Opinions on this horse please

A

Aleka81

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Hi all
Please can I have your opinions on this horse
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Thank you in advance
 
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Aleka81 said:
Interesting. From this pic the only comment my vet made was weak behind...but horse is a baby so I'm ok with that.
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I apologise but if you are looking at buying this horse I would be getting a second vet's opinion. Do you have another photo of this horse? Just wondering if he is standing awkwardly that is making the near front look so bent and the hoof - pastern axis so far back.
 
I am not so sure it is a young horse. Looks like legs that have done plenty, low heels, turned in off fore, nr fore tendon looks slightly bowed and as the for hinds - maybe the camera is misleading us.

More pictures needed, front and back with tail out of the way.
 
Horse doesn't look as if it is standing square to the camera as quarters seem to be away from the camera. Big shoulder is hardly an issue and neck is normal for a 4 year old. I would focus more on the lower limbs.
 
I like him! I don't say he is an example of good conformation, but he reminds me of my first eventer, so I am biased. He also was weak behind, stood a bit bent legged, dished like a good 'un on one leg in particular, and took me from never having evented to going clear round my first Novice and never once faulted XC.

As he was a bit weak (and terribly noisy in his wind) I then sold him to a lady who had lost her nerve in PN as it was at that time, I thought he would be better staying at that level. He gave her her confidence back, also took her round her first Novice, then Nov 2 day, then Intermediate, then CCI*...

Not bad for a bent legged, dishy, roarer! He then went on to nanny a teen round her first few events and stayed actively SJ until he was 19!

My point? It all depends what you want him for, how much he is and weather you like him. It also depends on what he is doing now, and if he is fit and working, and still sound.

I do agree he does not look like a show animal!
 
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Red-1 said:
I like him! I don't say he is an example of good conformation, but he reminds me of my first eventer, so I am biased. He also was weak behind, stood a bit bent legged, dished like a good 'un on one leg in particular, and took me from never having evented to going clear round my first Novice and never once faulted XC.

As he was a bit weak (and terribly noisy in his wind) I then sold him to a lady who had lost her nerve in PN as it was at that time, I thought he would be better staying at that level. He gave her her confidence back, also took her round her first Novice, then Nov 2 day, then Intermediate, then CCI*...

Not bad for a bent legged, dishy, roarer! He then went on to nanny a teen round her first few events and stayed actively SJ until he was 19!

My point? It all depends what you want him for, how much he is and weather you like him. It also depends on what he is doing now, and if he is fit and working, and still sound.

I do agree he does not look like a show animal!
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She is a 4 year old from Ireland...
Hunting and a bit of show jumping is what I want her for
 
How old is she? What do you mean by 'baby'?

I think that the photo is deceptive as she doesn't seem to be standing with her weight evenly distributed between her front legs. I would like to see other (better) photos.

The overall impression I get is that she is weak and I don't like her limbs, plus she does seem to have a bowed tendon and under-run heels - just how much work has this 'baby' done?




ETA - OK I've just seen your answer that she's a 4yo. No I wouldn't buy her.
 
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Ignoring his legs, I think he is gorgeous!

The camped out hinds, his heals and front tendons would put me off though, I think. There's too much wrong. If you want a happy hacker then I'd say go for it, but I really can't see him holding up for hunting for too long.
 
Have you seen her in the flesh? That is far better than trying to judge from awkward photos as you can not just look, but feel. I am a big fan of actually getting your hands on their legs.

There have been a few discussions on here recently RE young Irish horses being hunted for the English market. I personally prefer to buy unbacked. If I couldn't do that, then I would go for an older horse that is staying sound doing the level of work that I want.
 
Faracat said:
Have you seen her in the flesh? That is far better than trying to judge from awkward photos as you can not just look, but feel. I am a big fan of actually getting your hands on their legs.

There have been a few discussions on here recently RE young Irish horses being hunted for the English market. I personally prefer to buy unbacked. If I couldn't do that, then I would go for an older horse that is staying sound doing the level of work that I want.
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She's got a small splint which doesn't usually worry me. I don't like unbacked as I haven't done enough of it to be comfortable. This will be the first horse I have had since a child that isn't an ex racehorse.

She has done a 90 in Ireland clear with one down x country and whipped in a little...

Her attitude is delightful and a real poppet. She's a big girl about 16.3hh
 
I don't think the hinds are too bad. A little weak, but that would not bother me with her only being a four year old. The neck is well set on. She is a little straight through the shoulder and I really don't like her front legs. Her forearm is short and cannon bones are long. She is over at the knee (though this doesn't bother me too much). She appears to have an inward pointing right front (looks turned in at the knee so a bad fault unless it is the way she is standing).
 
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Wagtail said:
I don't think the hinds are too bad. A little weak, but that would not bother me with her only being a four year old. The neck is well set on. She is a little straight through the shoulder and I really don't like her front legs. Her forearm is short and cannon bones are long. She is over at the knee (though this doesn't bother me too much). She appears to have an inward pointing right front (looks turned in at the knee so a bad fault unless it is the way she is standing).
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Thank you. This is more what I felt about her... Will have a real look at her knee as this hadn't really jumped out at me when I saw her
 
Wagtail said:
Legs look better in this picture. Does she really need spurs? They are marking her. I wouldn't be using them on a four year old.
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I think this was just for the picture as he rarely ever rides her. He came back and was chucked on for the photo. None of the other pics with the girls on have really ridden her in Spurs
 
I think because she is tied in at the knee it is making her legs look worse than they are, looks a nice type, however her legs would put me off too.
 
Is the tendon bowed or is it the photo?

I don't like the fact that she looks tied in at the knees. Trainability and temperament do count for a lot, but she's big (which doesn't help - big horses do take longer to mature and they are more likely to have soundness issues IME). Buying horses is always a risk, but you need to weigh up the risks that you are taking. Good conformation should - in theory - give the horse a better chance of long term soundness.
 
I'd pass though not just from legs alone. It would be a nono having martingales and spurs and already jumped courses and hunted a bit at 4. I know this is fairly common, but having seen the same similar in early teens and having various soundness issues....I'd pass and either get a nice 6-7 year old just doing the same, or a nice 4 year old just doing a bit of everything (popping a jump but no courses/competing, occasional meet attended cubbing and thinking about an hour or two from new year) quietly and simply and correctly being built up and ridden with no extras needed.

But that's just me and comparing to current 4/5 year old and what we're up to.

Good luck either way :)
 
Throwing in a bit of a curve ball here....when I looked at the first pic I thought, I bet she has a splint. Fast forward through the thread and sure enough you say she does. The reason I thought this could be the case is that there appears to be a twist to her front right leg. Could just be a trick of the camera of course and you may well tell us the splint is on the other leg. And I do know that splints rarely cause a problem and most horses have them....but when they are a problem, believe me they are a bu&&er. So for me, due to personal experience, if a horse had a splint and I thought it could be exacerbated by poor confirmation such that the horse would be susceptible to re-throwing them on a regular basis, that alone would put me off. And I agree with some of the other concerns noted above, but of course no horse is perfect and even those that are close to being so still go lame.
 
And that's a terrible case of toe-first landing too. That suggests issues in itself. It can be improved but you'd need to make some pretty quick changes if you wanted to avoid all kinds of lameness issues.
 
At the risk of revealing my status as a proper eejit, could conformation experts explain what exactly is wrong with the front legs? C'mon folks, it's Christmas; go easy on me ;)
 
Aleka81 said:
Hmm she is supposed to be coming to stay with me for a few days.

Now I don't know what to do....
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Cancel the trial.....you will only fall further in love which will make making a logical, unemotional decision even harder - and this is what the vendor is relying upon. She may have the greatest attitude/temperament in the world but without the conformation to support a sound body that is worth nothing.

As others have said: weak back end and overdeveloped shoulder......you rarely get one without the other as horse will be compensating for not pushing by pulling itself along. Weak second thigh. Toe first landing. HORRENDOUS front legs and doesn't appear to be truly connected in the ridden shot. Also, despite what you say there do appear to be spur marks on the horse's sides.

Wearing a martingale and having cubbed/hunted/jumped courses of jumps would not bother me in the slightest, but no matter how much/how little this horse is on the market for you will be able to find a horse that is more likely to stay sound for hunting than this one. There are no guarantees when buying but all you can do is stack the odds in your favour, unless of course you have loads of money to throw on vets bills and are prepared for the frustration and heartbreak that goes with owning such a horse. I had one such horse years ago; it evented to intermediate and could have gone advanced EASILY if anyone had been able to keep it consistantly sound long enough.

Sorry if above sounds harsh......just hate to see people making the same mistakes.
 
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Bojingles said:
At the risk of revealing my status as a proper eejit, could conformation experts explain what exactly is wrong with the front legs? C'mon folks, it's Christmas; go easy on me ;)
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If you do a google image search of 'horse leg conformation' lots of charts come up showing both ideal conformation and undesirable conformation. This would be a good starting point for you. :)

ETA - I know that these sketches show arabian conformation, but one has points that apply to all riding horses in lower case and the other shows how you should 'divide' the horse into three equal body parts.

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Those who say toe first landing - I can't tell from that photograph as the right front has just picked up and is on its way forward. It will land at least another foot in front of where it is now. Plenty time to extend and for the heel to land first. I am not saying the horse is not showing toe first landing, just saying that I cannot tell whether this is the case from the photograph. If you can tell that from the photograph I am looking at, then you are exceptionally clever.
 
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