Other liveries "borrowed" my lorry. Bit annoyed !

OP I understand your dislike of confrontation I really do but this is something anyone would be livid about, not one person has said 'oh I'm sure it was a misunderstanding' because it wasn't, they have no excuse.

Did you have any missed calls, any voicemails, texts? The fact you were flying that day is completely irrelevant as you would know if they tried to contact you. It is also irrelevant because anyone that could not get in contact with you would think 'oh shame we can't borrow it, can't risk it as no insurance etc, we'll have to hire one' I mean, this at the very LEAST!

I think you really need to write a letter based on facts and present it to them at this meeting. Say what you need to say and what you want in the letter, DO NOT let them talk you into submission, even if they are nice (but stupid, selfish, wreckless, inconsiderate....) ladies.

You don't have to scream at them, you don't have to call them names. All you have to do is make it clear that what they have done is unacceptable on so many levels and they are very lucky you are not taking further action, and tell them what the consequences are going to be.

You need to point out that what they have done is illegal and fraudulent, point out that in the event of an accident they would have been liable for any damage, and that above all they have betrayed your trust, and there is no good reason for that when there are lorries available for hire, and drivers to drive them all over the country.

I would expect as a minimum money for fuel, the going rate for lorry hire and a massive apology, but I would probably go for the check on condition of the vehicle too because well, its that or let the police deal with them.

It will probably make you feel a bit uncomfortable, but please don't let these people get away with it, you need to stand up for yourself somehow.
 
Originally Posted by ROMANY 1959
Have bit bullet and sent both ladies a text message saying need to see them tomorrow and why I want to see them. They are nice ladies - OP stop with the NICE! You are giving me a head-desk moment!, I understand nine out of ten would be lividIncorrect, 10 out of 10 would be livid, but I can't cause ructions Yes, you can! But the bottom line is with their behavior they have caused the ructions , It's not in my nature. The day they went in lorry was the day I was flying so phone was off for more than 16 hours...That is insignificant, it doesn't matter if you were flying or dead, they had no permission and should not have used it - at the very least I would have expected a flipping missed call from them to show they had tried to contact you I was out of contact all that day it is not their lorry, its yours, whichever way they or you try and truss this up they had no right to even consider doing such a thing!. There has to be an explanation or crossed wires God you are nice, trying for sainthood? BS you can't cross wires that flipping much!. I should not have let it go for 5 days without saying something.
Am I making too many excuses!! yes xx Oh we'll I will muster up Dutch courage and confront them in the morning..


Queenbee said:
Good luck, and just remember, if for one second you feel like you are the one apologising - mentally slap yourself, there is absolutely no way they should feel even remotely in the right on this.
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What Queenbee said, exactly. For goodness sake Romany, MAN UP! The normal course of action if someone cannot get hold of the person whose lorry they wish to borrow, is to borrow one from someone else, to hire one, or to make arrangements to wait until they CAN get hold of you. It is utterly irresponsible for them to have lied to the YO in order to get hold of your keys and to STEAL the lorry to take it for a joyride.

STOP BEING A DOORMAT.

The explaination you are seeking, is that they took your lorry without your permission. It wasn't life or death, it wasn't acceptable and there were other perfectly appropriate choices they could have made. End. Of. Story. No dressing it up, no sainthood.

Yes this is a harsh post, you need the kick up the bum!
 
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Completely agree with everything said, I would have to be restrained if it was me, livid wouldn't cover it.

Also if they needed the lorry to pick up a new horse, that kind of requirement surely doesn't come out of the blue. You go see said new horse, come home, make arrangements, we are talking days to make a call asking permission for the box, not just the convenient period when they probably knew you would be flying and uncontactable.

It's all bullshit and you seriously need to find Vanner's bitch switch. Go for the jugular, honest you'll feel so much better....
 
ROMANY 1959 said:
One of them just phoned me and she was so so sorry, she thought other lady had asked me and visa versa.. We are having a meeting in the morning. Oh it's all been such a worry.. She said they did fuel up lorry, and I can't see any damage to it. YO was away for the weekend but assumed they had phoned me!!!
It won't happen again, once bitten ect.
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Oh right, of course, that all makes sense now.... Come on, are you for real!! Wouldn't they check with each other to make sure one had actually asked?? Ad as someone had said, wouldn't they have thanked you profusely on your return?
 
If this was my lorry they had taken.. they would now be under it. How bloody cheeky! Hope you get a damn good apology and reimbursement at the very lest OP.
 
Ok op, consider it like this. These ladies probably had a conversation prior to taking your lorry, about what a mug you were, & how clever they were to save the cost of paying to hire one, & no doubt are laughing now at how gullible you are to believe it was a mix up. Don't let them get away with it.
 
Im beginning to think this is a wind up.

I dont know ANYONE no matter how polite or non-confrontational that wouldnt go postal about this and have balls on platters.

Thinking Im hearing hooves on the birdge and Im the first to defend potential trolls......... :cool:
 
Of COURSE they would, Honey08.

The conversation would have gone like this:

"Shall we borrow Romany's lorry?"

"Yeah, we'd better ask her. I'll do it tonight."

And then it would have gone:

"Did Romany say it was okay to borrow the lorry?"

"Yes she did, isn't she kind, let's get her some flowers to say thanks when she gets back"

And after that it would have gone,

"Hi YO, can we borrow the keys to Romany's lorry please, we have asked for her permission and it's fine".

Somebody is spinning you a yarn, and treating you like a doormat. And you're acting like one :(
 
P.S. WHAT THEY DID WAS ILLEGAL!!!!

"Taking without owners consent - theft act 1968 - section 12" google it!

You need to report it even if you don't persue it as that would give you a record from the police just in case there's a speeding ticket or other!
 
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You need to man up I'm afraid. Of course they seem, 'nice' OP, they are able to nick your lorry and get away from it.

Whether you dislike confrontation or not, this is too far. You've found out about this - what haven't you found out about? It doesn't matter that your phone was off because you were flying. Stop making excuses.

Of course they are sorry, they got found out. Easy to blame the other and say it was all, "crossed wires."

Get the lorry in for a full work up to check all ok. Find out where they went, work out the mileage and charge the cost of the diesel for the trip as wear and tear. Find out how much that trip depreciated your lorry's value and charge it. Bill them for the lot of it and explain that is the consequence of their actions. Charge them for what it would have been to hire your lorry.

Also explain that taking without consent (TWOC) is a criminal offence. They wouldn't have been covered by insurance, which is another offence, or if they took insurance and claimed they had your permission then there's fraud. Plus any licence offences.

I would then make the point that you are considering reporting this to the police. You are hurt and disappointed they have so little respect for you and your property.

Frankly, you are asking for much more if you don't sort this now, and will end up in more confrontation trying to resolve it because you didn't act sooner.

Harsh, but I wouldn't stand for it.
 
christine48 said:
You need to speak to them, they weren't insured to drive it. Thankfully nothing happened. They need to reimburse you for diesel & wear & tear ( going rate is about £1.50 per mile). If they don't agree to this, then I would threaten them with reporting them to the police. Taking a vehicle without the owner's permission and driving without valid insurance.
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^ THIS

& I have to tell you, Id be ALOT more than just a "bit annoyed" - Id be baying for blood :mad:
 
Ok. Took all on board. We are all having a meeting tomorrow . YO was not there that weekend, that I have been assured of, and she has a set of keys cos sometimes has to move my lorry to get others ones out. It's not a wind up at all. It happened and I found out when I got home.. So I will deal with it best I can. I have wrote few things on paper taken from some of your advice. I have often been told I need assertive training, I can't help it though I am the original ostrich with head in sand, then I crawl away to fret cos I've not said anything, those of you with the balls!! Don't know what it can be like to be a wimp.
I never wished this post to go viral.
Thanks for comments .
 
Totally agree with what everyone else has said. OP, I hate confrontation too BUT I would be saying this:

Gingerwitch said:
Ok - tell them you are very dissapointed that they felt they value you so little that they could take advantage of you in this manner. That there are plenty of horse transporters that they could have used. You are embarresed on THEIR behalf of the lies they told the YO, and that they should be prepared for a bill when your lorry has been in for a check in the next few days.
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And yes, I would be rehearsing it in the car on the way over and I would be panicking and probably a bit shaky when I confronted them, but I'd do it. Because taking another person's belongings is NOT ON.

ROMANY 1959 said:
One of them just phoned me and she was so so sorry, she thought other lady had asked me and visa versa.
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No, I'm sorry - I don't believe it. SURELY any decent person would CHECK with the other person whilst making arrangements -e.g. "I'll give R a ring later and text you what she says." or something like "did you ask R?" "No - didn't you?"

They started borrowing small barrows etc. and now they're borrowing your lorry? For a horse which presumably they knew about in advance and therefore could have booked a lorry? They were just too cheap to pay for it by the sounds of things. And if it WAS an emergency, which could be understandable, there's no reason at all for them not to be thanking you profusely for your part in saving said horse. Avoiding the subject for the past few days just waves every red flag I can think of!

Finally:

FfionWinnie said:
I tow trailers for a living and am very experienced at driving large vans etc but I still managed to clip a kerb when I drove a 3.5t box for the first time. If they have only driven cars before they WILL have been burning the clutch and clipping things!
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Same. Driving a 3.5T with horse in it takes practice. Chances are you will make a few mistakes the first time - I drove mine around empty for months before I put a horse in it! Even now, it's battered and it's old but it's MINE for me and MY horses and if something goes wrong I want to know why; if I damage the box I want to know so I can fix it; not wonder what I'm not being told that could have led to potential problems being fixed. (The first time I drove it for instance I clipped the curb :o:o - sounds amusing BUT it cost £150 to replace the tyre as it was damaged.) Obviously they may well be better drivers than me and it might be fine but my (serious) point is that if I hadn't known about that and taken it straight to a garage, the front tyre on the passenger side would have blown the next time I drove the box as I'd damaged it when I scraped it. Wouldn't have been at all funny or silly then.

I'm going to stop now because I think I am just repeating everyone else and I can feel my blood boiling for you, so I'm going to stop and get a glass of wine! OP, I suggest you do the same :p and plan what you're going to say to the ladies you describe as "nice" who would, sadly, probably describe you as a pushover - apologies.
 
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That's the longest post I've ever written!


Good luck tomorrow OP. Just remember, the ONLY time you should apologise is when saying the phrase "I'm sorry, but I don't believe that you both thought the other had asked. I believe that you were taking advantage..."
 
ROMANY 1959 said:
Went on holiday for 2 weeks. Got home to find out , by chance I might say, that two other liveries told yard owner they had permission to use my lorry to go 6 hour round trip to collect a horse. !!! I was very upset to think what may have happened, as its only me and yo and my mate who use it for pony club and hunting.
Was just having conversation about where all fuel goes to and it all came out bout this jolly in my lorry... I don't really know how to approach the lady when I see her, I am one for a quiet life, and don't fuss at all, but this was out of order. I have spoke to YO and she assumed they had spoke to me themselves or she would never have given them the key. YO very sorry about it, I may well have said yes if yO drove, but they drove themselves, and have never driven a lorry b4!!
What would you do? What should I say, ? Can't bear to cause bad feeling on the yard.
It would not have taken much to phone me and ask, yes I was 3000 miles away but it's not really on is it.
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Sorry I would be furious. I would have words with these two. For one thing your insurance would not have covered them in the event of accident. I would give them a bill for the fuel, keep my keys at home in future. This is not on, imagine if thy had caused accident.

Sorry I would not let this go without confronting the 2 guilty party.
 
Get a grip as if your horsebox had been in an accident you would have been liable, as it's you horsebox and your insurance would have been cancelled, so just man up and take them to court because they actually stole your lorry.
 
Ditto report to police for taking without consent. Otherwise you are permitting them to drive your vehicle illegally. Seeming nice is the front con artists like this use to get away with things. Be brave. Stay calm but be firm. Practice the phrase, if I can just finish what I am saying without interruption, thank you.
 
I am with GW. I spend a fortune on my Horsebox. I hate anyone else driving it (which is only mechanic) when he need to plate it.

It is theft and should be treated as such.

Hire of horse box for the day £ 150
wear and tear £ 60
fuel @ £ 1 per mile £ xxxx
taking without permission £ 100
putting other road users at risk £ 100
Total xxxxxxx

I would be using a lot of language some *X* rated
I would be having stern words about taking without permission
I would warn them never ever touch my lorry again or I would report them to police.
Mt keys would be at home in the future not even for YO to use as they ball's ed it up.


Just had another thought!!!! say for example something did happen on the journey to or from their destination like knocking a cyclist off or speed camera photo or they have clipped another vehicle !! and they have not said anything to anyone this could still come and bite you on the bum.

If you do not report it you will be liable, as the fuzz will say well why did you not report it???:mad:
 
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It might have been covered before (it has been a long day and I am not reading 11 pages) but the offence that has been committed is commonly referred to as TWOC (Taking Without Owners Consent). This can apply to any form of vehicle (even a push bike!)

Here is a Wiki link which will help explain it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWOC

A large part is proving the mens rea evidence. But in this case the defendant/livery knew that they did not have permission to take the vehicle and this can be evidenced by the fact she will not have any written consent and both you and the YO would be happy to sign a statement that suggests she had got the keys through deceit.

I would personally hand her a bill for the wear and tear plus fuel used. HMRC approved rate for Cars/Vans (business) is 45p per mile. So you could add a % increase on to that for the size of the vehicle quite legitimately.

Don't threaten her with going to the police if she doesn't pay the bill, as that's blackmail :-)
Just suggest that she should be thankful you are just asking for repayment rather than taking her to court for the costs as well as her having a few blemishes on her driving record! Although you should bear in mind that if it's not reported to the police any speeding points or parking charges etc will be landing on your doormat!
 
ROMANY 1959 said:
We are all having a meeting tomorrow .
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Smile sweetly and tell them its fine, no need to explain to you as they didn't bother asking permission, they can explain to the police - Why they took a vehicle without permission and drove it with no insurance?

Let the cheeky bitches have sleepless nights like you have had. TBH I would have no qualms reporting them, incase there are any speeding/driving offenses/parking fines heading your way. :mad:
 
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I would be asking for fuel money, check you lorry over for damage, and why the hell did the yo give your keys to them without you saying so, she should have called you, what p**s takers.
 
ROMANY 1959 said:
Ok. Took all on board. We are all having a meeting tomorrow . YO was not there that weekend, that I have been assured of, and she has a set of keys cos sometimes has to move my lorry to get others ones out. It's not a wind up at all. It happened and I found out when I got home.. So I will deal with it best I can. I have wrote few things on paper taken from some of your advice. I have often been told I need assertive training, I can't help it though I am the original ostrich with head in sand, then I crawl away to fret cos I've not said anything, those of you with the balls!! Don't know what it can be like to be a wimp.
I never wished this post to go viral.
Thanks for comments .
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If YO was away how did these 'nice' ladies get your keys?????????
 
I think the OP should be commended for screwing up her courage and arranging this meeting. I think we should support and bolster her confidence, not just be outraged on her behalf. Well done, Romany. Remember we're all rooting for you. M
 
There is also another interesting point here, you are now aware that these women committed an offence, and it was joint enterprise, so doesn't matter which one drove. How do you know that they didn't run someone over with your lorry? I think you are going to have to report this to the police, as you now know about it, as otherwise how are you going to deal with any other offences they may have committed, as you were out of the country and presumably can proove this. What a mess these two 'nice' women have made!
 
YorksG said:
There is also another interesting point here, you are now aware that these women committed an offence, and it was joint enterprise, so doesn't matter which one drove. How do you know that they didn't run someone over with your lorry? I think you are going to have to report this to the police, as you now know about it, as otherwise how are you going to deal with any other offences they may have committed, as you were out of the country and presumably can proove this. What a mess these two 'nice' women have made!
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I think this is true, in order to cover yourself maybe you should report it in case they've committed a motoring offence.
 
Look - hit em with the snow shovel - would make you feel much better - if they phone the police to report you for hitting them with the snow shovel, then their TWOC will come out and they will be in even more trouble than you - so they wont phone the police, therefore hit them with the snow shovel twice :D:D:D
 
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