Pandering to overweight riders

[GrassChop]

I'm not going to signpost. The actual post was shocking and the responses were equally crap. I felt the admin should have pulled the post.

I'm surprised it's still up to be fair, just gives the OP the chance to defend herself and because there have been a lot of people condoning it, she won't ever learn that it's not okay. Plus comments are turned off. It's a losing battle.
I have the screenshots of it if anyone wanted to see it but won't be putting them on the thread.

 

[GrassChop]

I'm not going to signpost. The actual post was shocking and the responses were equally crap. I felt the admin should have pulled the post.

Did you see the one on the black horse recently too? There were two pictures I think, one on a beach and one in an indoor school. She looked very top heavy and horse had his head up and back dipped.

 

[criso]

Didn't see the post so can't comment. However in terms of a response generally maybe it would be better in these cases to stick to facts.

Along the lines of recommended max is 20% followed by an explanation of how to calculate. You are then not saying too heavy but giving everyone the tools to work out what percentage they are.

 

[GrassChop]

Didn't see the post so can't comment. However in terms of a response generally maybe it would be better in these cases to stick to facts.

Along the lines of recommended max is 20% followed by an explanation of how to calculate. You are then not saying too heavy but giving everyone the tools to work out what percentage they are.

There were a lot of comments on the post saying the 20% rule is outdated and not fact.

ETA: There were a lot saying that the horse's build and ability etc needs to be taken into consideration too which I agree with but when you are THAT heavy, it really doesn't matter how good the horse is. I would say that to be between the 17-20% mark, then the horse needs to be fit with a good rider, decent saddle fit, etc.

ETA 2: I reported the post on Facebook too.

 

[criso]

There were a lot of comments on the post saying the 20% rule is outdated and not fact.

ETA: There were a lot saying that the horse's build and ability etc needs to be taken into consideration too which I agree with but when you are THAT heavy, it really doesn't matter how good the horse is. I would say that to be between the 17-20% mark, then the horse needs to be fit with a good rider, decent saddle fit, etc.

ETA 2: I reported the post on Facebook too.

I guess it's not a fact in the sense that it's more a range from 15-20% but it's a starting point for a discussion in a non judgemental way.

But quoting a percentage and explaining how to calculate it would be a good starting point for the person asking the question to do their own research.

The problem on some of these discussions is you get extremes on both ends with no basis behind it so looking at a number which takes into account actual weight of horse and rider is a neutral starting point. However doing that once the discussion has got heated and emotive is too late.

 

[ycbm]

I see a lot of bad stuff approved of by the western community, with very small horses carrying far too much weight on the grounds that "they are Quarter Horses and built for it". The riders alone are bad enough before you even start thinking about saddles weighing 22 -28 kilos all by themselves.
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[[153312]]

I see a lot of bad stuff approved of by the western community, with very small horses carrying far too much weight on the grounds that "they are Quarter Horses and built for it". The riders alone are bad enough before you even start thinking about saddles weighing 22 -28 kilos all by themselves.
.

I have seen recommendations of "25-30% horses weight" in US groups.
That would be 18 st or more on my 15hh.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I have seen recommendations of "25-30% horses weight" in US groups.
That would be 18 st or more on my 15hh.

30st top end on my 17hh ID 3yo - terrifying
Obviously there is a limit, but it means that they would essentially let anyone ride him, and there are some SERIOUSLY overweight riders that ride in the US.
My top end for any rider on any horse would a couple stone over half that, at a push.

 

[paddy555]

sadly I didn't save an item on FB yesterday however it showed me how "odd" things are on the other side of the pond

there was a mule for sale, quiet to ride etc etc it's rider, an older man, had ridden it everywhere. Middle aged mule, what was not to like.

Then I looked at the pic. The mule was detailed (per the vendor) at 11.2, it had a full size western saddle which was not far off it's tail in length and was standing in the back of a pick up.

just unbelievable.

 

[GrassChop]

Facebook reckons it's okay.

 

[Sealine]

How much weight can a horse carry?

The number on the scales is just one factor to consider when calculating a horse riding weight limit and how much weight a horse can carry

www.yourhorse.co.uk

Interesting to read that 10% is optimal and 20% as ‘welfare may be compromised’.

 

[ycbm]

How much weight can a horse carry?

The number on the scales is just one factor to consider when calculating a horse riding weight limit and how much weight a horse can carry

www.yourhorse.co.uk

Interesting to read that 10% is optimal and 20% as ‘welfare may be compromised’.

10% is completely impractical, I think. I don't see any reference to where that figure came from. It would mean a 10st person couldn’t ride a 650 kg horse except naked and bareback. I'd want solid evidence to support that kind of limit.
.

 

[Time for Tea]

10% is completely impractical, I think. I don't see any reference to where that figure came from. It would mean a 10st person couldn’t ride a 650 kg horse except naked and bareback. If want solid evidence to support that kind of limit.
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Well it would mean my NF pony could only carry 47 kg or 5 1/2 stone rider plus tack etc. I don’t think he’d notice they were there!

 

[Surbie]

How much weight can a horse carry?

The number on the scales is just one factor to consider when calculating a horse riding weight limit and how much weight a horse can carry

www.yourhorse.co.uk

Interesting to read that 10% is optimal and 20% as ‘welfare may be compromised’.

From the article:
“These guidelines are based on knowledge of the research that has taken place in this field to date, but these are my own views,” explained Dr Bondi. “We do not yet have scientific evidence for definitive figures due to the huge number of variables involved.

 

[Goldenstar]

There’s 10% and riding round a five star and then there’s 20% for hacking a low riding club stuff.
The two are not the same .

 

[silv]

I see a lot of bad stuff approved of by the western community, with very small horses carrying far too much weight on the grounds that "they are Quarter Horses and built for it". The riders alone are bad enough before you even start thinking about saddles weighing 22 -28 kilos all by themselves.
.

You are so correct there, and quarter horses are not built for it. Don,t start me on the same heavy riders competing 2 year olds.

 

[ycbm]

There’s 10% and riding round a five star and then there’s 20% for hacking a low riding club stuff.
The two are not the same .

10% for a 5 star would knock out many of the current competitors. Let's say the average horse competing 5 star is 600kg, how many riders could make 60kg clothed and carrying their tack? None of the men, for sure.

 

[Goldenstar]

Like we have been say like the 10000 steps a day these are pretty random figures and historically horses carried far more weight for much harder work than they do now .


I still think this debate appeals to the not particularly nice or healthy debate we have about weight generally .
It’s a bit of a battlefield.
The thing that’s the big one is it’s horses being too fat that is fuelling a lot of the of equine lameness we see .

 

[ycbm]

historically horses carried far more weight for much harder work than they do now .

And lived much shorter lives. You're similar age to me, you probably remember when insurance terminated at 15 and you couldn't insure a horse over that age because 15 was old.

I still think this debate appeals to the not particularly nice or healthy debate we have about weight generally .

Of course it does but that's no reason not to discuss horse welfare, imo.

The thing that’s the big one is it’s horses being too fat that is fuelling a lot of the of equine lameness we see .

Yes that's a huge problem but fat horses are a completely different issue. We have threads about those too.

 

[Roxylola]

Bon and charlie were both weigh bridged. Charlie was around 520 Bon 540, that's a 15 hand cob and a 16 hand sports horse, they're in extra wide and wide saddles respectively so both have a reasonable amount of substance. 10% wouldn't leave many adults who could ride them - I could but I'm 5'2 and I'd have to diet (and forever be dieting) 10% including tack would be too light even for me and if you look at pictures I'm pretty small on them both.
I also think this "average horse is 600kg" is probably unlikely to be honest. I think more will be between 5 and 6 which is a fair amount when you scale it down to weight bearing %

 

[rabatsa]

And lived much shorter lives. You're similar age to me, you probably remember when insurance terminated at 15 and you couldn't insure a horse over that age because 15 was old.

It was not the work that killed most horses back in the day. I remember the new wormer thiabendazole coming out, you could get it either as a powder or as a pony nut that nothing would eat. The majority of young horses missed out on being wormed. Then we also expected nearly every horse/pony to catch strangles when young and would worry if we had one that we knew had not yet had it.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I see a lot of bad stuff approved of by the western community, with very small horses carrying far too much weight on the grounds that "they are Quarter Horses and built for it". The riders alone are bad enough before you even start thinking about saddles weighing 22 -28 kilos all by themselves.
.

I know what you mean, I used to ride western and I think they rely on the weight is distributed over a large area, the saddle is more or less flat under with loads of sheepskin then a huge saddle pad which give more comfort, where as an english saddle is concentrated in a small area more weight on certain muscles in a smaller area just along each side of the spine. Also the western jog doesn't use as much energy as the trot, legs not elevated as much and its more comfortable for the horse to go miles this way. Also more comfortable for the rider too , as not bouncing as much.

My mare once she learn the western jog and the lope, would do it in the field of her own choice, only annoying thing she wanted to do it going into a fence which as you can imagine was not ideal.

On its own my western saddle is not much heavy than my Kent and Masters



"quote"The Western saddle is bigger, broader, and heavier as opposed to the English saddle which is much smaller and lighter. The Western saddle was designed to distribute the riders' weight across the horses back, be comfortable, and functional for the longer rides that the Western saddle was made for. "unquote"

I rode in english and western on her and I must say she had more energy at the end of the ride when riding western than when I went english.

 

[Orangehorse]

10% for a 5 star would knock out many of the current competitors. Let's say the average horse competing 5 star is 600kg, how many riders could make 60kg clothed and carrying their tack? None of the men, for sure.

In the days when Eventers had a minimum weight to carry, what was it? That was every horse, whether 15.00 hh Our Nobby or a 17.2 hh. And that was with the steepechase and roads and tracks too.

Still, horses mostly have such a long career as now ...................

 

[criso]

In the days when Eventers had a minimum weight to carry, what was it? That was every horse, whether 15.00 hh Our Nobby or a 17.2 hh. And that was with the steepechase and roads and tracks too.

Still, horses mostly have such a long career as now ...................

11st 11lb or 75kg


Earlier in the thread we were talking about cavalry horses and except for being killed in combat, they are had quite a long active life. Much longer than the working horses that were pulling versus carrying weight. Not sure what that means but it struck me.

 

[Orangehorse]

11st 11lb or 75kg


Earlier in the thread we were talking about cavalry horses and except for being killed in combat, they are had quite a long active life. Much longer than the working horses that were pulling versus carrying weight. Not sure what that means but it struck me.

I have a friend who was taught by an ex cavalry officer. One thing he said was that when on the march the horses rested for 5 minutes every hour. Which is more than I do when hacking, but I suppose we stop and start at road junctions, going through gates, its not like keeping going on the road for miles and miles all day.

An exhibit at a show a couple of weeks ago showed a cavalry horse fully tacked up and equipped with weapons, food, spare shoes and the weight they were expected to carry all in was 20 stone.

Army horses were well looked after and considered an important asset. I suppose many horses pulling weights have hock problems. Oddly enough several riding/driving horses I have encountered over the years often seem to prefer being driven rather than ridden, but maybe that's the skill of the rider!

 

[ycbm]

It was not the work that killed most horses back in the day. I remember the new wormer thiabendazole coming out, you could get it either as a powder or as a pony nut that nothing would eat. The majority of young horses missed out on being wormed. Then we also expected nearly every horse/pony to catch strangles when young and would worry if we had one that we knew had not yet had it.

Of course it's multi factorial, but I don't see anything that went on in the past with weight carrying justifying the kind of weight some horses are being asked to carry today.
.

 

[Steerpike]

FEI endurance still has a minimum weight for 3* 160km events set at 75kg

 

[Time for Tea]

The weight for NF ponies of 14.2 size to carry in the Boxing Day point to point is 11 stone 7 lbs. Christmas dinner is not helpful for those riders carrying a little more than they should….

 

[Winters100]

Off topic, but will share this, since diet was discussed above.

I have always battled to stay a healthy weight, in particular I crave sweet things or carbs in the evenings and have to be incredibly strict not to give in, sometimes I have to go and walk around the garden to take my mind off it! I have recently started taking a supplement called Chlorella. I only bought them because I was ordering online from a health shop in advance of a visitor who needs to be gluten free, and I needed to add something to get free delivery. Now I will caveat this by saying that I have no idea at all if this is the reason, and that I am in no way qualified to recommend anything, but since taking them I seem to have totally lost the desire for sweet things, and no cravings for carbs. I have also not been feeling like drinking alcohol, we usually have a glass of wine on Saturday nights, and last 2 weeks I have just not felt like it.

Of course this may be totally unrelated to this supplement, but since they are affordable (I paid about 5 euros for a 3 month supply of tablets) I thought I would mention it in case anyone wants to try.