Happyhuntress
Well-Known Member
I hate it. I don't allow it. I just gently push him away and will remonstrate more firmly if it persists.
I appear to be in a minority here but I let my horse do it!
He always has an itchy head after he's been ridden, but he knows I have to take his bridle off first then I let him have a lovely rub on me then when he's finished he stands and I put his headcollar on.
I feel it's his reward for being such a good boy. He is not a bargy horse at all, he doesn't knock me over and it's the only time he does it.
I certainly don't think he does it to get one up on me at all! He's a very well mannered horse.
As you and others (including myself) can attest to, it is perfectly possible to train a horse to rub 'politely' - only when permitted and not too forcefully. Nevertheless, it is still something I would discourage in general - especially with horses that come into contact with and are handled by other people - because there is always a risk that someone might get hurt and/or punish the horse unfairly for an action that was previously allowed.Yep I'm also in the minority, mine all have a good rub, but never get pushy or knock me over.
Ah, dominance, my favorite subject! Sadly for me it seems many take dominance to mean bossy, domineering, forceful and rough as well as I'm IT!As far me being senior partner in me and my horse's relationship, I am not talking about 'dominance' or indeed just the matter of the horse wanting to rub on me.
You'll have to say something I disagree with first, amandap!Anyway, I'm waffling and of course it's never as simple as the example I've given! Just wanted to set fburton off talking again.
Since every horse I have had has felt the need to do this in some way and clearly from all the posts ,it is not abnormal. HOW CAN IT BE RUDE, the horse is behaving naturaly, curb it a bit if you are frightend,but dont blame the horse.How can a natural equine reaction be rude or disrespectfull.No wonder so many horses have hang ups and problems.
Since every horse I have had has felt the need to do this in some way and clearly from all the posts ,it is not abnormal. HOW CAN IT BE RUDE, the horse is behaving naturaly, curb it a bit if you are frightend,but dont blame the horse.How can a natural equine reaction be rude or disrespectfull.No wonder so many horses have hang ups and problems.
SNAP! I have no problem with it.... I've worked them hard, they have a sweaty head, I jump off and if they go to rub I give them my back as a post!... Never had a problem with a horse who then thinks he is "leader"!?!?!?
Darn it!You'll have to say something I disagree with first, amandap!
I think horses only do/behave how they've been taught or as they wish when there are no rules, consistancy or safety. So I don't think horses take the mick like human's do/can ie. with intent to mock, embarrass or be bloody minded. I believe horses just behave like horses and if they behave as we don't wish we (me and or previous humans) haven't taught them our rules and ettiquette effectively. To me blaming the horse for doing something 'on purpose' to annoy or get at us is absolving ourselves of the responsibility of understanding what is going on and actually dealing with it. If we want to be 'leaders' then we have to be leaders in actions not just in our heads.Yay
Although I think it depends on the horse, I suppose some horses would take the mick...
Ah, dominance, my favorite subject! Sadly for me it seems many take dominance to mean bossy, domineering, forceful and rough as well as I'm IT!
To me dominance in the above sense doesn't come into most of our 'training' of our horses which is what we are doing 90% of the time I estimate.
Many seem to equate dominance with aggression only but imo it can come out of fear and insecurity or rather attempts to dominate (as above) can and often do especially where humans are concerned. A classic example is the human who hits their horse when it bucks... the human is trying to get the horse to submit totally to it's will by punishment in the form of pain.
You can substitude knock human hard with head in a rub for buck seeing as that is the theme of this thread.
So why does the human do this? I suggest that some do it out of fear, shock, anger, no plan for this behaviour etc. I doubt many do it in a considered and 'correct' in behavioural terms way as punishment to reduce a behaviour.
Imo the problem with this approach is that there is no attempt to understand why the horse bucked which is how imo we should aproach this stuff ie. with a question.
Anyway, I'm waffling and of course it's never as simple as the example I've given! Just wanted to set fburton off talking again.
I did understand that. Perhaps I shouldn't have quoted you but it was that word dominance that attracted me! It's taken me a long time and quite a bit of heart ache to see that I don't/didn't see dominance in the same way as many do. It took me quite a while to understand that the meaning I described above was what peeps were referring to. I am a bit slow and in my own little world...I agree with you entirely. I did say I am NOT talking about dominance!
I did understand that. Perhaps I shouldn't have quoted you but it was that word dominance that attracted me! It's taken me a long time and quite a bit of heart ache to see that I don't/didn't see dominance in the same way as many do. It took me quite a while to understand that the meaning I described above was what peeps were referring to. I am a bit slow and in my own little world...
To me it's just a behaviour. In most cases, it's motivated by itchiness for which rubbing provides relief. I think it's highly implausible that a horse does it to 'get one up on you'.
As far me being senior partner in me and my horse's relationship, I am not talking about 'dominance' or indeed just the matter of the horse wanting to rub on me. I want my horse to work with me and I love him dearly but he has to accept the rules and the conditions of that relationship, just as he has to with his field companions
I wont tolerate full on, knocking you sideways head rubs, however I dont mind if they just knock in to me briefly to say "aaaah mummy itchy here!". I will however brace myself against rubbing if they just want to rub against my hand and I can spend HOURS itching Puzzle all over. xxxx
As long as it is something they ask for rather than 'take' or, even better, something you 'offer' then I don't view it as disrespectful. Mutual grooming happens with herd leaders. It happens on their terms but it definitely happens.
SNAP! I have no problem with it.... I've worked them hard, they have a sweaty head, I jump off and if they go to rub I give them my back as a post!... Never had a problem with a horse who then thinks he is "leader"!?!?!?
I was commenting in general, not replying specifically to you. Sorry if you got the impression I was misquoting you.Well if you are directly replying to my OP,
Glad you think so too. What prompted my comment about what motivates a horse to rub was mention of 'disrespect'. Often it's hard to tell what people mean exactly when they use that word (or its opposite) because it can interpreted in different ways. One way has to do with dominance (or 'leadership'). That is quite a common viewpoint, as other posts in this thread show. Since being dominant may be equated to being of higher rank, one possible motivation for head-rubbing - or any unwanted behaviour that's considered 'pushy' - is that the horse is seeking to express dominance over or be more dominant to the human - hence 'getting one up on you'. However, it's not an explanation I personally find plausible.I never once mentioned the horse 'getting one up on you' as that is quite ridiculous, nor do i think anyone else did.