Opinions on this 3yo ?

I wonder how many people have bought a horse bred in Ireland (quite a few, I'd warrant)? Most horses here are not overly supplemented (actually, most are not supplemented at all), they run out on pasture, of variable qualities, live out in all weathers, and you'd see a rib on many horses under four. In fact when I used to run a stud farm I WANTED to see a rib on 1/2/3 year olds - it meant they were putting their energy into growing, and OCD lesions are more common on overfed youngstock.
 
I think he's cute -its hard to judge the conformational issues without better pics although I do have reservations about his backend and movement behind, which looks quite short for his build. That might be because of his age and the conditions and any number of reasons but I'd like to see him moving at liberty.his condition really isn't a cause for concern IMO and wouldn't want to see him carry any more.
if you are set, get a vetting-OCD in youngsters is often easily sorted out if you have the money. He's going to take an age to mature though!
 
Scarymare I would expect that if you are used to breeding/dealing professionals (serious or not ;) ) then you would see this horse a little differently.
A youngster bred specifically to sell will be produced very differently. In that circumstance you tend to find an animal which is a bit more produced, would look rounder & probably stronger. With an aim to getting top price.
This is a very different situation from this horse. From reading between the lines from what the OP has said it's a horse that someone has bred for themselves & doesn't have time for. Judging by having it on the market now (notoriously bad time of year for selling youngstock) they aren't out to get a huge profit so it will look a bit more underproduced.
 
I like him...he has something genuine about him imo. I would get a full vet check as how any horse can show how well/bad he actually moves in those conditions is beyond me!
 
If it was cheap, I'd say take a punt. Looks a nice sort. And I rarely vet anything under £2K, but then I am relaxed about these things, and ancient.
 
Sorry but I'm not wild about him. He's very weak behind, does not have a particularly helpful shape neck, a little long in the back and a straight, upright hindleg. He is a touch underweight, but nothing to panic about. On the lunge he has poor flexion of his joints and looks like he might have some sort of pelvis problem. He's also restricted in the shoulder and I agree with others' comments that he's not likely to be comfortable to ride. He also moves quite close in front and does not naturally step well under himself behind. That said he is willing to canter on that wet surface in a sensible, balanced way, which has to be a positive reflection on his attitude.
If you do go ahead, you really should have him two stage vetted at the very least. But, given that he lunges, you'd be sensible to have him five stage vetted.
 
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Faberge said:
Sorry but I'm not wild about him. He's very weak behind, does not have a particularly helpful shape neck, a little long in the back and a straight, upright hindleg. He is a touch underweight, but nothing to panic about. On the lunge he has poor flexion of his joints and looks like he might have some sort of pelvis problem. He's also restricted in the shoulder and I agree with others' comments that he's not likely to be comfortable to ride. He also moves quite close in front and does not naturally step well under himself behind. That said he is willing to canter on that wet surface in a sensible, balanced way, which has to be a positive reflection on his attitude.
If you do go ahead, you really should have him two stage vetted at the very least. But, given that he lunges, you'd be sensible to have him five stage vetted.
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Gosh! You can devine a lot from a 30 second video! You must be quite serious.....
 
Faberge said:
Sorry but I'm not wild about him. He's very weak behind, does not have a particularly helpful shape neck, a little long in the back and a straight, upright hindleg. He is a touch underweight, but nothing to panic about. On the lunge he has poor flexion of his joints and looks like he might have some sort of pelvis problem. He's also restricted in the shoulder and I agree with others' comments that he's not likely to be comfortable to ride. He also moves quite close in front and does not naturally step well under himself behind. That said he is willing to canter on that wet surface in a sensible, balanced way, which has to be a positive reflection on his attitude.
If you do go ahead, you really should have him two stage vetted at the very least. But, given that he lunges, you'd be sensible to have him five stage vetted.
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I was going on pics but now I'm intrigued after this. can someone repost I can't get into it?
 
scarymare said:
LOL that did sound numpty - you know what I mean though. People who breed for a living and are known to me - gah, busy week must be time to go home and have a wine. I really do panic if I see a rib on one of mine. Perhaps it is me then? You can get 'drift' from reality if on your own.
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Lol that's okay. It made me smile that's all :) Yes I think you've hit the nail on the head. Lots of people see their own one or two youngsters and maybe a couple of friends youngsters at times but when you see lots of them day in day out you get used to seeing all sorts of different sizes and shapes. Some do grow in the oddest fashion; heck I have one right now hidden out back who won't be seeing ANYONE for at least another year, such is his gangliness! :eek: As to ribs showing, well on the lunge on a turn, it would be expected. Ribs fully on view whilst standing for confo shot not so much but it's quite acceptable to see that last few ribs in a young horse who still has a ton of growing to do. The OPs possible purchase is going to be BIG and these types very often look out of proportion at various stages in their development.

OP you sound like a non-silly person, you have seen and met the horse in the flesh, you had an experienced friend with you also so you are the best judge of this horse. The photos are not good, the video is better than I was expecting to be honest and if you feel that this horse may be the one for you then take it further. More of us have liked him than not :) and I think it's worth you taking a second look. (Would ask to see him lunged on a better surface though, poor lad, can't expect the best from a horse under those conditions, let alone expect it to track up)
 
My friends youngster got OCD but he was fed on a very high protein diet so could be why. He doesn't look that bad to me, and for a cheap youngster you'll be lucky to find something perfect. If he's got the right attitude and you like him that's what matters. It's really hard to tell either way from the vid how he's moving. Remember Robert Whitakers horse Finbar? I may be wrong but didn't he have interesting conformation...
 
scarymare said:
Not all of them are so lucky unfortunately. I brought mine age 18 monts from an auction in a field. The ILPH and RSPCA were in attendance but could not act as horses were not (apparently) in imminent danger of death. There were no supplements and there was no forage. There were about 50 of them in 20 poor acres (it was October). I know that the same happens in yards in Ireland and on the hills in Wales (first hand). I'm not suggesting you live in an Ivory tower but I really don't think its at all rare for youngsters (yes even fatties) to be malnourished.
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Ok... that is pretty much what I was describing when I said 'stood in a stable with very restricted access to forage'.... I couldn't possibly cover all circumstances in my statement... maybe I should have added a caveat.

there's malnourishment and there's malnourishment. Horses on the hills in wales DO have access to food MOST of the time - it is only in the harshest bits of winter when the ground is snow covered that they are at risk and may suffer growth abnormalities as a consequence... as would any wild animal. I am however talking about domesticated horses and pointing out that unless they are kept in a particularly cruel manner, a basic forage only diet should be quite adequate for their growing needs.

The second part of my response was merely reinforcing this by saying that even with a very simple diet a youngester can grow into a strong, healthy young horse.
 
Conformation is a guide, not a guarentee........MANY top horses have less than ideal conformation: many correct horses go wrong/are never any good at their job.
 
Echo that the pre-purchase vetting is mandatory, regardless of age or price there is no such thing as a free horse and being saddled with someone else's (potentially expensive) problems or a horse you cannot ride is no fun. In the past 2 years of looking for a young horse, I had 4 unbacked young horses fail the vet inspection, despite no obvious conformation, movement or condition problems upon viewing (i looked at loads & ended up changing tack & bought a backed 6yo from Ireland who sailed through the vetting!!!).

It's difficult from pictures or even videos to assess him, if you like him & he has a nice temperament, get him vetted before you fall even more in love with him. Some things that the vet picks up can be minor but can help in negotiating price. Like someone else said, try to be there if you can, if not make sure your vet knows to phone you (even throughout the vetting) to discuss their findings and opinion. Be clear up front what you want to do with the horse, the demands of low level eventing are significantly different to 3 day eventing. Equine vets in particular know which horses to walk away from and which may have manageable or corrective issues - at the very least you will be able to make an informed decision. Also, make sure you get blood taken when he gets vetted, even youngsters can be given something to mask a grumbling pain or take the edge off them.

I wish you the best of luck, dont panic about his condition, from pics he just looks like a baby horse who is growing into a big horse!!

Keep us updated OP!:)
 
ridefast said:
My friends youngster got OCD but he was fed on a very high protein diet so could be why. He doesn't look that bad to me, and for a cheap youngster you'll be lucky to find something perfect. If he's got the right attitude and you like him that's what matters. It's really hard to tell either way from the vid how he's moving. Remember Robert Whitakers horse Finbar? I may be wrong but didn't he have interesting conformation...
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I had a filly (very closely related to my gelding) who developed OCD as a weanling. She was fed a very high protein diet and grew very tall VERY fast. My gelding was fed a very low protein diet and grew much steadier and DIDN'T develop OCD. I am in no doubt at all that the high protein contributed to my filly's extreme growth rate.
 
I think he looks very sweet and seems a sensible boy from the limited info/video. Looking ahead and seeing him as a full up boy I think he will be a stunner. Off side fore gave me some concern in the video and the weak back end that has been mentioned but with time, patience and a slow steady approach he may well be a solid pone of a lifetime. Who knows? Point is you like him, can you afford to take the risk? If so, get it vetted and take the vets advice, if he goes through with no majors then what more can you ask.

He is a pretty boy!
 
OCD can also be caused by a deficiency in vitamins in minerals. It's not really the "protein" but the carbs. Hence why people came up with balancers. I hate them but not because of the high protein but rather the source of protein, soya. Look it's a whole big thing. And again, protein is accumulative. Most horses and even growing youngsters would be fine on good haylage with a vit and min supp, not balancer. My 2 almost 3 YO gets adlib haylage at the moment when in at night. She is fed a handful of speedie beet, handful of oats, half a cup of linseed, mag, and a vit and min supp. She is in great condition. The SP, oats, and linseed is twice a day. My now 6yo was x-rayed as a 4yo
 
I think he is really lovely! Of course he's going to be gangly (almost like a great dane puppy :D ). He just needs to grow into himself and I think you'll have a lovely horse on your hands :)
 
Grrr, hate hitting the wrong button. Anyway no signs of OCD on the rads. I suspect my 2yo will be much the same. Never any cause for worry.

Anyway, it's not as simple as too much protein or a black or white picture. There's a lot more in feed than just the protein count.

Terri
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
Grrr, hate hitting the wrong button. Anyway no signs of OCD on the rads. I suspect my 2yo will be much the same. Never any cause for worry.

Anyway, it's not as simple as too much protein or a black or white picture. There's a lot more in feed than just the protein count.

Terri
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That's interesting and good to know as there were 2 different vets with different opinions with said youngster, one said too much protein, other said genetic. All I know is he was fed A LOT for a youngster of very sugary high protein feeds and nothing to balance it out
 
Not got much experience of warmbloods but I'm another one who is not too concerned about his condition, having had lots of experience with TBs who suddenly go "gangly" and skinny when they put on a growth spurt. I would also go with a vetting - against my nature but just had one I was trying to buy fail a vetting after a highly successful two-week trial and I only had the vetting because there was something about her way of going that I couldn't put my finger on. I was gutted and then paranoid when I came to buy the next one - a two-stage vetting cost me 15% of his purchase price but it is worth it for the peace of mind!
 
Yup, starchy, high carb food can do it. Grazing can be tricky too. FYI, I'm just not a big fan on vets with regards to nutrition. It's not their thing unless they're up with equine nutrition or specialise in this field. So in general they will say it's the food and then recommend you starve and keep on concrete. Well they are growing and do need key vits and mins. Growth needs to be supported, which of course does not mean supporting with loads of food.

Terri
 
TBH if he was cheap enough I would get him. Temperament is often is better than could conformation. Both King William and Opposition Buzz have/had not terribly good confo!
He is being lunged on a very slippy surface which is properly why he is not striding out that well.
I wouldn't back him until summer next year, he wants to do some physical maturing first. :)
 
zizz said:
If it were mine i'd be doing x rays on those stifles, the fact it doen't track up and looks so stiff behind screams OCD to me!!!!!
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I would also be a little concerned about potential future stifle problems, he looks quite straight and weak behind. Hard to tell from pics/video but i would bring this up with the vet if you get as far as having him vetted.
 
If you like him then definitely get him vetted.

I bought my 7/8ths Tb when she was 18 months old & I'd had 3 horses before her fail vettings so I decided to buy her without getting one done :rolleyes:

She has very similar conformation from what can be seen in the pics ( back at the knee, weak back end ) although she doesn't have such upright pasterns.

I love her dearly but I've had nothing but problems with her which are all conformation related and I've been told by 2 vets that if I'd had her vetted initially then I would never have bought her!

I wouldn't change her for the world but my advice would be to get him vetted so you are going into this with your eyes wide open.
 
There's something really appealing about him. I have an ISH x Dutch Warmblood and love her.

I do think his back end looks odd in the video but the surface is crazy and he was very sensible about it all. I also am terrible at anything to do with conformation, movement etc. but that was just my first thought.

If you have a good feeling about him then I would say have him vetted and see what's what! I do think a vetting is worth doing... and this is coming from someone who has bought two horses in the last few years, both without a vetting, and has learnt a lesson - one turned out to have juvenile spavin and will never be right (but is rideable) and my mare does have stiffness in hocks, but nothing too major. I was a twit though and you do sound very level-headed about it all!

Do keep us posted and good luck. :-)
 
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