Opinions on this 3yo ?

Ok. This horse is 16.2 at 3 years old. he is going to mature at AT LEAST 17.2hh. He is a BIG boy who has put all his effort into growing upwards rather than outwards. Over the next couple of years I'd expect him to fill out more - especially that back end. He is quite cow hocked but I am sure that is a result of being a skinny bean and once that back end fills out, I'd expect that to correct itself. That, combined with his muscular weakness is contributing to his possibly odd looking stifle action but on the whole I like the vid of him. He moves much better than I anticipated and especially given the wet, muddy, slippery surface. he goes better than my 5 year old who, incidently looked a bit like that at 3.

You DON'T need to feed him up... just plenty of hay and VERY light work.

I would highly reccomend a second visit and indeed a vetting - preferably one whereby the vet sees him move on the lunge and in a straight line.

when you do vvisit him again, give the joints a good once over and check for any unusual swelling - especially hocks and stifles as these are most commonly affected by OCD. That said, if you want real peace of mind, a set of xrays on those stifles should only cost a couple of hundred quid - well worth it if it saves you any heartache in the future.

He is not one to rule out but that said, if you really are umming and ahhing about him, he is quite possibly not 'the one'

as for price - I'd go in at about £1k and no more than £1.5k.
 
Tai.Ni.Po.Ni said:
Thanks CS,
It's very promising seing yours in the same situation, I think he is much the same as you're boy, very mature in his head just a bit behind in his body.
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It could just be the mix of breeds as well. My boy is a warmblood, mainly TB with a little less holstein. However, he does not yet seem to have "mixed" He has a big bum and stupidly gangly legs at the moment. Some days his neck looks nice and filled out and others it looks like a long spindly TB neck. however, he is rising 4 and has a lot of growing and filling out to do. Again, if people see photos they would probably find something to criticise but i love him to bits and would never change him and no one ever really knows unless they see the horse in the flesh.
 
The conformation is always important at any age as it will dictate future use. However condition can easily be sorted out I would rather see him a little poor than obese which is a lot harder to sort out.

I was a senior worker in a large horse rescue centre for many years and this is definately not a rescue case in relation to condition but would need building up sensibly.

Always be very cautious of conformation defects in youngsters depending on the discipline you want to use him for.

For example some people do not like a short coupled horse yet I find them to be better jumpers especially at speed classes but it is seen in some circles as being a fault especially with saddle fitting but then an equally long back can have its issues but not in all cases.

In the end if you really like this horse get it vetted so at least you will have a good idea of any potential problems and then make your decision.

Good luck
 
Tai.Ni.Po.Ni said:
Getting worried at the mention of OCD. Sorry to be thick but what is making come to this conclusion ?

Realistically I know I can't afford a perfect youngster with amazing confo so little things don't worry me.
I recently put a post on about vetting and most people advised not to vet an unbroken youngster. ... Hmmm
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Maybe i'm a little overcautious having bought a warmblood weanling when I wasn't 100% sure about the movement that then went on to develop OCD, but from the video he looks to be very stiff behind and nowhere near overtracking - I know the surface is not ideal but if you see how youngsters can shift out in the wet muddy fields It shouldn't be a problem to simply trot a circle on that. Also when he bucks he doesn't kick out which was the first real sign with mine that something was wrong with mine (who incidently was never 'lame', just showed a reluctance tomove through from behind). For his breeding he should move alot better than he does and although he is conformationally weak behind it shouldn't affect his ability to track up at least a little.

In all honesty you could get a super youngster for not alot of money at the minute it really is a buyers market so if I were you I'd keep looking for one that ticks all the boxes not just a few of them! If you really like him ask to see him move loose in the field, or hire an arena and go from there, but whoever told you not to get him vetted was a moron sorry!!
 
FWIW I think he looks like a lovely gangly youngster who has got a fair bit of growing left in him but looks loose and relaxed on a not brilliant surface. You can't judge his conformation based on the photos and video you've posted, but for low level eventing I wouldn't get too hung up as long as there's nothing glaringly offensive. You could have found yourself a diamond in the rough there.

Buying an unbacked youngster like this, there is always an element of unknown, which should be reflected in the price, but as a wise person once told me you can spend thousands on a perfectly made horse and it will go out in the field the next day and break its leg. So really it comes down to do you like him and is he worth/are you prepared to pay what they are asking.
 
Thanks zizz. I can see how you would now be cautious and glad you did something as its something I wouldn't of considered.
I will now be getting him vetted just to be sure. To be honest I thought the same about the market but living is Scotland there is really slim pickings.
But even if I were to se something else I think I would still chose him if all is well with the vetting.
He has the nicest nature, sensible attitude and just what I'm looking for.
 
Tai.Ni.Po.Ni said:
Thanks zizz. I can see how you would now be cautious and glad you did something as its something I wouldn't of considered.
I will now be getting him vetted just to be sure. To be honest I thought the same about the market but living is Scotland there is really slim pickings.
But even if I were to se something else I think I would still chose him if all is well with the vetting.
He has the nicest nature, sensible attitude and just what I'm looking for.
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As long as the money is OK then why not. Just be very, very careful not to feed him hard feed too quickly (yes it was me that thinks he's close in the last picture to being a welfare case). Unfortunately, if he has not had the necessary vitamins and minerals to grow properly then you may have issues later, but even the most beautifully produced 3 year olds (or any age) can still have those. I have a 3 year old atm by Quirifino Quainton out of a Clover Hill mare. Confo wise much better than this chap but not nearly so attractive (bit of a fugly actually), also a mare which devalues for some. In this market if I were to sell now I wouldn't expect any more that £3K so thought this might help you with a comparision.
 
Thanks for reply.
I feel for the money he is offered at it would be a crime not to take a chance with him. And trust me if I thought his welfare was not up to standard I would be first to say :)
 
scarymare said:
Just be very, very careful not to feed him hard feed too quickly (yes it was me that thinks he's close in the last picture to being a welfare case). Unfortunately, if he has not had the necessary vitamins and minerals to grow properly then you may have issues later, .
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While I echo the first part of your advice I would say that it is VERY VERY rare that a youngster wouldn't have had the necessary vits and mins to grow propperly - they would have had to have been stood in a stable with very restricted access to forage for that to occur. We don't give enough credit to what mother nature can actually provide our horses with and too much emphasis is put on supplementing them with super duper feeds that they simply don't need.

My boy was fed a forage only diet with a broad spec vit and min supplement added from 16 months of age when he came to me looking worse than the youngster featured here. from then he grew steadily upwards as well as outwards and is a strapping 17.2hh and still growing 5 year old today - putting on muscle as his workload increases. He has had numerous xrays for various reasons over the years and at no point has the quality of his bone or joints been thrown into question.
 
CBFan said:
While I echo the first part of your advice I would say that it is VERY VERY rare that a youngster wouldn't have had the necessary vits and mins to grow propperly - they would have had to have been stood in a stable with very restricted access to forage for that to occur. We don't give enough credit to what mother nature can actually provide our horses with and too much emphasis is put on supplementing them with super duper feeds that they simply don't need.

My boy was fed a forage only diet with a broad spec vit and min supplement added from 16 months of age when he came to me looking worse than the youngster featured here. from then he grew steadily upwards as well as outwards and is a strapping 17.2hh and still growing 5 year old today - putting on muscle as his workload increases. He has had numerous xrays for various reasons over the years and at no point has the quality of his bone or joints been thrown into question.
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Not all of them are so lucky unfortunately. I brought mine age 18 monts from an auction in a field. The ILPH and RSPCA were in attendance but could not act as horses were not (apparently) in imminent danger of death. There were no supplements and there was no forage. There were about 50 of them in 20 poor acres (it was October). I know that the same happens in yards in Ireland and on the hills in Wales (first hand). I'm not suggesting you live in an Ivory tower but I really don't think its at all rare for youngsters (yes even fatties) to be malnourished.
 
amymay said:
But this would not appear to be the situation here scarymare........................
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Oh, sorry I haven't read the whole thread. I just skimmed it and seemed to pick up bone issues and put 2 and 2 together and doubtless made 46. The OP actually sounds pretty grounded. I do worry that the temprement will change once weight on though, and I am genuninely gobsmacked that apparently this is normal condition for a 3 year old on a growth spurt. It's not like me to be so far out of kilter. However, I am a bit weight sensitive. I'm going to show these pics to some colleagues who are serious professionals (breeders and dealers) and see what they think, be interesting to get their perspective.
 
Tai.Ni.Po.Ni said:
Getting worried at the mention of OCD. Sorry to be thick but what is making come to this conclusion ?

Realistically I know I can't afford a perfect youngster with amazing confo so little things don't worry me.
I recently put a post on about vetting and most people advised not to vet an unbroken youngster. ... Hmmm
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I have all mine vetting even if unbroken! I find it very important
 
scarymare said:
Oh, sorry I haven't read the whole thread. I just skimmed it and seemed to pick up bone issues and put 2 and 2 together and doubtless made 46. The OP actually sounds pretty grounded. I do worry that the temprement will change once weight on though, and I am genuninely gobsmacked that apparently this is normal condition for a 3 year old on a growth spurt. It's not like me to be so far out of kilter. However, I am a bit weight sensitive. I'm going to show these pics to some colleagues who are serious professionals (breeders and dealers) and see what they think, be interesting to get their perspective.
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What exactly do you think is the problem? In the first picture we are shown a health, glossy coated youngster who is neither fat, nor underweight.

The Lunging photo shows this same youngster under some exertion, at which point we'd expect to see a more defined outline. The appearance of a rib is not unexpected.
 
badgermyers said:
I have all mine vetting even if unbroken! I find it very important
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Ditto - Try and get a 2 stage done quickly before you feel attached and make yourself go on the findings. I went to view a lovely 2/3yo and the vet was quite anti him and he didn't pass.
I remember saying 'wish I had my dad here to give me a good talking to' and he said 'well as someone probably your dads age heres some advice.. don't do it'


I didn't but I had spent time with him and really liked him!!
 
Spring Feather said:
Serious professionals? Lol! Never heard that one before. I'm just a professional.
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LOL that did sound numpty - you know what I mean though. People who breed for a living and are known to me - gah, busy week must be time to go home and have a wine. I really do panic if I see a rib on one of mine. Perhaps it is me then? You can get 'drift' from reality if on your own.
 
amymay said:
What exactly do you think is the problem? In the first picture we are shown a health, glossy coated youngster who is neither fat, nor underweight.

The Lunging photo shows this same youngster under some exertion, at which point we'd expect to see a more defined outline. The appearance of a rib is not unexpected.
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Not the ribs though surely? My WB has a massive rib cage and quite often shows them. I was looking more at the condition along the back and shoulder blade/side of chest. I also thought in the last picture it looks pretty dead behind the eyes (can't see vid at work). Dull in coat too. What does this condition score then? Genuninely interested.
 
scarymare said:
Not the ribs though surely? My WB has a massive rib cage and quite often shows them. I was looking more at the condition along the back and shoulder blade/side of chest. I also thought in the last picture it looks pretty dead behind the eyes (can't see vid at work). Dull in coat too. What does this condition score then? Genuninely interested.
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I don't do condition scoring - so have no idea.

This is 3, remember - so muscle will be lacking. However, the neck and shoulders look fine to me (picture 1). The back is poor because of conformation, not condition.

Coat, shiny in picture 1, not picking up the light in the lunging picture and couldn't tell you about the eye, I can't see it well enough.
 
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