Pandering to overweight riders

[scats]

People hugely underestimate the amount of calories they are consuming. It’s quite shocking how small a portion of food is when you do it properly.
It wouldn’t surprise me if most people mis-calculate the calorific value and are actually consuming nearly double what they think.

Those of us taking medication for health issues (of which I am one), sadly start at a disadvantage and we have to be even more strict and careful.
I do get a bit frustrated when people tell me how lucky I am to be slim, because the reality is I restrict myself a lot, often feel hungry and consume fist-sized portions.
My metabolic rate flew out the window when I was in my early twenties and I’ve yet to find it

 

[Gloi]

I know people who eat far healthier than I do, and exercise far more than I do, but they're still overweight because of their family underwent generations of starvation and famine. Epigenetics has a massive influence on the metabolism; cardio won't help you when you were born with genes prepared for starving to death.

Exactly like our native ponies.

 

[Ali27]

Just because this worked for you you assume it will work for everyone and that is attitude that overweight people are dealing with when in fact it is much more complex than this. This is aside from the debate of some riders being too heavy for their horses. But this kind of attitude is outdated in this day and age

Just came back to this thread and responses to my post!
I’m not being unkind or judgemental but apart from some medical reasons, the majority of overweight people eat too many calories! If I had carried on with my bottle of Prosecco and family bag of crisps a night, then my weight would have continued to have crept up to 11 stone plus! At the age of 50, I decided to do something about it for the sake of my health and riding my 14.2 pony! I didn’t particularly look overweight but covered it well! The fact that I’m 50 and have lost nearly 2 stone in just over a year shows that it can be done! Although I do a lot of exercise now, it was pretty much cutting out crap from my diet which lost the majority of the weight! So considering I’m at the “menopausal” age where apparently weight starts to pile on, I decided to do something about it for the sake of my health and my pony!
It’s not like I lost a couple of pounds! I would say that nearly 2 stone is quite a significant weight! I have no intention of putting it back on and I know by following a healthy diet and exercising then I should be ok!

 

[paddy555]

I know people who eat far healthier than I do, and exercise far more than I do, but they're still overweight because of their family underwent generations of starvation and famine. Epigenetics has a massive influence on the metabolism; cardio won't help you when you were born with genes prepared for starving to death.

So do we just yell at them louder to change what's on their plate or do we try and help with all the factors that are stopping them changing what's on their plate?

Those who can snap back to healthy eating when life feels a little better are probably in the minority as are those who can eat better to feel better. There is more and more research into this - we are hardwired to eat calorie laden food to protect us from famine. I don't understand why it's so hard to see how this can work against us, and anyone who says people need more willpower fundamentally misunderstand what willpower is. A lot of lack of appreciation that research is starting to prove what may of us so far have only had empathy towards - that many people will find it massively more difficult than person A to lose weight.

if many overweight people simply counted the daily calories, all of them, that they consumed then, sadly, the answer may become obvious for them.
Then if they looked at the food supplying those calories. What are they? are they helping, good source of protein or hindering and producing inflammation, poor mood etc.
You don't have to restrict your eating, you can eat lots, just make it foods that help which are often lower in calories and produce health (both physical and mental) benefits.
It is far from starvation or food restriction.

are you hard wired to eat calorie laden food or you just fancy a McDonalds or cream cake because it tastes nice. If you stuffed yourself on more suitable food you would no longer feel hungry.
I don't see we have personally become more hard wired for eating certain foods I think a good part of it is what is thrown at people in modern life. Every advert seems to be for "just eat" or "deliveroo" can't be arsed to prepare some food just pick up the phone and it will be with you shortly,

then there are the adverts for particular foods.

some lucky people are genetically programmed to eat what they want. Others are less lucky and have the fat gene so more effort and care is required in choosing their eating plan.
I am the latter. I had 2 relations die of over eating and extreme overweight, a third who died of a heart attack at the wheel due to weight issues (whilst driving a coachload of passengers) and a grandmother who struggled to get out of a chair let alone move due to extreme weight which had exacerbated arthritis amongst other things.
So I have to be careful. It is no hardship, it is not my fault if I was to overeat and get fat. No amount of counselling or help would make a difference. I, like many, are unfortunate enough to be programmed that way.
However I can see the problem and have to take steps to keep things under control. This is not self congratulatory but simply realising there would be a problem and taking care to avoid it.

I suggest the answer is a pro active approach. Not saying "woe is me" and putting it all down to mental health but using the resources google kindly provides and working out an eating and lifestyle approach that fits you.

SBmay be right and research may prove this but it still leave the situation of people having to take control for themselves.

I appreciate my comments won't be popular.



(I mean "you" in this post to be people in general)

 

[sbloom]

"My mental health, certainly regarding food, is fundamentally good, I have enough money and knowledge to shop and eat well, I have access to decent food retailers, I have facilities and time to cook healthy meals...I realised I'd put on some weight so decided to lose it, found the motivation to change (upbringing, personality, environment yadda yadda), improved my habits and lost it. Why can't you?"

There are some people whose relationship with food is so good that they can eat intuitively, literally eat whatever they want, and stay a healthy weight. If you told anyone who's been damaged by dieting, or has any struggle with their relationship with food, to eat intuitively, they'd gain weight horribly.

Those who manage to lose weight reasonably easily, have you ever had issues you know are a problem in your life, tried absolutely everything, gone round and round in a cycle of overwhelm, and ultimately ended up no better off then you were before, and often worse because of all the stress it caused or money spent or a million other reasons? If not you, not had a friend who's been through the same? Sometimes people are trying harder than you'd ever know.

 

[stangs]

if many overweight people simply counted the daily calories, all of them, that they consumed then, sadly, the answer may become obvious for them.
Then if they looked at the food supplying those calories. What are they? are they helping, good source of protein or hindering and producing inflammation, poor mood etc.
You don't have to restrict your eating, you can eat lots, just make it foods that help which are often lower in calories and produce health (both physical and mental) benefits.
It is far from starvation or food restriction.

To be clear, when I stay generations of starvation, I don't mean restricted eating or wartime rations. I mean notes in my grand-uncle's diary about the shame he felt eating grass.

Yes, everything you say is correct re healthy eating, and yes it will be true for many people - but that alone won't work for everyone. Do you seriously think the people in my post, who work so hard to try lose weight, don't bother checking ingredients or counting calories? The amount of time they've spent researching, I'd argue they know far more maintaining a genuinely healthy diet, not the NHS-recommended nonsense, than most people on this thread.

 

[sbloom]

Obsessing about calories can be seriously harmful to some people and set off a spiral of overeating, no matter how counterintuitive that seems.

 

[Rowreach]

Another diet thread after all.

 

[Arzada]

The fact that I’m 50 and have lost nearly 2 stone in just over a year shows that it can be done!

Well done! To expand on this - it's very easy to give up when the weight isn't coming off as fast as one thinks it should or body shape isn't changing as much as you'd like in relation to the amount of adaption to food intake. It's useful to think about how long it took for the pounds/kgs to go and cut yourself some slack and know that weight loss/body shape changes will take some time. It's not a quick fix

 

[SEL]

People hugely underestimate the amount of calories they are consuming. It’s quite shocking how small a portion of food is when you do it properly.
It wouldn’t surprise me if most people mis-calculate the calorific value and are actually consuming nearly double what they think.

Those of us taking medication for health issues (of which I am one), sadly start at a disadvantage and we have to be even more strict and careful.
I do get a bit frustrated when people tell me how lucky I am to be slim, because the reality is I restrict myself a lot, often feel hungry and consume fist-sized portions.
My metabolic rate flew out the window when I was in my early twenties and I’ve yet to find it

Oh I feel your pain!!

Having to weigh my food to calculate my medication was eye opening. The RDA of spaghetti is tiny and I love pasta. My OH lost a tonne of weight because obviously I was cooking for both of us so was weighing his food too.

 

[SEL]

I know people who eat far healthier than I do, and exercise far more than I do, but they're still overweight because of their family underwent generations of starvation and famine. Epigenetics has a massive influence on the metabolism; cardio won't help you when you were born with genes prepared for starving to death.

I know someone who does everything right, and is on Ozempic to boot, but still can't lose even a pound. No one, not even the specialists, can figure out why.

There is a place for the 80-20 rule, especially in a country where UPF is a big issue, but it is incredibly cruel - and, above all else, arrogant - to say that everyone can lose weight if they just put effort into it like you did.

Given very few of us were born into families that had access to unlimited food (my aunt did our family tree - the poverty going back just a few generations was heart breaking) then the epigenetics argument could apply to vast numbers of us. The women in my family all get fat easily. We roll out eyes and joke at family gatherings about our annoying gene pool, whilst all accepting we have no choice but to watch what we eat.

The genetic marker that stops people feeling full and leads to non stop eating is rare and desperately sad. For everyone else it isn't cruel or showing a lack of empathy to say that it is possible to address obesity through diet. No one is saying it's easy and many will need help, but it is possible.

It's also not what this thread was about. Reacher is most definitely correct about that. Perhaps we should all agree to differ & move on!

 

[paddy555]

To be clear, when I stay generations of starvation, I don't mean restricted eating or wartime rations. I mean notes in my grand-uncle's diary about the shame he felt eating grass.

I realised you meant much further back. However if this starvation programmed the current overweight situation then people in 1940 were no different to the current population yet, for the most part, they were not overweight. Why? there was a shortage of food. They must have had far worse MH situations than nowadays due to the terror of the war.

 

[CorvusCorax]

The Dutch now are a very tall and sturdy people, because of the post-war feeding programme after they were starved by the Nazis.

I can do lots of things in life easily/without even having to think about it, that other people would find very difficult, or could never do, and vice versa. I don't think 'I can do it, you can to!' is terribly helpful, when there are so many variables.

 

[paddy555]

Exactly like our native ponies.

no not really.
I look at the feral hill ponies that surround me and they are not overweight. They could eat all day, there is plenty of vegetation around us. They are a normal weight.

if your comment was "like our domestic native ponies" then I agree.

The only thing that separates the feral hill ponies from mine is a wall. My feral rescues came here because of starvation. One was a BOGOF. Her foal was born here. She is a fat domestic native pony. If she had been on the outside of the field wall she wouldn't be.

It is the lifestyle of ease and plenty we give our horses and humans.

 

[planete]

New Forest ponies on the Forest do not become overweight either even though they are free to eat non stop. They are just eating food suitable for them, not rich dairy farm grass. Human food is mostly so denatured or plain inappropriate for our species that it often wrecks our metabolism and we suffer the consequences unfortunately.

 

[blitznbobs]

Hey — all you anorexics out there just eat more and move less you will be fine…

 

[TPO]

Hey — all you anorexics out there just eat more and move less you will be fine…

Hilarious

Also, not a diet/weight/mental health thread, but animal welfare.

 

[blitznbobs]

Hilarious

Also, not a diet/weight/mental health thread, but animal welfare.

You could’ve fooled me…

 

[Boulty]

It is perfectly possible to be at a totally appropriate weight for your height & build and to be unsuitable for certain horses. It is also possible to be overweight but to still be able to find horses that are able to carry you easily. (And of course it is possible to be of such a weight that no horse would be able to carry you without it being a welfare issue)

It shouldn’t need to be about fat shaming, just about whether you’re appropriate for the horse you’re sat on.

Obviously it would be utterly impossible to try to reach every corner of the equine world but bringing in a blanket every horse and rider (with tack) is to be weighed on arrival at competitions at same time as checking passports above a certain level (perhaps championships, county shows & other high profile events?) might be a start / might spark a conversation going? Perhaps make it an advisory thing for the first few years and then move towards eliminating anyone found to be over what is acceptable. Going off discussion on here it seems to be pretty widely agreed that over 20% is not acceptable so maybe that could be set as the maximum but anyone in the 15-20% range advised that this is unideal. I guess you’d need to have someone running it also capable of body condition scoring the horses and subtracting how much they are overweight by from the carrying capacity of their ideal weight to prevent people from just presenting obese horses to try & get around it. Would likely be beyond the scope of the average local show to do but would think the larger events would likely have the infrastructure to support such an initiative (& I think a few are starting to try and do this in a voluntary way). At least if you were asking everyone to do it then it’s not singling out any one person whilst still picking up on unsuitable combinations. (& I think a lot of people would be genuinely shocked to learn what all their tack & gear weighs)

I am probably at the top end of what is healthy for my height but am within 15% of my current horse’s healthy weight including tack. I could probably do with losing about a stone if I’m honest but I work weird hours that make doing actual cooking awkward, love cake & chocolate a little too much, am on medication that makes weight gain more likely and health issues mean I can’t swim or do high impact exercise without pain. (I’m also asthmatic and if I push myself it affects my breathing for weeks, yay!). I wouldn’t have been happy riding my previous horse at the weight I am now.

 

[GrassChop]

This is exactly the sort of sh!t that we are competing with.

I've cut out the poster and the pictures for obvious reasons but she is not "a hair" too big for the saddle in any way, whether it fits the horse is irrelevant when there is too much weight on a small area and all the comments are saying how good she looks! And stuff like this:

Plus then admin said all negative comments were deleted! This is the "pandering" that the OP was about! Comments have been turned off. I see so many on this particular Facebook page and it's not the adults on ponies one! Fuming!

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

This is exactly the sort of sh!t that we are competing with.
View attachment 123417
I've cut out the poster and the pictures for obvious reasons but she is not "a hair" too big for the saddle in any way, whether it fits the horse is irrelevant when there is too much weight on a small area and all the comments are saying how good she looks! And stuff like this:
View attachment 123418
Plus then admin said all negative comments were deleted! This is the "pandering" that the OP was about! Comments have been turned off. I see so many on this particular Facebook page and it's not the adults on ponies one! Fuming!

I saw the post this refers to and agree it was not just a hair too small. I do sort of see the admin's point about not dog-piling as if it's been said once, saying it multiple times can be a bit much. Overweight riders, among other things, does seem to be a bit of a theme in that group at times.

 

[GrassChop]

I saw the post this refers to and agree it was not just a hair too small. I do sort of see the admin's point about not dog-piling as if it's been said once, saying it multiple times can be a bit much. Overweight riders, among other things, does seem to be a bit of a theme in that group at times.

Yes, I agree from that perspective and think it is good that if you have a welfare concern, you can report it to admin. I'm hoping they make the poster aware that they are too heavy but who knows, clearly they just come back to defend why it's okay that they're riding anyway.
There is no way she is within 20% and the amount of people that are so insanely uneducated on it along with loads of "you look lovely hun xxx" is the biggest problem. I have the screenshots of the pictures if anyone wants to see them on PM, won't put them on here, though I suppose if you upload something to Facebook then you're allowing it to be public...

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Yes, I agree from that perspective and think it is good that if you have a welfare concern, you can report it to admin. I'm hoping they make the poster aware that they are too heavy but who knows, clearly they just come back to defend why it's okay that they're riding anyway.
There is no way she is within 20% and the amount of people that are so insanely uneducated on it along with loads of "you look lovely hun xxx" is the biggest problem. I have the screenshots of the pictures if anyone wants to see them on PM, won't put them on here, though I suppose if you upload something to Facebook then you're allowing it to be public...

A query on there today...is 16 and a half stone okay for a 15hh horse doing barrel racing?

I want to believe it's not real but even if it isn't there are people genuinely defending it.

 

[GrassChop]

A query on there today...is 16 and a half stone okay for a 15hh horse doing barrel racing?

I want to believe it's not real but even if it isn't there are people genuinely defending it.

I've just seen this too. Thankfully, there are a lot that are saying it's too much but there are still some that are saying it's okay.

 

[Orangehorse]

Just came back to this thread and responses to my post!
I’m not being unkind or judgemental but apart from some medical reasons, the majority of overweight people eat too many calories! If I had carried on with my bottle of Prosecco and family bag of crisps a night, then my weight would have continued to have crept up to 11 stone plus! At the age of 50, I decided to do something about it for the sake of my health and riding my 14.2 pony! I didn’t particularly look overweight but covered it well! The fact that I’m 50 and have lost nearly 2 stone in just over a year shows that it can be done! Although I do a lot of exercise now, it was pretty much cutting out crap from my diet which lost the majority of the weight! So considering I’m at the “menopausal” age where apparently weight starts to pile on, I decided to do something about it for the sake of my health and my pony!
It’s not like I lost a couple of pounds! I would say that nearly 2 stone is quite a significant weight! I have no intention of putting it back on and I know by following a healthy diet and exercising then I should be ok!

11 stone is not too much for a horse to carry. The overweight rider is the 15 stone +

 

[Ali27]

11 stone is not too much for a horse to carry. The overweight rider is the 15 stone +

11 stone is too much for my pony! Not for a 15.2 plus chunkier horse!

 

[Dave's Mam]

Oh I saw that post & it is awful.

 

[saddlesore]

Oh I saw that post & it is awful.

Post where?

 

[Surbie]

Yes, I agree from that perspective and think it is good that if you have a welfare concern, you can report it to admin. I'm hoping they make the poster aware that they are too heavy but who knows, clearly they just come back to defend why it's okay that they're riding anyway.
There is no way she is within 20% and the amount of people that are so insanely uneducated on it along with loads of "you look lovely hun xxx" is the biggest problem. I have the screenshots of the pictures if anyone wants to see them on PM, won't put them on here, though I suppose if you upload something to Facebook then you're allowing it to be public...

what group was that on?

 

[Dave's Mam]

Post where?

I'm not going to signpost. The actual post was shocking and the responses were equally crap. I felt the admin should have pulled the post.