Pain or soreness ?

[MummyEms]

So I have the most wonderful mare who is such a pleasure.
We show jump a bit and do a bit of everything with my daughters on their ponies and recently have been doing some rather speedy hacking regularly in groups (longer and more strenuous).
I went to Barratt Watson for a jumping lesson and she didn't quite seem as cheerful or pingy (for want of a better word) as she usually does.
She's started doing a new habit where she's lowering her head down excessively.... I do have pics and vids of this on a canter the other day. Was most odd. Almost as if she was about to bronc but didn't , and it was continuous. Not like her.
She was hacked and schooled today and really didn't feel her usual fresh self. She's usually so happy and forward yet with amazing brakes and adjustability - however alongside the head down thing again (think nose on the floor shape in trot).... she felt almost lazy. I ended up getting off a walking her back.
She's on good ish grass and out 24/7 with company. She eats equimins balancer, pink mash and thunderbrook chaff. Nothings been changed recently except extra work really.
Everything's always thoroughly checked at the recommended time frames and vets / dentists / physio from rossdales and her farrier are always happy with everything.

I have a gut feeling She's sore some where. Where do you all think it could be with the head stretching right down new behaviour as my only clue?

She's just turned 8. She's a 16hh thoroughbred who is a brilliant little jumper and thoroughly prefers a hackamore to a bitted bridle (tried many different types, trainer agrees hackamore best) .

Be ever so grateful for any ideas and opinions.
Can post pics if useful.

 

[MummyEms]

Pics for you to see. This is it in canter. It was even lower today

 

[milliepops]

so many possibilities.
When my horse had ulcers she lost her joie de vivre under saddle and stretched her neck out like that particularly in canter. Are there any other things that might point to that? (mine was on ulcer friendly management and still somehow got them)

 

[MummyEms]

Not really any other signs of ulcers particularly. I did treat her for them when I first bought her. With the ulcer guard syringes xx

 

[milliepops]

yeah i don't think it's a typical sign, but your post just reminded me of how my mare was. hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[ycbm]

Is it just the photo or is your saddle sitting very low at the front?

.

 

[meleeka]

Mine did this when he had sacroiliac pain. I’d get your saddle checked and a physio as a start.

 

[MummyEms]

Is it just the photo or is your saddle sitting very low at the front?

.

It does look it in that pic but has recently been checked.
I'll get that and her back checked again though.
I'm going to give her a bit of time off too.

 

[Equi]

My first thought before the pictures was the saddle might be either too tight or too wide. The photos really make it look like it’s sitting very low so I’d have that looked at again by a different saddler.

 

[MummyEms]

I'll find some more pics for you of it.... here are some recent ones.
I'll definitely get a second opinion. This was the butet people (its a butet monoflap)

 

[MummyEms]

Just been looking through pics but will get better ones of saddle on ASAP.
Found these pics though and remembered she loves me riding her in this christ lamfelle pad which I stupidly haven't done for ages ?

 

[MummyEms]

Thanks ever so much for people's replies so far

 

[TheMule]

Saddle would be the first place to look for me. I love Butets but they are a bit unforgiving and, particularly in light seat as you are here, there's a huge concentration of pressure in a very small area where it's not contacting with much of her back.

 

[MummyEms]

Thank you. Have contacted them ( UK butet) as an emergency so fingers crossed they'll step in ASAP.

 

[sbloom]

Just been looking through pics but will get better ones of saddle on ASAP.
Found these pics though and remembered she loves me riding her in this christ lamfelle pad which I stupidly haven't done for ages ?

Please everyone never ever change thickness of pad without at least consulting with your fitter. Going to a thinner pad has allowed the front to drop which was the first thing I thought when I saw the first photos, and not only does that put more than 50% of the weight on the front, but more so when in 2 point/light seat AND it brings any issues with the rails/bars into sharper focus. Even if the saddle is fitted differently for each pad, over time, some horses will always prefer the fit that accommodates a sheepskin, they just like the sheepskin (and there are many good reasons for this).

Saddle would be the first place to look for me. I love Butets but they are a bit unforgiving and, particularly in light seat as you are here, there's a huge concentration of pressure in a very small area where it's not contacting with much of her back.

Yeah, Butets are sadly not generous for the horse, the rails are narrow and upright as with almost all close contact saddles, especially the French brands. Dropping the front pushes them into the back more, and in this case the slight pressure distribution effect of the sheepskin is also missing.

 

[MummyEms]

No the christ lamfelle i mention is instead of the butet saddle .
The padding options with the butet have only ever been what's been discussed with the sederholm butet fitter.
She recently filled out and the fitter suggested she no longer needed a pad .
Although she does have the VIP pad under which is second to none for pressure distribution.

 

[sbloom]

No the christ lamfelle i mention is instead of the butet saddle .
The padding options with the butet have only ever been what's been discussed with the sederholm butet fitter.
She recently filled out and the fitter suggested she no longer needed a pad .
Although she does have the VIP pad under which is second to none for pressure distribution.

Ahh okay, CL makes sheepskin pads for under saddles hence the confusion. I would read up about close contact saddles, by definition they have very thin panels and tend to be fitted with sheepskin pads which will stop the drop at the front more than would the VIP, However no pad can make up for the rails being the wrong shape for the horse, fitters of French saddles have a completely different perspective on saddle fitting to many others and there may be better options.

And to explain, carrying the head much lower than usual is often an attempt to push the saddle up off the back and relieve pressure points. It can be seen as the shape you're showing, if you let her have the rein I'd guess she'd carry her nose even further down, and out, like a bloodhound.

 

[MummyEms]

Yes definitely. That was a few days ago and yesterday her nose was wanting to be even lower to the ground.
A little holiday for her now and then major saddle investigationsbefore I go anywhere near riding her again. Thank you.

 

[Bills]

My friends TB did exactly this, after having everything checked, saddle physio etc she was at her wits end so took her to the vet for a work up. Turns out she had kissing spine.

 

[GrassChop]

I know some that do this to avoid the action of the curb chain.

 

[MummyEms]

I know some that do this to avoid the action of the curb chain.

It's really good you mention that as just today I have noticed her possibly not comfortable enough in her bridle!!!!

 

[MummyEms]

If anyone knows of any good saddlers who would make me a headpiece... the vet and trainer and I have decided she needs a head piece like in the picture I'll attach, yet compatible with her hackamore (not bitted)

 

[GrassChop]

It's really good you mention that as just today I have noticed her possibly not comfortable enough in her bridle!!!!

Could you try a sheepskin poll protector or a bitless bridle without the chain and poll action? Or if you have control, just a headcollar to see if she reacts the same! If so, it's either the poll or the feeling of the chain.