Opinions on head rubbing (horses on people)

[FullThrottle]

I couldn't care less, my little chap is very head shy and does only trust me. he wouldn't try it with anyone else. other people can barely get near his head so i don't mind him rubbing on me at all

 

[JenniferS]

I think it's horrible and just showing bad manners. It hurts and especially when they almost send you flying. And what's stopping the horse doing it to a small child if it knows it's perfectly okay to do it to an adult?

 

[FullThrottle]

I think it's horrible and just showing bad manners. It hurts and especially when they almost send you flying. And what's stopping the horse doing it to a small child if it knows it's perfectly okay to do it to an adult?

like I said in my post my horse is very head shy and doesn't trust anyone else enough to put his head near them!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I certainly don't allow vigorous head-rubbing, it can be dangerous, particularly if the horse is tacked up.
I was shocked when I read a 'Question and Answer' feature in a horsey magazine once when the reader asked how to stop her horse rubbing after a ride and the reply was along the lines of 'He's just having a rub, let him as a reward for working for you'

 

[millitiger]

mine are allowed to rub if i have my hands out for them to itch on- no rubbing heads on human bodies though as i don't like it.

when i get off and Millie goes to rub on me i either do it with my hand or tell her to use her leg.

i absolutely hate people who let their horse maul and rub all over them at home and then go mad at them at shows when they are wearing their posh clothes- like the horse knows not to do it on their show jacket!

 

[SusannaF]

If it's after a ride and they're sweaty under their bridle, I stop them, but then give them a good rub under the noseband/browband instead. I wouldn't want to encourage it. When I was out on a hack in the summer one of the horses rubbed himself strongly on the back of the little girl who'd been riding him –*result, she was thrown off balance, horse trod on her foot, reins everywhere etc.

 

[somethingorother]

I don't like it, but that's just because i don't like being pushed over. If other people want to let their horses i don't care. I understand that he needs a head scratch after he's worked, he's sweaty and uncomfy because i've made him wear a bridle and run around. So i always give him a big head scratch for a few minutes after he's worked. And i love seeing how happy it makes him. He knows it's coming now and waits for me to take the bridle off before poking his head out for a rub.

 

[zefragile]

I don't want to get knocked out, so they are not allowed to rub their head on me. I will give them a decent scratch, though.

 

[amandap]

I used to think head rubbing (hard) was 'bad manners' but now I feel as Tinypony that there are many reasons why horses do it as well as many ways they do it. Horses imo are only 'bad mannered' when humans haven't trained them in what is and is not acceptable. 'Manners' if you call it that have to be taught, horses aren't born with a manual of 'human' in their heads. Also each relationship with a horse is so individual having a blanket rule isn't possible imo.
A few of mine ask for scratches in various ways and for each I have different 'rules' but I do tend to avoid bum scratching and allowing vigorous head rubbing/nudging for obvious reasons.

 

[FestiveBoomBoom]

My pony gets very itchy and sweaty on his head after exercise and he tries to rub on me like a maniac. I honestly don't think he's doing it through bad manners but is genuinely very very itchy! However I still don't like it so will push him away and scratch him with my hand. As soon as i've washed him off and put him in his box he will madly scratch on his haynet for a few seconds

 

[Money Pit]

No. Never. My eldest child weights 60lbs, and her pony weigh over 800lbs; it doesn't make sense to risk an accident and teach bad manners

 

[Llewellyn]

I provide a hand or a rubber curry comb (especially for star rubbing) and brace my arm for a rub. Several horses of mine in the past have got itchy eyes (usually from buttercups which are at the livery yard so I am unable to do anything about them) anyhoo these horses rub their eyes on fence posts or haynets and get all sorts of rubbish in their eyes so part of grooming is they can have a rub against a clean hand.
But rubbing against my body is bad.

 

[Allover]

I look after an older horse, one of his favourite things is having a good rub, and i mean i have to brace myself against a wall while he has a damn good head rub, he loves it, my opinion is that at the age he is at, if he wants to have a good rub then he can. He is perfectly mannered in everything else that i ask of him so i see no problem with it. On the other hand none of my other horses do it and i would not actively encourage it in them.

 

[Theresa_F]

Our two do get itchy heads and I will spend a long time giving them a good scratch. On occasion, I will after removing the bridle, turn my back and allow them to have a gentle rub - but it is on my terms and the key word is they are gentle.

I would not allow them to be rough and push me about or do it without me inviting them to do so as that is bad manners.

Personally I enjoy letting them having a gentle rub on my back and also standing with their head against my chest whilst I itch their itchy places as you can see the pleasure they get from this.

They also love having their bums scratched and again I oblige as I like to give my horses something back in return for the pleasure they give me. Again if they were pushing at me they would be moved away but they often turn their bums at me and wait hopefully.

 

[fburton]

I don't think it has anything to do with what the horse thinks of you as a person (or other entity), so I shy away from using words like 'respect' and 'disrespect'. I don't see why it should have anything to do with dominance or 'pecking order' either.

To me it's just a behaviour. In most cases, it's motivated by itchiness for which rubbing provides relief. I think it's highly implausible that a horse does it to 'get one up on you'.

We may not like a behaviour - in which case we label it as 'rude' or 'cheeky' or showing a lack of manners; or we may accept it. The behaviour isn't itself rude or cheeky; nor is the horse. It's only rude or cheeky because we deem it to be so (or not, as the case may be). Rudeness is in the eye of the beholder.

It's fairer on the horse if we make our mind up whether we are going to tolerate it or not, or maybe allow it under certain circumstances of our choosing that the horse can clearly distinguish (e.g. when we offer a hand for the horse to rub against). An inconsistent response on our part is liable to confuse the horse or even exacerbate the behaviour because we are intermittently reinforcing it. Better to set clear boundaries and stick to them.

 

[Cedars]

It is a dominant thing - if you watch my two horses in the field, dominant mare will walk up to Puzzle and rub against her til the cows came home, but Puzzle NEVER rubs against the dominant mare or anyone and is always super itchy when I give her a scratch.

 

[NicoleS_007]

My horse would itch his head off me after a ride, usually. I didnt mind as it saved the bridle from being scratched on a wall!! And he was super cute and was never bargy. I would tolerate ot from a bargy horse as i think it would make things worse.

 

[fburton]

It is a dominant thing - if you watch my two horses in the field, dominant mare will walk up to Puzzle and rub against her til the cows came home, but Puzzle NEVER rubs against the dominant mare or anyone and is always super itchy when I give her a scratch.

Are they friends?

 

[SVMel]

Oh! Mine has always done this. As soon as I get off and he would knock me off my feet if I let him. And I had to change his bit because it was a full cheek snaffle and it got caught up in my hat strap once and nearly knocked me off my feet. I didn't realise that it was the height of disrespect and bad manners. Oh!!! I am quite shocked at how this is absolutely not allowed (not shocked in a mardy way but genuinely surprised).

Erm - I've had him 8 years now. How do I stop him doing it without falling out with him every single day?

It's not necessarily the height of disrespect and bad manners. That is just some peoples opinion. Not right, or wrong.

fwiw, all four of mine are allowed to rub on me after a ride. They are not allowed to do it until the are untacked, then it appears to be the most satisfying enjoyable thing for them. I see it as their reward for the hard work they just did. They don't do it any other time, and don't attempt it. They are well behaved well adjusted animals who have manners. And they get titbits fed by hand when I feel it is appropriate, yet they do not bite.

I judge everything I and my horses do according to the horse's personality and what is happening at that time. This situation is no different. But everyone is entitled to their opinion

 

[kirstyl]

Personally no, I don't allow my horse to rub himself against me at any time. He loves being scratched and rubbed which I will happily do by hand when I say so, not when he fancies! As someone has already said, they can rub themselves more than adequately on a haynet or on the door if they feel the need. my horse gets a good groom and lots of attention every day. It is about us being the more senior partner in the relationship and as flamehead says, the more dominant horse will rub on its companion but generally not the other way round. I feel that if you allow rough head rubbing whenever the horse feels like it, you may inadvertently be encouraging other behaviours to creep in - ie not standing still when required, being pushy when leading etc. only my opinion mind!!

 

[fburton]

It is about us being the more senior partner in the relationship

But is it? ETA: I'm not saying your pov is invalid, just that being 'senior partner' in a relationship doesn't have to be interpreted as being 'higher in the pecking order' or some such. (Not being a horse, and not wanting to be treated as one, or seen as one for competing with them for social status or whatever, I leave matters of dominance to horses themselves and concentrate on getting the behaviours I want.)

and as flamehead says, the more dominant horse will rub on its companion but generally not the other way round.

I'm not convinced, sorry! People have said that it's only the dominant horse who initiates mutual grooming. Other people have reported the opposite - that the dominant 'invites' the subordinate to start grooming first before reciprocating. I have observed both dominant and subordinate initiating mutual grooming. So maybe who starts isn't to do with who is dominant. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

I feel that if you allow rough head rubbing whenever the horse feels like it, you may inadvertently be encouraging other behaviours to creep in - ie not standing still when required, being pushy when leading etc.

Or perhaps the kind of person who allows one type of 'bad' (i.e. unwanted) behaviour is liable to allow other kinds of bad behaviour as well?

only my opinion mind!!

Ditto!

 

[Kokopelli]

Its dangerous though! Nipping is natural behaviour and just because its natural doesn't mean I would let my horse nip me because its rude.

How do you not know the horse will not knock out a poor kid? Someone at my yard has a 17.2 tb who does this, I'm 5ft and petite he sent me flying!! This is why I do not tolerate it.

What about when a horse has a leather lunging cavesson on with the metal rings which stick out, how would you like them being pushed into your body with some force??

If a horse wants to scratch they can have a roll or rub on their leg!

 

[fburton]

Its dangerous though!

Potentially, yes! It's definitely a behaviour I would discourage if I wanted a horse that was safe around people in general, including children. And I would always discourage nipping - there's really no reason to allow a horse to nip people (except perhaps if you were training a horse for the movies).

 

[Cedars]

What do you mean are they friends? They're horses! Dotty dominates and tolerates and likes Puzzle and Puzzle likes Dotty but they are of a herd mentality as they're herd animals.....!

And I'm right, I spend hours and hours watching my horses in the field and you're right about mutual grooming as Dotty will initiate and then Puzzle will react BUT Puzzle NEVER EVER is allowed to rub against Dotty. xxxx

 

[Black_Horse_White]

If they could scratch it themselves they would. You know what its like when you have an itch. You have to stop it one way or another.

 

[Jinete12]

My boy always wants to rub his head after having his bridle taken off and I can appreciate that, but I won't let him rub on me. Instead I just rub his face and cheeks with my hand which he loves. It's kind of my reward to him for being ridden as he hates being patted

 

[fburton]

What do you mean are they friends? They're horses! Dotty dominates and tolerates and likes Puzzle and Puzzle likes Dotty but they are of a herd mentality as they're herd animals.....!

Horses can be friends too you know! The fancy term for it is 'affiliative behaviour'. Lucy Rees (zoologist and horse trainer) wrote a great piece in a chapter called "Bullies, leaders and friends" which talks about the differences between these roles in herd life.

And I'm right, I spend hours and hours watching my horses in the field and you're right about mutual grooming as Dotty will initiate and then Puzzle will react BUT Puzzle NEVER EVER is allowed to rub against Dotty. xxxx

Ok, but maybe it's just the arrangement that Dotty and Puzzle have come to? I wouldn't be too quick to state it as a general rule that applies to all horses without watching a lot of horses first. The reason I asked if they were friends is that if they weren't I would be surprised if a subordinate hung around when the dominant came marching up for whatever reason.

P.S. I know I can be argumentative sometimes. I don't intend it to be offensive though - I just enjoy discussing/debating behaviour and its interpretations!

 

[kirstyl]

But is it? ETA: I'm not saying your pov is invalid, just that being 'senior partner' in a relationship doesn't have to be interpreted as being 'higher in the pecking order' or some such. (Not being a horse, and not wanting to be treated as one, or seen as one for competing with them for social status or whatever, I leave matters of dominance to horses themselves and concentrate on getting the behaviours I want.)


I'm not convinced, sorry! People have said that it's only the dominant horse who initiates mutual grooming. Other people have reported the opposite - that the dominant 'invites' the subordinate to start grooming first before reciprocating. I have observed both dominant and subordinate initiating mutual grooming. So maybe who starts isn't to do with who is dominant. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

Or perhaps the kind of person who allows one type of 'bad' (i.e. unwanted) behaviour is liable to allow other kinds of bad behaviour as well?

Ditto!

I agree with much of what you've said fburton! Very interesting subject

As far me being senior partner in me and my horse's relationship, I am not talking about 'dominance' or indeed just the matter of the horse wanting to rub on me. I want my horse to work with me and I love him dearly but he has to accept the rules and the conditions of that relationship, just as he has to with his field companions

 

[flutterby321]

I never let my horse rub his head on me. He's alot bigger, and alot stronger than I am, and I wouldn't want to teach him that it's okay to barge into my personal space and knock me flying! :L I just think it's a bit dangerous to be honest! But maybe I'm just over reacting

 

[Seahorse]

I appear to be in a minority here but I let my horse do it!
He always has an itchy head after he's been ridden, but he knows I have to take his bridle off first then I let him have a lovely rub on me then when he's finished he stands and I put his headcollar on.

I feel it's his reward for being such a good boy. He is not a bargy horse at all, he doesn't knock me over and it's the only time he does it.

I certainly don't think he does it to get one up on me at all! He's a very well mannered horse.