Out of line Pelvis, Now slightly lame? Advice? Causes?

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MJ_1993

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Hi, Recently my horse seemed a little stiff, so i got a chiropractor out after some very good advice from YO.

Turns out his pelvis was out and his atlas was way out.

So these were sorted on Wednesday, light lunge thursday, good lunge friday, absolutely fine! Even so much happier and back to his cheeky self.

I ride him this morning and he was perfect in walk, loose, supple, not trying to run away, pop him in trot and the problems are exactly the same as they were before, pulling in, running away, ect. Called my sister out to watch him and she said he looked lame behind.
Could this be related? what could have happened in the time i was on him?
I am just so defeated right now, every time we seem to fix something, something else goes wrong!
 
Was the Chiropractor there with consent from your vet? If not it might be worth getting a vet approved Physio to look at him?
 
There's no way I would have lunged for at least two days after treatment. The muscles need time to readjust. If your horse was really bad, then best just to walk out in hand for a week before doing anything else.
 
Agree with above lunging after treatment is normally not reccomended we always give next day off then straight lines for a few days (min 2 days) lunging usually not done for a week- I imagine whatever the chiro did has been undone by the lunging and lack of advice from them- I would likely look at a different professional out!
 
How can the pelvis be out of line. Unless it's broken. Sometimes I think some of these 'back people' just make up stuff to justify the huges sums they charge for basically nothing. If your horse is lame call the vet. They will assess and recommend a treatment plan.
 
KautoStar1 said:
How can the pelvis be out of line. Unless it's broken. Sometimes I think some of these 'back people' just make up stuff to justify the huges sums they charge for basically nothing. If your horse is lame call the vet. They will assess and recommend a treatment plan.
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Amen!

Also if the pelvis was "out" I very much doubt a human could put it back "in".

Fwiw I do use Physio's for my horses, however I realise there are limits to what they can do :)
 
I would say that there is an underlying issue and the pelvis has been OUT OF LINE (not "out" as in broken) as there has been some muscle spasm due to the horse compensating for another issue.

Once you have cleared up the compensation that he had made to keep himself sound he is now lame.

I would call the vet now, and have him properly diagnosed. I would take him to the vet hospital for a work up. It is often cheaper and best in the long run to do it right. I would not call the Chiro back out to mask any problems, but get the vet ASAP.
 
KautoStar1 said:
How can the pelvis be out of line. Unless it's broken. Sometimes I think some of these 'back people' just make up stuff to justify the huges sums they charge for basically nothing. If your horse is lame call the vet. They will assess and recommend a treatment plan.
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exactly what is it with back people saying this rubbish if his now lame only option is a vet they may recommend a physio if they think that's what he needs, you can't get the chiro back out now his lame they are not supposed to treat anything that's lame.
 
OP by pelvis out do you mean it had become unlevel? My mare has had a problem with her pelvis with dropping and becoming unlevel several times over the last time. I can always tell as she starts to nod slightly. As others have said I always give her 24 - 48 hours off after a chiropractor (McTimoney) session, Suggest you get back in touch with your chiro and discuss treatment (my girl is 5 weeks in a 8 week rehab program) and possibly get a vet in if the problem persists.
 
The chiropractor should not be treating without vets permission. You need a vet out to diagnose and decide on treatment
 
Bunnymare said:
OP by pelvis out do you mean it had become unlevel? My mare has had a problem with her pelvis with dropping and becoming unlevel several times over the last time. I can always tell as she starts to nod slightly. As others have said I always give her 24 - 48 hours off after a chiropractor (McTimoney) session, Suggest you get back in touch with your chiro and discuss treatment (my girl is 5 weeks in a 8 week rehab program) and possibly get a vet in if the problem persists.
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The chiro should not be treating a lame horse without the vet being involved first to diagnose the problem, if a problem is persistent than the chiro should not continue to treat but should refer back to the vet, your chiro is probably treating the symptoms not the root cause which is why your horse continues to go lame, I would not be using someone who fails to get the vet involved when a horse is not responding properly to treatment, a pelvis becoming unlevel is nearly always due to something going on elsewhere.
 
OP am I right in understanding. The horse was fine until the chiropractic treatment and after a few days after he/she went lame. I would also get the vet out but also show the vet the chiropractors report. as someone above said, he/she could have been misaligned through compensatory muscle tension which now everything is back in alignment the horse dis showing up lame as he can't compensate as easily. I too would not lunge the day after a treatment ordinarily and it is worth contacting the chiropractor and vet and ask them to talk to each other as well. Please get the vet involved for a lameness work up.
 
Dizzydancer said:
Agree with above lunging after treatment is normally not reccomended we always give next day off then straight lines for a few days (min 2 days) lunging usually not done for a week- I imagine whatever the chiro did has been undone by the lunging and lack of advice from them- I would likely look at a different professional out!
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Thankyou for replying. Unfortunately, i was just doing as i was told to do =(
 
Bunnymare said:
OP by pelvis out do you mean it had become unlevel? My mare has had a problem with her pelvis with dropping and becoming unlevel several times over the last time. I can always tell as she starts to nod slightly. As others have said I always give her 24 - 48 hours off after a chiropractor (McTimoney) session, Suggest you get back in touch with your chiro and discuss treatment (my girl is 5 weeks in a 8 week rehab program) and possibly get a vet in if the problem persists.
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Thanks, yes, Maybe 'unelvel' was a better way of putting it!
 
Rocky01 said:
OP am I right in understanding. The horse was fine until the chiropractic treatment and after a few days after he/she went lame. I would also get the vet out but also show the vet the chiropractors report. as someone above said, he/she could have been misaligned through compensatory muscle tension which now everything is back in alignment the horse dis showing up lame as he can't compensate as easily. I too would not lunge the day after a treatment ordinarily and it is worth contacting the chiropractor and vet and ask them to talk to each other as well. Please get the vet involved for a lameness work up.
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I wouldn't say he was fine, i did call the Chiropractor for a reason. He was running away from me when ridden and it gradually got worse, i took him to a show and the judge passed comment on that he looked a little stiff behind, but yes, four days later he has gone lame. Thankyou for the advice.
 
KautoStar1 said:
How can the pelvis be out of line. Unless it's broken. Sometimes I think some of these 'back people' just make up stuff to justify the huges sums they charge for basically nothing. If your horse is lame call the vet. They will assess and recommend a treatment plan.
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Don't agree with this, my horse was heavy on the left rein, going along the road and in the school with her head set resisting any shape of bending. Trainer said I see what you mean about horse leaning on the left rein and get Chiro out, which I did the next day, I held horse and with A quick *CRACK* and work on pelvis and it was done, and next day trainer said she was back to normal and bending and flexing. I too have Chiro who cracks my neck and back and I feel and see the difference so why not a horse.
 
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Dizzydancer said:
Agree with above lunging after treatment is normally not reccomended we always give next day off then straight lines for a few days (min 2 days) lunging usually not done for a week- I imagine whatever the chiro did has been undone by the lunging and lack of advice from them- I would likely look at a different professional out!
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I used to give a day off or so, but the brother of my last chiro who is one also said return to normal but says schooling etc not lunging
 
TYSSANDI said:
Don't agree with this, my horse was heavy on the left rein, going along the road and in the school with her head set resisting any shape of bending. Trainer said I see what you mean about horse leaning on the left rein and get Chiro out, which I did the next day, I held horse and with A quick *CRACK* and work on pelvis and it was done, and next day trainer said she was back to normal and bending and flexing. I too have Chiro who cracks my neck and back and I feel and see the difference so why not a horse.
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Study the skeleton of a horse and your question will be answered.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Study the skeleton of a horse and your question will be answered.
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I never asked a question so do not need it answered, thank you all the same and do not want to study a skeleton because you say so. Maybe I should shoot a freinds horse and do an autopsy on it :rolleyes:!!!!!



I Have had enough Chiro on myself to know what they do and what they achieve by their work.
 
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With the best will in the world Tyssandi - we are horses are not the same skeletal structure at all. A human can apply enough force to another human skeleton to make a difference. And we are more or less the same size so you can use positioning to get the right level etc.

No human is ever going to be able to apply enough force to an animal at least 10 times their size. Let alone one with the locking musculature that a horse has.

I am fan of more or less anything any human can do for my back - having broken it in a fall over a decade ago I live in fairly constant pain. And I am also a fan of what my vet physio can do for my horse. But an equine chiro will not "crack" a horse the way a human one does another human. There really is no comparison. Threatening to shoot your friends horse isn't going to chnage the laws of physics I'm afraid.
 
My assumption would be that the horse has developed an asymmetry or tilt of the pelvis caused by muscles on one side pulling on the bone harder than muscles on the other side (so too strong on one side and too weak on the other). Usually happens for a reason, like an injury they are compensating for. Even if the initial injury is resolved, the tight/weak musculature pattern becomes the new normal, the horse has adapted to it. When you then correct the asymmetry mechanically (if you can) you leave a horse who's sensory pathways now tell him he's very out of whack as he'd adjusted to the incorrect posture. This may show up as a lameness as he isn't used to moving in the new position, or it may show up a lameness that had already been present and was the cause of why he went wonky in the first place.

With my horse, his lumbar sacral region has locked up (as in very tight muscles holding it and not letting it flex) in an extended position. Because he can't flex through it, he can't tuck his bum and step under. He has a couple of options, either he shortens his stride and dribbles his hind end out behind him, or when a bit hyped up he looks like he's stepping through but has actually developed a slight swing out of the hind leg to create room to bring it through without the flexion of the joints. He looks sound but awkward like this. I did have him adjusted (under vet approval) and did feel an incredible difference, his back felt lifted and a hand higher and he could step through straight without swinging the leg. I was how ever under strict instructions to keep it straight lines for a few weeks and only ask him to 'work' for a few strides and then big pat and relax down. Build up over several weeks and no cantering for at least 2 weeks. I was told working in circles and asking for constant outline would be the quickest way to break him. Unfortunately within 2 weeks, before the muscles had chance to strengthen in their new position, he had a mad hooley and splat and I did all the good work. I had the vet assess him and am now waiting to have him manipulated again.

I'm a bit fan of chiro work, it isn't all about big crunches, as a human I've recently had a lot of work on myself that has been extremely gentle and subtle but has made a massive difference in what has been a serious and longstanding problem.
 
Tense muscles can cause pelvises to be held incorrectly. - and if viewed from behind one hip may seem lower, if viewed from above one hip might look further forwards. I don't really see why that the fact muscles can be tense is questionable. Treatment of those muscles and activation of others can change it and essentially all chiro/physio is muscle work.

OP I find it a bit odd you were told to lunge too, it would be more normal to stick to straight line work for a good few days while things settle down. I would now get the vet.
 
TYSSANDI said:
I never asked a question so do not need it answered, thank you all the same and do not want to study a skeleton because you say so. Maybe I should shoot a freinds horse and do an autopsy on it :rolleyes:!!!!!


.
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Calm down dear, there are things called photographs, drawings and "the Internet". No need to go around shooting your friends horses 😮
 
Shay said:
With the best will in the world Tyssandi - we are horses are not the same skeletal structure at all. A human can apply enough force to another human skeleton to make a difference. And we are more or less the same size so you can use positioning to get the right level etc.

No human is ever going to be able to apply enough force to an animal at least 10 times their size. Let alone one with the locking musculature that a horse has.
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A decent practitioner is not about using force, it is about using levers.
 
KautoStar1 said:
How can the pelvis be out of line. Unless it's broken. Sometimes I think some of these 'back people' just make up stuff to justify the huges sums they charge for basically nothing. If your horse is lame call the vet. They will assess and recommend a treatment plan.
Click to expand...

Agree! I hate it when they say its out - winds me right up!
 
TYSSANDI said:
I never asked a question so do not need it answered, thank you all the same and do not want to study a skeleton because you say so. Maybe I should shoot a freinds horse and do an autopsy on it :rolleyes:!!!!!



I Have had enough Chiro on myself to know what they do and what they achieve by their work.
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If you are ever lucky enough to have the opportunity to watch an expert rebuild an equine skeleton I would thoroughly recommend you watch, learn and understand how the horse actually works and is put together. It is truly fascinating and be an excellent learning tool for how you work your horses in the future.
 
Thanks to everyone who gave helpful comments. The horse seems sound this afternoon after a day on box rest.


To everyone else, this was not created for you to have arguments on, everyone has their own opinion and yes, i asked for help but there is no need to create petty drama over some one elses opinion.
 
Can a vet tell if there is a problem with the pelvis without scans etc?
I ask as my vet mentioned my youngster has a slightly uneven pelvis, no treatment was recommended and I now have a insurance exclusion.
 
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