evade and out-resist her. Finally, the trainer put the mare in a chambone, just for a couple lessons. It was like we had to use the kit to force her head down and prove to her that moving forward, under saddle, in a non-giraffe-like position was physically possible. We weren't asking for an advanced dressage outline. All we wanted at the time was some vague softening and forward while not bracing the lower neck muscles against the hand. But we only needed the chambone for a couple lessons. Once the mare realised that lowering her head and neck and softening was not only achievable, it was also far less sh1t than what she'd been doing, she offered it without the chambone. But until we stuck her in the leverage thingme that forced her into a position, she wasn't even offering behaviour we could reward.

I have also lived next door to a yard where they would start young horses in draw reins/chambones/ de gogues. I was just a neighbor, so all I could do was be horrified, but not much else. Ex-husband would say, "Surely there are lots of ways to train horses." I would say yes, but forcing a newly backed horse into an outline with draw reins is always the wrong thing to do. That horse will have a lot to tell its therapist when it's seven.
 
I think they are great - I am still alive galloping and hacking some of the horses thanks to draw reins.
Very rarely use them for schooling but have done when stuck on something and they might help understanding. Personally prefer the harbridge schooling though.
 
Not sure about using them on your horse but it's your choice. In the wrong hands, they can have pretty bad consequences. Personally, I prefer a more natural way of schooling but if you want to use them make sure you use them properly!
 
Every person makes their own choices, but I would add that when a horse is telling you that something hurts (Head carried high, resistant to yield to bit pressure and carry it's head more normally) it's probably best if you listen and start looking for the "Why" behind the behavior.

I see WAY too many folks interested in quickly "fixing" an issue with artificial devices, bad training and yes even drugs. Ultimately taking more time and properly doing your homework with a vet first and slow and steady muscle reschooling once deemed healthy enough to do so, leads to a FAR better end destination.

You absolutely get what you pay for with any horse and how you treat it.

Em
 
Michen said:
Not a fan for schooling purposes. One of my Irish horses was broken in and schooled in draw reins and it’s been a hell of a job to get him to soften naturally.

The other one I did use them on sometimes as a baby for hacking, that was a safety thing. Worked well ?
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Same spent months trying to make mine less tense after being schooled in draw reins (we think)
 
MummyEms said:
To be honest some riders have such un steady fiddling hands I would rather see soft draw reins than the whole see saw yank pull as people attempt to get their horse 'on the bit'
My old good friend is a well respected equine back lady here in the UK and she said with gentle hands and lots of leg on (so they don't trail along with the hinds but use the hinds under them) they can be absolutely useful.
Click to expand...
Given the choice between sawing, yanking and jerking in a snaffle and proper use of drawreins, I'm sure I'd choose drawreins (if I was a horse)
 
"Well it's better than...." isn't a good reason for using something when the thing it's better than is flipping awful! Holding the head down, with any technique, any artificial aid, is something I would only consider after trying absolutely everything else. A horse dropping into an outline at the front end is only a sign that the rest of the body, and the mind, is working correctly, forcing the outline is almost literally putting the cart before the horse. If you have reached the end of the road and figured that, after intensive groundwork with the guidance of, or directly by, someone who really knows their stuff (Manolo, Dan Wain, Jenku etc), that the horse literally doesn't understand that he can drop his head, then maybe draw reins are a least worst option.

I believe a Chambon should never be ridden in, again I see it the same way as draw reins, but the De Gogue is the version you can ride in safely.
 
Well I'm way out of date on these things, so this can probably be dismissed these days, but in my past I retrained ex racers, and this was how it went for me.

I could have spent weeks and weeks doing the "correct" training to get a horse which was upside down and strung out, at times riding on the edge of safety because these were young and spirited creatures, to come into a better shape.

Or I could use draw reins which, much like a martingale but with much better control, prevented the horse from flinging its head up or around. Using them, I could show the horse in days, or hours, that it was actually much more comfortable and safe for both of us if it took its ears out of my mouth, turned its neck the right way up and lifted its back to carry me.

I never competed to any great standard, and I haven't used them myself for years, but it still seems to me that they have their place.
 
ycbm said:
Well I'm way out of date on these things, so this can probably be dismissed these days, but in my past I retrained ex racers, and this was how it went for me.

I could have spent weeks and weeks doing the "correct" training to get a horse which was upside down and strung out, at times riding on the edge of safety because these were young and spirited creatures, to come into a better shape.

Or I could use draw reins which, much like a martingale but with much better control, prevented the horse from flinging its head up or around. Using them, I could show the horse in days, or hours, that it was actually much more comfortable and safe for both of us if it took its ears out of my mouth, turned its neck the right way up and lifted its back to carry me.

I never competed to any great standard, and I haven't used them myself for years, but it still seems to me that they have their place.
Click to expand...
this is my belief too.
In this kind of retraining situation i prefer them to a martingale or similar which is what other people suggested to me with my last "ears up nose and bog off" one. I could choose whether I wanted them to act or not, and how quickly i wanted them to act, in a way that you just don't have with other "aids of last resort"

Most of the time they were loose on the neck and I rode off the snaffle rein with the horse doing his Classical Learning. but when he forgot how to think i could quickly put him back in learning mode.

When it's something the horse can learn fast if only its go-to habits would hold off for a short period, then I absolutely think that a skilled rider can achieve something easily using draw reins.

I also think when you need them for safety they are a very handy bit of kit.

You do need to know how to use 2 reins independently to get the positive results and perhaps that's overlooked sometimes.
 
I don't tend to use them, though would for safety if I had a horse I needed to use them on.

Though I have revised my opinion that they're only used as a quick fix to get the head in, I've had lessons with an absolute master in using them and the horses went amazingly in them, however, I'm not skilled enough to use them as a schooling aid on my own I needed his input to be able to use them effectively.
 
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