Opinions on my horses feet please

[sbw]

I am thinking about going barefoot with my 7/8tb and would like some opinions on his feet and if this is a possibilty? (farrier says he wouldn't cope)

Photos were taken in the summer but are the only ones I have of him freshly shod, sorry they are huge!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

That near fore! Ow ow ow!

No heel support and the heel is so under-run with lots of flare. Off fore not much better. This is not a good example of shoeing at all.

TB's are quite capable of being unshod/barefoot. I wouldn't hesitate taking the shoes off. I would also check his diet (it should be low sugar and high fibre) and get a new farrier or trimmer.

 

[cptrayes]

His feet will improve immensely if you take his shoes off.

He might need boots for a while to keep up with his workload if you don't want to have to wait, otherwise I can't see any reason why he can't do it, and a lot of reasons why he should!


Does he always alternately point a front foot??? That's a big sign of heel pain.

Take a look at the front-on photo - see how tight the very top of his foot is? That's how his foot wants to grow, but the shoes won't let it and it spreads from 1/2 inch below the coronet.

I would also find someone else to trim, your current farrier has a vested interest in him failing.

 

[LucyPriory]

Definitely check diet. There are lots of little event lines which may be symptomatic of dietary issues.

Hooves are flared and run forward. I suspect the soles are thin although can't be sure from these photos alone.

Heel is weak and the toe has been rasped extensively so that the water line (inner hoof wall) is exposed.

Whilst this is troubling, none of it is unusual and it is all reversable to a greater or lesser extent depending on your circumstances and the underlying health of the horse.

TB feet can be brilliant bare but it is a good idea to get boots to start with to give you time to deal with the issues that already exist.

 

[sbw]

Thanks for the replies. I'm glad im not imagining it, my farrier has kept telling me that they improved and arent a problem

I would also check his diet (it should be low sugar and high fibre) and get a new farrier or trimmer.

He lives out 24/7 and is fed fast fibre, copra, hi fi original and benevit advance. Is there anything I should be changing?

Does he always alternately point a front foot??? That's a big sign of heel pain.

I'm not sure to be honest but he never stands square.I also find when the ground gets firm he gets backward and at one point was stumbling quite a bit. Does that also sound like foot pain? I have said about this to the farrier, vet & chiro but they all said he was fine.

I would also find someone else to trim, your current farrier has a vested interest in him failing.

I would have thought the same but my other 2 (connermaras) are both already barefoot.

 

[charliejet]

The stumbling does indicate heel pain, my horse had a bad toe first landing and was stumbling due to heel pain and is much improved barefoot and doesnt stumble now. She has other issues and may well end up shod again but I will be keeping a close eye on her. I had the same that Vet and farrier didnt really see the problem as she would trot up 'sound'.

 

[sbw]

Definitely check diet. There are lots of little event lines which may be symptomatic of dietary issues.

The field gets strip grazed and rotated in the summer so i would think thats the cause of the event lines

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Hi fi original is covered in molasses. I saw an improvement in my horses hooves when I cut all molasses from their feed.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

ouchie so under run no where near the 45 degree angle. I would change your farrier or tell him not too leave him like that.

That must be like walking in a pair of high heel shoes where the heels have broken off.

I would have him re balanced asap. That can't be doing his tendons legs any good.

 

[sbw]

Thanks everyone. He does also have thin soles . Current farrier is aware of all the issues but thinks this is the best way to shoe him, he has been shoeing him for nearly 5 years so clearly its not working.

How do I go about finding a good farrier / trimmer. I have looked on the uknhcp website and the only one anywhere near me looks to (my untrained eye) shoe in a similar way?

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

try here


http://www.wcf.org.uk/master_farrier
or here
http://www.trelawneequine.co.uk/trimmer-list/

 

[TwoStroke]

To be fair OP, the farrier can't wave his magic rasp and make unhealthy feet healthy again . The horse needs more heel support, certainly though.

Your diet doesn't sound bad, so I suspect the horse is struggling with sugars in the grass. I would certainly introduce magnesium oxide and yea sacc to help him with that. Reducing the amount of grass he's eating would also probably help.

I can't see you fixing that weak caudal hoof with shoes on, though. That needs stimulation, which means shoes off. Imo it's always a good idea to give a horse at least 3 months out of shoes every year to allow the feet to recover from the damage done by shoes.

 

[sally2]

I have found that magnesium oxide in the diet is good. If the feet are soft with all this wet weather brush on some formaldehyde but keep it of the c band but dont over use it just a couple of times is enough. Remember farriers cant work miracles and it takes time to sort out feet. When i got my latest horse she had been ridden unshod and her back feet were a mess but after discussions with the farrier and a lot of good work her feet are really good now after we returned her to shoes all round. Its a personal thing but i prefer my horses shod and this horse certainly benefited from being shod.

 

[trina1982]

To be fair OP, the farrier can't wave his magic rasp and make unhealthy feet healthy again . The horse needs more heel support, certainly though.

Your diet doesn't sound bad, so I suspect the horse is struggling with sugars in the grass. I would certainly introduce magnesium oxide and yea sacc to help him with that. Reducing the amount of grass he's eating would also probably help.

I can't see you fixing that weak caudal hoof with shoes on, though. That needs stimulation, which means shoes off. Imo it's always a good idea to give a horse at least 3 months out of shoes every year to allow the feet to recover from the damage done by shoes.

I have found that magnesium oxide in the diet is good. If the feet are soft with all this wet weather brush on some formaldehyde but keep it of the c band but dont over use it just a couple of times is enough. Remember farriers cant work miracles and it takes time to sort out feet. When i got my latest horse she had been ridden unshod and her back feet were a mess but after discussions with the farrier and a lot of good work her feet are really good now after we returned her to shoes all round. Its a personal thing but i prefer my horses shod and this horse certainly benefited from being shod.

If you read above, the OP's farrier has been shoeing her horse for nearly 5 years - yes it takes time but i think a new approach may be needed.

 

[KatB]

They're not the best, no, and they do need more heel support, but otherwise the farrier isn't doing a horrendous job. His heels haven't contracted, he just is predisposed to flat feet which "standard" shoes wont help.

I do agree that a couple of months a year without shoes can be very helpful to encourage heels to grow better, but I would also ask your farrier about shoeing with more heel support or wide web shoes if you can't commit 100% to the "lifestyle" they need to succeed being barefoot.

How often is he shod currently?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

brush on some formaldehyde

I never use Keratex because it contains it.

If you get the diet right (please swap to a molasses free chaff) the new horn will cope with all weather conditions without various lotions and potions brushed on.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

KatB - the horse is doing his best to grow a much smaller and less sloping hoof capsule. The under-run heel on the NF is terrible. It's a dreadful shoeing job and the Farrier has put this horse squarely on the path to navicular and tendon problems.

 

[KatB]

Yes they are far from ideal. However, the angle/underrun heel can be down to length of time between shoeing as well as inadequate heel support. I see a lot of horses with feet like this, which the owners scratch their head over until it becomes apparent they only get shod every 6-8 weeks which is just too long for a majority of shod horses!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

This is far too under-run to just be from too long between Farrier visits. I personally feel the the lack of heel support is a very important factor.

OP - whatever the reasons for why the hooves are as they are, the way forward is simple - the shoes need to come off, the diet needs to be looked at and you need to stimulate the hooves (walking down the roads would be great, start with short distances and slowly build up).

 

[Scarlett]

Sadly this 'style' of shoeing seems to have become the norm. To many people are accepting it as being the fault of the horses feet and not the farrier. This is a bad shoeing job, plain and simple. It is not acceptable.

My TB mare had feet like this, I ignored it and left it in the hands of my farrier because he was the professional. She developed soft tissue damage in her front feet from them being so under run and unbalanced. I pulled her shoes and went down the barefoot route. I never looked back and have a sound horse now.

You can go for pads and wedges and all sorts of fancy shoes that will hide the issue and allow you to continue, but the only way to fix it is to correct the angles of the feet themselves. It takes longer and is harder work for owners, but long term, IMO, it's the better option for the horse.

After seeing what happened to my mare I pulled the shoes on my other horses too, I hadn't realised how many problems their feet had been causing them. My 15yo TB has had a new lease of life and is sounder than we ever imagined on his new feet, and my 7yo is a year in and has amazing feet now. Both boys were 'typical' TB's with flat feet, under run heels and thin soles. Not any more!!! We hack, jump, xc, and compete as normal. As do many other barefoot horse owners.

At the end of the day you can always put shoes back on, but right now I think your horse would really benefit long term from some time without shoes to help him develop the feet he should have naturally.

Good luck!

 

[KatB]

Hence my comment of needing more heel support in my first post. If horses are consistently left for a week or two too long, the heels will get worse...no matter how good the support.

OP, barefoot is definitely worth considering. However, please consider if you can manage barefoot without causing discomfort to the horse, because if not, I would be looking at different shoeing options around creating more support for the heel, changing the diet to help support better growth, and shoeing every 4-5 weeks max to start to improve the balance.

 

[Kat]

OP if you are worried about whether your horse will be comfortable without shoes (we don't all have perfect surfaces) then look into hoof boots. You could give your horse three months out of shoes and use hoof boots instead and would probably not be out of pocket. A pair cost about £75 and will last for a year in regular use, more if only used occasionally.

I bought some for my thin soled, flat footed horse and she's been without shoes for six months and in her boots is comfortable ridden on all surfaces. They give great grip on the road compared to shoes and with pads they help the horse develop a thicker sole and a stronger heel. Her feet have improved no end with a good diet and a pair of boots.

 

[TwoStroke]

If you read above, the OP's farrier has been shoeing her horse for nearly 5 years - yes it takes time but i think a new approach may be needed.

If you read above, my point was that this is not something I believe shoeing can correct. Shoeing can't undo flare, and it can't strengthen the caudal hoof.

 

[sbw]

I’m not blaming it all on the farrier as I did buy the horse with awful feet (never again!) and he has tried various things including spells in bar shoes but he has basically said that his feet wont improve because he lives out they are soft from taking on too much water.

Katb he is shod every 6 weeks, 5 weeks when they are growing quickly in spring. He told me to leave it as long as possible, I think this is so he has grown something to nail to?

I will swap the chaff and add the yea sacc. The benevit contains magnesium already, should I still add magnesium oxide?

I have contacted a trimmer as I can't see any benefit in keeping the shoes on. He's too spooky to hack out so (other than the lorry park at shows) is only ridden on grass or a surface and he is forever pulling off the shoes anyway.

I will do as much as I can to help him. I could start to bring him in at night and would create a track system in the field if that will help?

 

[LucyPriory]

Scarlett - I wish there was a 'like' button

 

[TwoStroke]

I’m not blaming it all on the farrier as I did buy the horse with awful feet (never again!) and he has tried various things including spells in bar shoes but he has basically said that his feet wont improve because he lives out they are soft from taking on too much water.

Katb he is shod every 6 weeks, 5 weeks when they are growing quickly in spring. He told me to leave it as long as possible, I think this is so he has grown something to nail to?

I will swap the chaff and add the yea sacc. The benevit contains magnesium already, should I still add magnesium oxide?

I have contacted a trimmer as I can't see any benefit in keeping the shoes on. He's too spooky to hack out so (other than the lorry park at shows) is only ridden on grass or a surface and he is forever pulling off the shoes anyway.

I will do as much as I can to help him. I could start to bring him in at night and would create a track system in the field if that will help?

Extra mag ox is a good idea, especially in spring, as benevit doesn't contain very much.

Tbh, he would probably be better off out at night and in during the day, but I know this isn't always do-able. A track system is great if you can do that, though.

It's a pity he won't hack, as some road work would do him the world of good. Is he sensible enough to lead out in hand?

 

[cptrayes]

Thanks for the replies. I'm glad im not imagining it, my farrier has kept telling me that they improved and arent a problem

They are severely collapsed!

he never stands square.I also find when the ground gets firm he gets backward and at one point was stumbling quite a bit. Does that also sound like foot pain? I have said about this to the farrier, vet & chiro but they all said he was fine.

That is almost certainly heel pain. You will find out within a few weeks if, as I suspect he will, he suddenly starts to stand square for the first time in his life with you.

I would have thought the same but my other 2 (connermaras) are both already barefoot.

My worry is that he has told you that this horse won't do it, and if it does then he has to eat humble pie and accept he is wrong. Subconciously, that's going to have an effect, either on the horse or on you, and I would prefer to see you supported in transitioning what is likely to be one of the more difficult cases by someone who believes in it wholeheartedly. It is hard to take the whole responsibility onto your own shoulders, without having no-one to lean on in the meantime.

 

[sbw]

Extra mag ox is a good idea, especially in spring, as benevit doesn't contain very much.

Tbh, he would probably be better off out at night and in during the day, but I know this isn't always do-able. A track system is great if you can do that, though.

It's a pity he won't hack, as some road work would do him the world of good. Is he sensible enough to lead out in hand?

I can bring him in during the day, thats not a problem but sadly I think its too big a risk leading him on the road as its a 60 mph and apart from being sharp and spooky hes not confident with traffic.

They are severely collapsed!




That is almost certainly heel pain. You will find out within a few weeks if, as I suspect he will, he suddenly starts to stand square for the first time in his life with you.




My worry is that he has told you that this horse won't do it, and if it does then he has to eat humble pie and accept he is wrong. Subconciously, that's going to have an effect, either on the horse or on you, and I would prefer to see you supported in transitioning what is likely to be one of the more difficult cases by someone who believes in it wholeheartedly. It is hard to take the whole responsibility onto your own shoulders, without having no-one to lean on in the meantime.

I have contacted a barefoot trimmer as I am a bit cross that I have kept the shoes on for so long as he had convinced me his feet would completely collapse without them

 

[cptrayes]

I have contacted a barefoot trimmer as I am a bit cross that I have kept the shoes on for so long as he had convinced me his feet would completely collapse without them

You and your horse are so going to prove him wrong

Take lots of photos, so you can remind yourself where you started from.

 

[sbw]

I really hope so cptrayes

Thank you all for the advice. I have taken everything on board and will be looking into the hoof boots and making the necessary changes asap.