Other liveries interfering on DIY

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MaeBee93

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so to give you some background I've got two mares, one massively fat cob x and the other a tb I've had for a month who came V underweight and cribs so struggles eating out of a hay net. The cob has cost in excess of £10,000 in vets fees this year due to problems with neck and back and therefore also is not fed via a haynet (vets strict advice). I personally like well looked after semi deep litter straw beds as not able to afford to rubber mat the whole stable. Due to time i muck out in the evenings rather than the morning which means some days they look fairly dirty during the day especially if they've been kept in. I'm also 37 weeks pregnant so I'm awake at all early hours and sometimes go to the horses as early as 5 AM and then again in the afternoon about 5-6pm, which means if they are being kept in they can be in for upto 12 hours between hay. (for this they will get hand grazed/walked/turnout in lunge pen) The reasons they stay in are if 1) its been frosty as the cob ends up with a major lami bout 2) its very wet as both horses get MF v easily AND our paddock is to last all year so to avoid poaching they don't go out and last 3) the TB won't go out in V cold days as she's happy to stay in and stuff her face instead which with her current weight is good. TB is on two high fibre no molasses hard feeds per day to help with weight gain at the same time as trying to combat confirmed ulcers. the cob gets a handful of chaff to keep her quiet while tb eats. neither are in work due to pregnancy and the tb has got a long way before she gets touched with tack.

Right so this week we've had terrible rain and found both my stables drip however to fix, the horses need to be out for upto a week so I'm just going to have to get over it and crack on for now. This means my beautiful semi deep litter beds have gone to ***** and I'm going to have to revert back to full muck outs. This week there was also a delay in muck trailer being taken so it is currently full but still got a few more days left before it goes, so I'm digging out a few barrows a day. like I've said its been heavy rain all week so the horses have been in so the beds look terrible until i muck them out again. because both horses get fed hay on the floor they tend to eat it really quick and then eat any good straw they haven't destroyed until the next hay time. during the week I've found my hay supply has been used V quickly and i ran out of hay with the last lot being used on the friday night and another delivery not due until the sunday. Due to rain they couldn't go out again on the saturday and due to having no hay left they were fed hay replacer (plenty of it) the rain stopped and they have been rugged up and thrown out for the night until the hay gets delivered the next morning. I like to keep myself to myself but if anyone was to ask i would be happy to tell them what my plan was. YM is very understanding and trusts that at no point are my horses being starved ect.

So what am I mad about

3 liveries have taken it upon themselves today to turn the tb out in the wet for a few hours at lunch, put haynets up for both horses and give hard feed to the tb and dig up one of my deep litter beds (but then just leave it if you get me), when I walk on the yard call me disgusting, horse abuser, I'm starving the tb ect. I have barely spoken to these people since moving on but they've always give me dagger eyes and the like. Im so mad!!! how dare they! but what do i do? what do i say? what if they continue going in my horses stable. I do things my way and they keep ruining everything.
 
You contradict yourself a bit, so it's hard to offer you advice or solace. You say you go up at 5 am, but don't muck out until 5pm. Does that mean your horses are stood in for 24 hours or for 12 hours without mucking out?
How much turnout are they actually getting per week?
Are your horses in for 12 hours with one Haynet at a time?
What are you feeding the skinny Tb?
Are you addressing the cribbing behaviour, do you think?
Are they being worked at all?
 
I'd go bat poo mental!! I am obsessed with managing my cob properly, but its not to most peoples liking. He has ad lib forage as he eats mainly straw, for a very good reason. I know pretty much the entire yard thinks hes being border line abused. Hes not! If anyone ever dared to feed him anything else forage wise, never mind feed wise I wouldnt be held responsible for my actions!!

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I am always happy to talk to people about his issues and why I do what I do with him, and hear what they think and why. Thats fine, what is not fine is feeding him/turning him out or basically touching him in any shape or form other than a fuss over the door!

I'm moving mine at the end of the month, not because of any failings in the YO or because of other liveries, but just because hes come down with lammi and hes at a riding school. Hes just started kicking at the door everytime he sees someone walk past which tells me he has been fed treats in the past and is now effectively begging. The YO is pretty hot on people patting and feeding treats to liveries, but is niggling at me and I cant risk it.

Honestly, just move and do it now! If you are on a yard where people think its ok to do that then it wont change :(
 
I'd take it up with the YM first. I assume they are on site all the time so should see if someone else was in your stable, feeding or turning out your horses. It's a DIY yard, not a free for all. If someone is doing something they shouldn't be with someone else's horses, the YM or other professional staff should be stepping in and telling them to stop. At the very least, there should be a general reminder given to all liveries that other people's horses are none of their business.

Another reason the YM should be told is that if anything bad happens to your horses because of the actions of another livery that they should have prevented, I would imagine the insurance consequences could be pretty bad. Apart from the welfare issues (and the fact that unwanted meddling is really annoying), these liveries could potentially be putting the yard at financial risk by acting without authority. YM should really know about that.
 
From what you are describing your facilities and management for me are sub optimal.

That said they are your horses to manage as you see fit.

It doesn't surprise me DIY liveries have stepped in, they shouldn't have mind. In this situation I think you need to deal directly with the YO - tell them no livery is to interfere with your horses, if anyone needs to step in it is the YO alone
 
LadySam said:
I'd take it up with the YM first. I assume they are on site all the time so should see if someone else was in your stable, feeding or turning out your horses. It's a DIY yard, not a free for all. If someone is doing something they shouldn't be with someone else's horses, the YM or other professional staff should be stepping in and telling them to stop. At the very least, there should be a general reminder given to all liveries that other people's horses are none of their business.

Another reason the YM should be told is that if anything bad happens to your horses because of the actions of another livery that they should have prevented, I would imagine the insurance consequences could be pretty bad. Apart from the welfare issues (and the fact that unwanted meddling is really annoying), these liveries could potentially be putting the yard at financial risk by acting without authority. YM should really know about that.
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While I agree with the above, I also agree with the quote below, as a YO I would be stepping in as I don't think your care is adequate, chopping and changing routine will contribute towards ulcers, not having enough hay in to feed for 48 hours is not good management, the lack of mucking out would not bother me so much but on my yard if a horse is stood in all day I expect it to have ad lib hay, obviously there are exceptions but yours are not being dieted for welfare reasons.

The other liveries should not interfere but I can see why they have and they did it with the best of intentions.

I am sorry the yard is not really working out for you, as you are pregnant would it not be best to find somewhere more suitable where the turnout is better, the stable does not leak and if they need to come in early or go out later someone can do this for you, keeping them in 24/7 is not ideal especially so early into the winter, most of mine are out all day, the others are still out 24/7 until the weather gets worse.



ihatework said:
From what you are describing your facilities and management for me are sub optimal.

That said they are your horses to manage as you see fit.

It doesn't surprise me DIY liveries have stepped in, they shouldn't have mind. In this situation I think you need to deal directly with the YO - tell them no livery is to interfere with your horses, if anyone needs to step in it is the YO alone
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Sorry but if i were a yo then id be asking you to leave. Horses having no hay for 48hrs is not acceptable, if you run out you go get more, even if it costs you a fortune for a bale or 2 to last.

The not mucking out wouldnt normally be a huge problem, except you are on straw and your roof leaks so your horses will be standing in sodden bedding all day. Also sodden straw is awful for giving off amonia which is very bad for your horses lungs!

The not feeding enough hay during the day would be the biggest problem for me. You are contributing to the ulcer problem, your mare needs adlib haylege, your cob may need restricting to lose weight but feeding adlib 2yr old hay is better than not enough. Also there are options for slowing down greedy pigs that dont include hanging haynets.

So no the other DIYers shouldnt interfere but i can see why they would and if it is bad enough for 3 of them to interfere as a YO id be having words with you
 
I would move. I had the exact same issue on my previous yard because last winter, my horses had to stay inside through the week, out at weekends. At the time, this was the best and safest descion for both myself and my horses as my tb had become dangerous to lead among many other things. I also have a pony who is lamanitic. Liveries would b**** and scream at me, calling me a bad owner, even though they were in a routine, they had hay and were fat as butter. My friend, who was helping me out last winter caught several liveries in my stables with my horses, interferring, even though there was no need. They always had hay, water, two feeds, thick straw beds and a walk/fuss everyday and obviously, they would still be turned out twice a week. It died off when the horses were turned out for summer but i was terrified ready for winter, not just of my tb's dangerous antics but of the nasty liveries. I ended up biting the bullet and moved them and honestly, it has been the best thing i've ever done. I'm now on a small private yard with only two other liveries(4 other horses) and my tb has chilled out completely. Now walks to and from the gield like a dobin and is back to the way he was when we bought him. My only thinking is that the yard itself was stressing him out, causing him to lash out, be terrified and cause drama. I am now able to turn them both out without issue and they are out from 6am-4pm. No matter the routine at my old yard, in 24/7, out 24/7, half and half, he was still dangerous so i'm over the moon. Find yourself a new yard with better people and you will see a dramatic change not only in yourself, but in your horses. Since you are pregnant too, maybe think about getting a sharer or even just a helper for your horses. Good luck!
 
I think you need some short term help, either get a freelance groom, or go assisted DIY, even if you have to move yards. Having a new baby isn't going to make the job any easier, in fact I'd go as far as saying you should consider reducing numbers.
Have you thought about your horse budget after the baby is born?
Good luck with both the horses and the baby. :)
 
While I would also be annoyed at people interfering, your post is a bit confusing and the management of the horses doesn't sound as good as it could be. It reads as though they are standing in a lot, and without forage a lot, both of which are not good for them. I'd want them out a lot more for their own physical and mental health; if the current setup isn't allowing that then I'd be moving.

I have to admire your energy - there's no way I could have dealt with mucking out that late in my pregnancy! Can I ask how you will manage them once baby arrives? I had to have a bit of help at first, and mine are out 24/7 at home! I cannot imagine to do stabled horses at a yard....
 
Other liveries should not interfere but with the care that you describe the YO should.
A skinny TB should not ever run out of hay, other horses should not have longer than 4 hrs without access to forage, if you run out of hay you go get more, YO should sort leak out, horses should be muck out at least twice a day if they have to be in 24hours.
For me keeping a horse in a stable for 24hrs is no different to keeping a dog on a crate for the same amount of time and is not acceptable.
The fact that you are pregnant does not change the fact you have a responsibility of care to the horses however hard it is you need to make sure they are provided for.
 
I don't think your management sounds ideal for them and it sounds like you struggling so in your shoes I would find a different yard with better turnout or get some help with mucking out and general care, or another option is find somewhere they can live out while you are pregnant to take the pressure of?
 
The liverys should not have interfered and I can fully understand why you are annoyed, however, I do find your management for your horses rather odd and I believe there are more efficient ways to deal with the skinny TB. This doesn't mean a livery should have stepped in but to be perfectly honest, if I was a fellow livery, I might have had a quiet word with the YO to voice my concerns.

You are obviously very heavily pregnant and I imagine it must be pretty hard work for you right now and perhaps only going to get harder when baby is born? Perhaps a change of yard might be better- part livery or assisted DIY to help you out?
 
You horse management leads a lot to be desired.
standing in 24/7 is no good for any horse especially if not being worked
hay replacer because you ran out of hay? That's quite poor management.
Sounds like you maybe only muck out once a day? sorry if the horses are in they need doing minimum 2-3 times daily.
I can understand why other liveries are frustrated although it is not their perogative to interfere- they should have contacted ym first.
 
In all fairness, as much as i disagree with liveries interferring as i've had to deal with it myself, you do need to manage your horses slightly better or at least get some help. Your horses need to be mucked out more than once a day if they are standing in all day as that is how horses get canker, stiffness and a multitude of other things. Please, move yards if you cant deal with the interference and get some help, even if it's just someone else popping down once a day to give food and do an extra muckout.
 
The other liveries should have gone to the YO - but it really sounds as though you're not coping.

Ideally, you need to move to a yard where daily turnout can be guaranteed. You need to feed sufficient hay (very poor quality, or even part straw, to the cob) so that they don't run out. If they're ever in 24 hours, they need mucking out twice, with skips outs as required to keep on top of it.

I think you need to consider whether this is doable for you- especially pregnant, and later with a baby. It sounds as though you need regular (daily) assistance, if not part livery, and come to an arrangement so that the YO supplies forage and you don't run out.

Everyone has times in life when they struggle. This is just a time when you're either going to need help, or reconsider whether you can realistically cope with the horses full stop. Best to make changes now rather than waiting until you're really struggling:)
 
Why did you buy another horse, and a skinny Tb at that, going into winter a month before you're due to give birth? Also, looking at some of your other posts, aren't you running a freelance business and also about to start a degree ?

Other liveries are interfering because they're concerned about what they are seeing and are feeling frustrated and helpless and desperate as YO isn't doing anything.
Your current management will, without a doubt, give you big vet bills on top of all this. Your cob has severe arthritis doesn't she? She needs to be out and probably needs some form of medication to help her over winter. A Tb is a supreme athlete and needs turnout too, even if in at night. The cribbing hasn't stopped and there are probably worsening or developing stomach ulcers ..... I think you need to sell up or turn out well rugged with some big round bales in the field. You need to reduce your load at this time in your life and look after yourself.
 
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Achinghips said:
You contradict yourself a bit, so it's hard to offer you advice or solace. You say you go up at 5 am, but don't muck out until 5pm. Does that mean your horses are stood in for 24 hours or for 12 hours without mucking out?
How much turnout are they actually getting per week?
Are your horses in for 12 hours with one Haynet at a time?
What are you feeding the skinny Tb?
Are you addressing the cribbing behaviour, do you think?
Are they being worked at all?
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5am I will feed and turnout if the reasons stated don't prevent me from doing so. If they stay in they get a massive pile of hay re freshed waters but because of time they won't get mucked out until I'm back on the evening about 5pm where they will be fed hayed watered and mucked out. I do have a job and uni to do during the day.

Turnout will depend on the reasons stated some times they can go out from 5-5 one day and other days have to stay in. It's not ideal but that is the best I've got without ruining summer turnout.

As already stated and the reasons why, they both DO NOT get hay nets they get a waist high pile on the floor.

The tb is on two hard feeds per day and a massive pile of hay like previously stated. This post is not discuss my feeding regime as that has been discussed with a vet and a nutritionist.

Addressing the cribbing behaviour? Again not relevant to the post. But yes I am.

Again as stated neither are being worked due to being 37weeks pregnant and the tb being too poor ATM to even consider lunge work.
 
24 hours without mucking out - that's not an acceptable level of care. That's why the beds are a mess. IT takes ten minutes to do a quick muck out on a proper deep litter bed.
Earlier you said they eat their hay wuickly - now you say they dont?
 
conniegirl said:
Sorry but if i were a yo then id be asking you to leave. Horses having no hay for 48hrs is not acceptable, if you run out you go get more, even if it costs you a fortune for a bale or 2 to last.

The not mucking out wouldnt normally be a huge problem, except you are on straw and your roof leaks so your horses will be standing in sodden bedding all day. Also sodden straw is awful for giving off amonia which is very bad for your horses lungs!

The not feeding enough hay during the day would be the biggest problem for me. You are contributing to the ulcer problem, your mare needs adlib haylege, your cob may need restricting to lose weight but feeding adlib 2yr old hay is better than not enough. Also there are options for slowing down greedy pigs that dont include hanging haynets.

So no the other DIYers shouldnt interfere but i can see why they would and if it is bad enough for 3 of them to interfere as a YO id be having words with you
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I'm sorry I think you have missed the point. Neither of these horses have ever been left without hay until one morning where they were given lots of forage replacer in the morning to last the day instead and then turned out that night.

She most certainly will not be getting hay ledge as the vet has said that will make it worse!

Our muck heap has not been emptied for over a week and you cannot physically fit more on so therefore they've been getting skipped out and fresh straw placed on top which by the next evening is looking gross. Plus they were on deep litter beds but when the rain started it was clear I needed to empty the lot start again and do full muck outs each day instead. It would of been done the same night however like stated the muck heap has not been emptied and therefore we have an entire yard of horses with owners who can't muck out as they have nowhere to put their muck.

I am not here to discus my horses feeding regime which has been dictated and managed by a vet and a nutritionist.

By the sounds of it, it's a bloody good job your not a YM or YO as you clearly lack the ability to read and just jump the gun with a rubbish attitude.
 
I'm sorry but it isn't acceptable for a stabled horse not to 'work'. Even if it's as thin as a rake, if it can't go out in a field it needs taking out for a walk like a dog for at least an hour. There is no excuse, I'm afraid, for any horse to be stabled 24 hours a day unless on box rest. You've known for a long time now that you weren't going to be able to ride and you should have made other arrangements to get your horses out of their boxes. I'm not the slightest bit surprised that other liveries are upset with the way you are managing your horses and have interfered.
 
If the TB is running out of hay and eating bedding as you previously stated that pile of hay is not massive enough.

This post was not about nutritional advice no, but it was about other liveries interfering. If your horses are standing in for 24 hours, even only on occasion without being skipped out, even if they were the tidiest of horses I would have interfered too, sorry whatever the situation that is substandard care and if you don't have time to do it then you should pay a freelancer.
 
twiggy2 said:
horses should be muck out at least twice a day if they have to be in 24hours.
For me keeping a horse in a stable for 24hrs is no different to keeping a dog on a crate for the same amount of time and is not acceptable.
The fact that you are pregnant does not change the fact you have a responsibility of care to the horses however hard it is you need to make sure they are provided for.
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Erm...I love you ;) haha I often say to people about keeping horses in using the dog/crate analogy and they often look at me like I'm crazy. Totally totally a million percent agree with everything you have said here.

OP, I know it might be hard but your horses should really be receiving a better level of care, no excuses. If you can't provide for them perhaps it's time to sell or loan? :/
 
D66 said:
I think you need some short term help, either get a freelance groom, or go assisted DIY, even if you have to move yards. Having a new baby isn't going to make the job any easier, in fact I'd go as far as saying you should consider reducing numbers.
Have you thought about your horse budget after the baby is born?
Good luck with both the horses and the baby. :)
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Thanks I've got a group of friends on the yard who I can call for help if I can't get down for anything etc. In fact they gave me the forage replacer for the morning. It's 3 liveries who have been causing havoc with everyone else that's the problem. :-) my budget is fine and have plenty aside to care for my horses and my child (living at home helps 😜) I also have a job and I'm a uni student hence why horses are done so early and late it's just personal circumstance. The horses want for nothing and ideally yes drier land for turnout would make it easier but unfortunately all yards in the area suffer the same problem. Some yards have closed turnout until Feb now 😕
 
MaeBee93 said:
By the sounds of it, it's a bloody good job your not a YM or YO as you clearly lack the ability to read and just jump the gun with a rubbish attitude.
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I totally get where she's coming from and I am a YM and YO...own 6 and have 2 full liveries and 1 DIY, their beds are immaculate, adlib hay, nothing is obese/skinny, everywhere is clean, hygienic and tidy- there is no excuse. No way would I allow someone on my yard that couldnt look after their animals properly. If you can't cope, don't have.
 
Nudibranch said:
While I would also be annoyed at people interfering, your post is a bit confusing and the management of the horses doesn't sound as good as it could be. It reads as though they are standing in a lot, and without forage a lot, both of which are not good for them. I'd want them out a lot more for their own physical and mental health; if the current setup isn't allowing that then I'd be moving.

I have to admire your energy - there's no way I could have dealt with mucking out that late in my pregnancy! Can I ask how you will manage them once baby arrives? I had to have a bit of help at first, and mine are out 24/7 at home! I cannot imagine to do stabled horses at a yard....
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Unfortunately where I am a lot of yards have shut turnout for winter completely :-( I'm on one of the few yards that still have horses out at all. If it's wet they stay in that's the rule and this past week it's rained everyday. However next week could be very different they could be out 12 hours a day next week! I have lots of friends and family who will help me when baby arraives And other liveries I have on speed dial if i have to give a day a miss. Theirs just a group of nasty liveries who like to get involved.
 
TuscanBunnyGirl said:
I totally get where she's coming from and I am a YM and YO...own 6 and have 2 full liveries and 1 DIY, their beds are immaculate, adlib hay, nothing is obese/skinny, everywhere is clean, hygienic and tidy- there is no excuse. No way would I allow someone on my yard that couldnt look after their animals properly. If you can't cope, don't have.
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Until my stables leaked in the rain my beds were perfect. Both horses are on Ad lib hay morning and night apart from one morning where they got forage replacer. I am on one of the only yards in my area that even has turnout available because of the wet. The skinny tb was taken on a month ago and was absolutely skin and bone however has put weight in since with help from vet....what's your problem. No one has said I can't cope.
 
MaeBee93 said:
Thanks I've got a group of friends on the yard who I can call for help if I can't get down for anything etc. In fact they gave me the forage replacer for the morning. It's 3 liveries who have been causing havoc with everyone else that's the problem. :-) my budget is fine and have plenty aside to care for my horses and my child (living at home helps ��) I also have a job and I'm a uni student hence why horses are done so early and late it's just personal circumstance. The horses want for nothing and ideally yes drier land for turnout would make it easier but unfortunately all yards in the area suffer the same problem. Some yards have closed turnout until Feb now ��
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Your horses want for nothing? They want for movement outside their stables. They want for an uninterrupted supply of hay. They want for morning mucking out and are standing in their own faeces all day when they are in.

I'm sorry, but unless you are a troll you are fooling yourself.
 
Quite, how do they want for nothing when they live in their own **** for 24 hours straight and go without hay for 3 days? you seem to have strange ideas about wanting for nothing and what is adequate basic horse care. If you have people that can help you at as they say, get them to skip out on the days you cannot do them until the afternoon.
 
ester said:
If the TB is running out of hay and eating bedding as you previously stated that pile of hay is not massive enough.

This post was not about nutritional advice no, but it was about other liveries interfering. If your horses are standing in for 24 hours, even only on occasion without being skipped out, even if they were the tidiest of horses I would have interfered too, sorry whatever the situation that is substandard care and if you don't have time to do it then you should pay a freelancer.
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On no other Ocasion has either horse ran out of hay night or day. A delivery of hay was delayed from one morning to the next so they were fed forage replacer and when they finished it they were turned out for the night as I had (along with a few other liveries) no choice. YM agreed it was fine in the circumstances. The muck heap has not been emptied and is a brick wall of crap that even climbing on won't cure so again along with other liveries we have not been able to muck out properly however I also have a leaky stable which has made it worse.
 
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