Oy, you with the arthritic mare ......

Echo Bravo said:
Well Goldenstar more shame on you for putting horse owners in the situation that they were pushed into having their horses/ponies PTS when they didn't either want too or need too.
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Spending time nudging owners to call their own vet to advise them and if that advice was that the time had come ,I feel no shame what so ever about my roll
How the on earth do you know these horses did not need to be put down you where not there .
You don't know anything about them at all .
That you think I should feel shame for the time I spent ,well that just the silliest thing I have heard in a long time .
 
Echo Bravo said:
Yes some owners don't look after their animals, you could also say that about parents and their children. But Goldenstar comes over that we mere mortals cann't look after our aged animals and must be pushed either gently or a bit more forcefully into PTS. :(
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Total nonsense, show when I have said that .
 
Echo Bravo said:
Yorksg, What do you call elderly and should we start looking at the human population for the over 60 ???? :)
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I am far more concerned about the quality of life for ANY elderly mammal, none should be forced to live in pain for the benefit of others. When my mother was without heartbeat for long enough to sustain brain damage, but was resucitated, my father was offered the option of her being kept physically alive. He said no, having at that point been married to her for over 50 years he knew she would not have wanted that, no matter that he was devastated at her death. Old and ill animals are kept alive when it is not in their best interests, because of selfish owners. Does that answer your question EB?
 
Well If I saw a horse on 3 legs in the field, one I would have climbed the fence to check said horse, then second gone to find the owner, if I couldn't find the owner I would call the RSPCA out say a horse was on 3 legs and wait for them to come out (They do seem to come out within the hour if a horse is suffering badly in my experience. I would not have left the horse there, and come on here and posted about it and phone someone Monday morning. The horse could have a broken leg, how can you tell from just driving past?
 
I know nothing about the horse OP is talking about the advice I gave was to report to the charity of her choice .
I would give that advice to anyone I would never advise anyone to approach a stranger it's best IMO to leave it to people who have training and experiance in dealing with these things .
Owners of old horses can be prosecuted if their care and veterinary imput is substandard , it's old is not a defence .
I have never seen a owner of an oldie prosecuted personally ,it's always been dealt with by the owners own vet or sometimes by a RSPCA vet .
 
I'm sorry Yorksg and Goldenstar you both talk complete tosh. If we all listened to you both most owners of animals keep them in a lot of pain/old age because we are all selfish, no we don't, we go by the animal and vets advice. Please don't lump us all in just by a very few and that goes for bad parents as well. :(
 
bonny said:
I think it's safe to say the horse hasn't got a broken leg !
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Probably not, but still wouldn't drive past a horse on 3 legs, would at least go and tell the owner... and the OP knows all about the owner so why not call in and say sorry, think your horse has done something as it's on 3 legs?
 
The way the OP has conducted herself from start to finish (where's she gone?) on this thread is not particularly admirable. It's a contentious issue and I think she knew the thread would become somewhat 'interesting'. Her initial post was distasteful enough and then continued to goad anyone who showed the audacity to disagree or have an open mind about the horse's condition or circumstances.

One of my horses is due to be put down due to old age very soon (36), and if I stumbled across a thread like this about him, I don't think I'd ever forget it.

Why didn't you make this a more general post and then do the RIGHT thing and approach and owner directly?
 
YorksG said:
Absolutely agree, many elderly animals are kept going long after they should be, from a misplaced bellief in life at all costs. :(
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The bullock at the Hare Krishna temple couldn't get up, he was stuck on his knees for weeks and the police had to go in and force the people to allow in the RSPCA to put it to sleep, because they don't believe in killing animals, of course. I think that was a kindness to PTS the poor animal. Life at all costs may well equal enormous suffering.

I think we should bring in the Dignitas service in this country, I'm frequently appalled by stories of people who suffer tremendously and want to end it but aren't allowed. Different thread needed!
 
Echo Bravo said:
I'm sorry Yorksg and Goldenstar you both talk complete tosh. If we all listened to you both most owners of animals keep them in a lot of pain/old age because we are all selfish, no we don't, we go by the animal and vets advice. Please don't lump us all in just by a very few and that goes for bad parents as well. :(
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The one talking tosh is you .
I have never ever said that all owners keep old horses because they are selfish .
But many many old horses never see a vet never get pain relief for painful conditions and get a poor level of general care and it's a good thing that there are people who will go and make sure a vet sees them .
Many shall I say most old horses have great owners who care for them I am not in the least interested in them they need no help from outside .
 
Stacy_W said:
The way the OP has conducted herself from start to finish (where's she gone?) on this thread is not particularly admirable. It's a contentious issue and I think she knew the thread would become somewhat 'interesting'. Her initial post was distasteful enough and then continued to goad anyone who showed the audacity to disagree or have an open mind about the horse's condition or circumstances.

One of my horses is due to be put down due to old age very soon (36), and if I stumbled across a thread like this about him, I don't think I'd ever forget it.

Why didn't you make this a more general post and then do the RIGHT thing and approach and owner directly?
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Because its cptrayes.
 
Sorry Goldenstar but that is how I read you replies. My old horses have had a good life and been PTS at home, perhaps you should look to the travellers and their poor bloody animals, as they never see a vet or level of care and I know I bought a poor foal off them he's the one with a slipping stifle. :)
 
zigzag said:
Probably not, but still wouldn't drive past a horse on 3 legs, would at least go and tell the owner... and the OP knows all about the owner so why not call in and say sorry, think your horse has done something as it's on 3 legs?
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I would love to know how passers-by know who the horses they see from the road belong to, whether the horse lives on the owner's land or at livery or where the owner lives. I pass many horses at various times, except for my neighbours, I have no idea where the owner of those horses lives, or even how to get to the entrance of the yard that the horses are on at that time. Apart from the inadvisability of doing so, I wouldn't know where to start to be able to approach the owner of many of them.
 
Echo Bravo said:
Sorry Goldenstar but that is how I read you replies. My old horses have had a good life and been PTS at home, perhaps you should look to the travellers and their poor bloody animals, as they never see a vet or level of care and I know I bought a poor foal off them he's the one with a slipping stifle. :)
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I have spent a lot of time with travellers horses thank you very much .
I don't care one jot how you read my posts and what erroneous preconceptions you have about me .
I don't care you think I should be ashamed for the time I spent in cold and dark and rain trying to make some difference to some poor horse who deserved better but was not going to get it.
You just stay at home with your horses and enjoy your preconceptions of someone who at least tried to make a difference for horses other than her own .
It's very very easy to look after your own horses it's a complete breeze , trying to improve things for the less fortunate that's much harder .
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I would love to know how passers-by know who the horses they see from the road belong to, whether the horse lives on the owner's land or at livery or where the owner lives. I pass many horses at various times, except for my neighbours, I have no idea where the owner of those horses lives, or even how to get to the entrance of the yard that the horses are on at that time. Apart from the inadvisability of doing so, I wouldn't know where to start to be able to approach the owner of many of them.
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I would not advise anyone to approach strangers unless they do so with caution and not alone .
 
EB I have kept horses into their 30's and possibly older, BUT I and the rest of the family called time when we believed that the quality of life was no longer good enough. It is my opinion that SOME people (and some vets) keep animals alive because they can, rather than because they should. As I said in my previous post, a doctor would have kept my mother physically alive although she had lost all her intelectual functioning. I would hope that we all have sufficient humanity to not force others to suffer because we won't/can't make the choice .
 
Echo Bravo said:
And again you like me miss judge, what makes you think I'm a stay at home preconceptions goes both ways. I don't boast.
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What perhaps I should have said if it's easy to take the moral high ground when all you have to do is look after your own horses .
It's much much less easy at the sharp end .
I really don't get the boasting comment what's that got to with this .
 
One of the problems that this thread has highlighted is that we all have different ideas about when time should be called on an animals life....and I for one would not ask a vet but would trust only my own instincts. It's a hard decision and should in my opinion be left up to the owner to decide, not the passing public ! Welfare organisations should not interfere apart from in obvious neglect situations. It's a deeply personal decision and discussing anyone's old/infirm horse on here behind their back is in very poor taste.
 
And Yorksg that is what I have done over the years with my horses and dogs and cats and I would say most horse owners on here have as well. But having said that what about those poor people that want to die but not allowed too but the as you say the Doctors can say keep them going. The responseable owners are being lumped in with those that aren't and how do you know this mares owner isn't responsable. Nobody should judge another when they don't know the circumstances.
 
bonny said:
One of the problems that this thread has highlighted is that we all have different ideas about when time should be called on an animals life....and I for one would not ask a vet but would trust only my own instincts. It's a hard decision and should in my opinion be left up to the owner to decide, not the passing public ! Welfare organisations should not interfere apart from in obvious neglect situations. It's a deeply personal decision and discussing anyone's old/infirm horse on here behind their back is in very poor taste.
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If you get a call you went that is how it worked you have no idea what you will find normally you expect it be ok and then sometimes you walk into a nightmare you can't walk away from, sometimes it sounds really awful on the phone and it's ok when you get there.
Lame horses not getting veterinary Input are a welfare issue .
Thin oldies I think are not clear cut I have seen thin old horses who seemed to me to have good quality of life and great care they just where thin despite eating well .
Just editing to say I trust my own instincts and my vets advice about my own .
With other peoples it's different if things don't look good you need a vet to advise .
 
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Echo Bravo said:
And Yorksg that is what I have done over the years with my horses and dogs and cats and I would say most horse owners on here have as well. But having said that what about those poor people that want to die but not allowed too but the as you say the Doctors can say keep them going. The responseable owners are being lumped in with those that aren't and how do you know this mares owner isn't responsable. Nobody should judge another when they don't know the circumstances.
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No one has lumped owners together except you .
 
Goldenstar said:
If you get a call you went that is how it worked you have no idea what you will find normally you expect it be ok and then sometimes you walk into a nightmare you can't walk away from, sometimes it sounds really awful on the phone and it's ok when you get there.
Lame horses not getting veterinary Input are a welfare issue .
Thin oldies I think are not clear cut I have seen thin old horses who seemed to me to have good quality of life and great care they just where thin despite eating well .
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That's why I said we all have different views on when life should end for an old/infirm horse and people working for welfare organisations or vets are no different and mostly they are just seeing the horse on one day and not getting the whole picture. I've often had lame horses who haven't seen a vet and I wouldn't class them as welfare cases !
 
bonny said:
That's why I said we all have different views on when life should end for an old/infirm horse and people working for welfare organisations or vets are no different and mostly they are just seeing the horse on one day and not getting the whole picture. I've often had lame horses who haven't seen a vet and I wouldn't class them as welfare cases !
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I honestly think you have no idea of the level of neglect welfare officers are seeing .
 
Goldenstar said:
I honestly think you have no idea of the level of neglect welfare officers are seeing .
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That's not what we're talking about on here though....this is about owner's who care about their horse but don't see that that the end should come. We are not talking about obvious neglect, but old/infirm horses left too long. plus, you have no idea if I have no idea, if that makes sense !!
 
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