pippinpie
Well-Known Member
No are you?
I said throught the Catwalk demo!
Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside
- Thread starter ponydentist
- Start date
I said throught the Catwalk demo!
Shysmum
Well-Known Member
more twists and turns than Midsomer Murders......so just who is telling the truth 
diamonddogs
Well-Known Member
Can I just say that Stoneleigh Park is owned by the Royal Agricultural Society of England (RASE) not the BHS, who have temporary offices there while their headquarters is being rebuilt at Stoneleigh Deer Park, two miles away, so please can we stop these "I'm seriously considering cancelling my membership of the BHS because of this" type posts.
They rent (or even own) a building on Stoneleigh Park, as do, to name but a few, the BEF, BE, BD, BS, The Pony Club, the NFU, Farmers Weekly, Lantra, and... Parelli.
Anyway, now I've got that out of my system...!
I have no problem with any method that works for my horse (another hard to bridle one, but I take the bridle to pieces and reassemble it on her head, taking as long as it takes to do so, though it's actually the bit she has a problem with), though I tend to favour the methods of Mark Rashid, Kelly Marks and Michael Peace, but no Parelli, thanks, because I've heard some very sad tales of horses being passed from pillar to post after Parelli training, which seems to be something you can't readily train them out of, for some reason. Time and patience seem to work best, I've found, qualities that come free of charge. Left handed ropes? Dear god, they'll be selling sky hooks and tartan paint next.
As far as personalities go, I've never had any time for either of the Parellis or Whitaker, even before all this furore.
They rent (or even own) a building on Stoneleigh Park, as do, to name but a few, the BEF, BE, BD, BS, The Pony Club, the NFU, Farmers Weekly, Lantra, and... Parelli.
Anyway, now I've got that out of my system...!
I have no problem with any method that works for my horse (another hard to bridle one, but I take the bridle to pieces and reassemble it on her head, taking as long as it takes to do so, though it's actually the bit she has a problem with), though I tend to favour the methods of Mark Rashid, Kelly Marks and Michael Peace, but no Parelli, thanks, because I've heard some very sad tales of horses being passed from pillar to post after Parelli training, which seems to be something you can't readily train them out of, for some reason. Time and patience seem to work best, I've found, qualities that come free of charge. Left handed ropes? Dear god, they'll be selling sky hooks and tartan paint next.
As far as personalities go, I've never had any time for either of the Parellis or Whitaker, even before all this furore.
martlin
Well-Known Member
Woaahh, steady now
you got me blushing here
I'm not that nice, honest, I just think before posting, that's all
GerasHorse
New User
A simple fact is that people who shout the loudest know the least. People are so quick to judge and it's perfectly normal and natural behavior. Calling Parelli names won't make you any better and won't make your horses any better. Pat has proved himself a million times - not to us, but to his horses, because it's their opinion that actually matters. If you don't understand the principles and the purpose then it does look like Pat is torturing the horse, however the follow-up videos say it all. Pat and Catwalk are putting on a bridle with confidence and for life! Pat and Catwalk did it together. Pat does things for the horse not TO the horse and it's a big difference. Catwalk will never have a bad bridling day again in his life. Pat did what he had to do for this horse - meaning he was assertive. It wasn't a lesson for us called "this is how you should bridle the horse", Pat has the knowledge and the ability to do things we can't and perhaps we don't understand. But asking for an appology from Parelli is like asking for an appology from the policeman who arrested your best friend for drunk driving.
Last edited:
mybaileysglide
Well-Known Member
So what has he actually apologised for then???
jahseh
Active Member
Actually my name isn't Parelli and I have no notion if he thinks horses know or understand or feel humiliation but I definitely don't. I think the concept of a horse feeling humiliated is ridiculous. That is my personal opinion and I am as entitled to that as you are to yours and he is to his. It is a totally different thing for someone to feel humiliated on the horses behalf and I am quite willing to believe that happened, but the other is again in my opinion anthropomophism at it's highest.
I am not sure about dignity either in the way it applies to how we feel as humans. I think a horse has an innate dignity a lot of the time something about their size strength ratio maybe not sure but I don't think it's something they are concious of as I have never seen a horse ashamed or self concious in the way a humiliated person is.
I do not speak for the parelli organization and don't know their thoughts on humiliation.
In respect to the seven games being fun or otherwise for a horse mine definitely enjoys six of them very much. The other one I don't think she minds but doesn't enter into with as much gusto as the others. I am sure not all horses would like them as much and some probably enjoy them more just as some horses like to jump and others don't, or work in a school or not, or hack out or not etc.etc.
I am not an inexperienced horse person in traditional terms and neither are lots of other people who practice Parelli techniques although some are, just as everyone is a novice at some point what ever form of horsemanship they are practicing. I am however a relative novice in Parelli techniques and found it a novel and somewhat uncomfortable experience to going back to being inept with equipment etc. as well as a challenge not to have the theory and pool of knowledge ready on tap at a subconcious level.
What ever you believe about the Parelli's personal motivations and whether you find their techniques, personal profiles, business practices etc. to be in line with everything they say to dismiss everything they offer in the way of education as if all of it has no value is just the other face of the coin you believe he is dealing!
As for being money spinning we live in a capitalist society and as far as I am aware it is not a crime to make money or even something most people find unacceptable, I haven't seen the Parelli tax returns and don't know how much net profit the business makes or the personal wealth of the parelli's as individuals. I don't know how they spend their personal money whether they indulge in huge conspicuous consumption or are massive philanthropists and I am not sure I care or that it is my or anyone elses business but theirs. If it has overwhelming importance for you perhaps you should look up the facts and figures so you can speak with authority or have you already done so?
To repeat what I have said in other posts lots of horses are ruined or damaged by inexperienced and bad handling in what ever form of horsemanship you are talking about. More by traditional methods badly done than by parelli or other natural horsemanship methods badly done simply because there are very many more people practicing what might be termed the traditional techniques than the NH methods and therefore the pool is much larger. I don't know percentage wise which is larger and I am sure a statistical answer would be very hard to arrive at. As to produce an accurate result you would have to use horses only ever handled by the one method, not a problem with traditionally trained horses more of a problem with the NH ones as again the pool is much narrower.
Lastly are we sure this was paid for or are the publics horses used in demos volunteered?
Last edited:
mybaileysglide
Well-Known Member
So, WHAT has he actually apologised for then????
jahseh
Active Member
Diamonddawg , I believe the left handed rope thing was explained a few posts before yours. Its a matter of the way it's twisted apparently I suppose it's another thing lefties need like left handed scissors etc.
post by pippinpie top of page 160.
post by pippinpie top of page 160.
mybaileysglide
Well-Known Member
So what has he actually apologised for then????!!!!!
mybaileysglide
Well-Known Member
This is really good to hear. Stereotypes heh?
Golf Girl
Well-Known Member
What? Yes he was there - where does it say otherwise? (credible evidence only please - not 'someone in the H & H forum said that someone said that someone said' etc etc)
baymareb
Well-Known Member
I love it when people state things as facts and others are supposed to just agree with it because they stated it. How is this a fact? Do you have any evidence to support it? Or are we just supposed to accept it because you say so?
I never thought it would. Nor is anyone here (or at least the majority) calling him names. They are however, unhappy with the way her treated Catwalk. That's not name-calling - it's opinion.
Ah, the one-two punch. The familiar "you just don't understand" followed by "the end justifies the means."
This implies that you DO understand but I won't hold my breath waiting for you to explain it to all us ingnoramuses who don't.
Then why was it done as a demo for the public? If it was for the horse, I would think it would have been done in a place less stressful for him.
Oh, *******s! as my good British friends here would say. Who is he - God? He does things people who have worked with horses all their lives can't understand? What a bunch of egotistical nonsense! And you know this how? Because HE says so?
SirenaXVI
Well-Known Member
mybaileysglide
Well-Known Member
PLEASE!!! CAN SOMEBODY EXPLAIN WHAT PARELLI APOLOGISED FOR EXACTLY???!!! I have asked this question 3 times and nobody will answer. AND, what exactly are the mistakes parelli admitted to making at the FOTH?
Last edited:
martlin
Well-Known Member
Because nobody knows, really
As far as I can understand, he apologised for people like you and me not understanding his superior training methods
mybaileysglide
Well-Known Member
Perhaps GerasHorse could elaborate. If somebody could kndly explain in depth the exact mistakes made and the reason for the apology it would go a long way towards our trying to understand parelli's thinking as a man.
Shysmum
Well-Known Member
regarding Robert Whitaker, a spokesman for him said " Robert just delivered Catwalk and then left Stoneleigh". So it was his party that said this, and it's not taken long to be proved untrue. see further up in this thread, I believe it was posted by a "Gerald...". Just thought I'd pointthat out - methinks if you haven't read the entire thread 
then you'll be missing a lot of the nitty gritty. sm x
then you'll be missing a lot of the nitty gritty. sm xpippinpie
Well-Known Member
The only people that could answer that are probably feed up with trying to explain anything to people who have consistently asked questions , got a reasonable answer only for it to be thrown back in our face as being part of some sort of cult and therefore any thing we say is rubbish, well I for one are feed up with it
There is a saying: don't put yourself out for someone going in the opposite direction'
IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, WHY DON'T YOU GO LOOK AT THE B*****Y YOU TUBE CLIP YOURSELF AND STOP SHOUTING AT US!
pippinpie
Well-Known Member
That post has been proven to have been a hoax, no-one from the Whitaker camp said that, and it is untrue.regarding Robert Whitaker, a spokesman for him said " Robert just delivered Catwalk and then left Stoneleigh". So it was his party that said this, and it's not taken long to be proved untrue. see further up in this thread, I believe it was posted by a "Gerald...". Just thought I'd pointthat out - methinks if you haven't read the entire thread
Shysmum
Well-Known Member
Oh, I'm so sorry, my mistake sm x
sm x
mybaileysglide
Well-Known Member
Excuse me but I promise you I'm not shouting. The you tube does not give a detailed explanation. I was actually hoping someone with parelli experience could give a detailed explanation. Not exactly asking a lot here, more a better understanding which nobody seems to either want, or can provide.The only people that could answer that are probably feed up with trying to explain anything to people who have consistently asked questions , got a reasonable answer only for it to be thrown back in our face as being part of some sort of cult and therefore any thing we say is rubbish, well I for one are feed up with it
There is a saying: don't put yourself out for someone going in the opposite direction'
IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, WHY DON'T YOU GO LOOK AT THE B*****Y YOU TUBE CLIP YOURSELF AND STOP SHOUTING AT US!
teddyt
Well-Known Member
PP 'shouts' pretty loudly. Parellitube, youtube, websites, uk headquarters, saddles, equipment, instructors, training system, dvds....... Hardly a shrinking violet is he?
He has proved that he hasnt got the patience he preaches and that he puts his ego above all else, yes.
That old chesnut. There was me thinking that a demonstration is to teach people. But then i just dont understand. I dont think i ever will tbh- if gum lines and wrapping ropes around the legs is supposed to be for the horse. If Pat really does have the ability to do things us lesser mortals cant then why does he put himself out there as a teacher? Cant be very good can he- if people dont understand his methods. How can his training programme be that brilliant if so many people dont understand it. And rather than just blaming it on peoples stupidity why doesnt he try to make people understand, if the methods are that great?
A bad workman blames his tools. Is it that people dont understand or is it that PP is wrong and just wont admit it?
pippinpie
Well-Known Member
Writing in CAPITALS is considered shoutingExcuse me but I promise you I'm not shouting. The you tube does not give a detailed explanation. I was actually hoping someone with parelli experience could give a detailed explanation. Not exactly asking a lot here, more a better understanding which nobody seems to either want, or can provide.
If you genuinely wish a respectful answer, you could try asking Tongue~n~cheek on her thread about Parelli questions. I'm all done being reasonable.
mybaileysglide
Well-Known Member
Writing in CAPITALS is considered shouting
If you genuinely wish a respectful answer, you could try asking Tongue~n~cheek on her thread about Parelli questions. I'm all done being reasonable.
Thankyou for informing me.
jahseh
Active Member
PP 'shouts' pretty loudly. Parellitube, youtube, websites, uk headquarters, saddles, equipment, instructors, training system, dvds....... Hardly a shrinking violet is he?
He has proved that he hasnt got the patience he preaches and that he puts his ego above all else, yes.
That old chesnut. There was me thinking that a demonstration is to teach people. But then i just dont understand. I dont think i ever will tbh- if gum lines and wrapping ropes around the legs is supposed to be for the horse. If Pat really does have the ability to do things us lesser mortals cant then why does he put himself out there as a teacher? Cant be very good can he- if people dont understand his methods. How can his training programme be that brilliant if so many people dont understand it. And rather than just blaming it on peoples stupidity why doesnt he try to make people understand, if the methods are that great?
A bad workman blames his tools. Is it that people dont understand or is it that PP is wrong and just wont admit it?
Back to language again, demonstration has more than one meaning and in the context of this or their other public demonstrations I don't think Parelli intend them as teaching events (as in go home and do this now you know its a miracle) nor are they specifically advertised as such as far as I know although you are invited to learn more about parelli in general. I think they are more demonstrations in the sense of public display of say like the red arrows (you wouldn't expect to fly a jet and do acrobatics after watching that would you? lol)
He makes lots of effort to get people to understand you have listed some of the ways at the top of your post, or did that somehow bypass you?
Understanding anything takes time and effort on the part of the student and knowledge usually isn't acquired in a blinding flash of revelation. After all you wouldn't expect to understand partical physics just because you knew 2 +2=4and 4x2=8 although if you didn't know the later I imagine understanding the physics might be difficult? If you don't study something you will never understand it and levels of understanding increase the more you study knowledge is not as far as I know finite. (unless of course you are god?)
pippinpie
Well-Known Member
I'm swimming against the tide here again and this maybe my last attempt to say why I don't believe that Catwalk was abuse in any way.
After a lifetime of horses both professional and private blah blah blah..... I considered myself pretty much a knowledgeable and caring horse owner, I didn't really think that I wanted/needed/could learn anything more after going through BHS qualifications and a very successful competition life for 40 years or more, that would enhance me or my horses lives, we were happy, all of us!
Then I heard/saw Parelli it blew my mind, not in a hour or a day or even a week, but months of reading, watching, understanding, realization that getting into the horses mind was more powerful than I could ever have imagined, horse psychology was something that had only been skimmed over in the past, but this was a new 'science' to me and I wanted to know more.
Many have commented on what Pat did to Catwalk and some people have said 'you don't understand' that was said in the same way as: If I saw a demo on acupuncture, I might come out and say that looks horrible, sticking needle in people and i can't see why they do it, then people would say that I didn't understand the theory or method, I would have to either take the time to learn about acupuncture and not go around saying what a load of rubbish they are just out to make money/con people, and abuse/dupe people.
So when people say that you don't understand stop taking as an insult, what they are saying is you don't understand Parelli, if you did you will have understood that Catwalk did not have just a bridling issue, it was much deeper than that, it was a fear/relinquishing leadership/trust issue, yes Catwalk was fearful of having his bridle on (because of a previous experience no doubt) but that was not his biggest problem that was just a symptom of it. Without addressing the underlying issues the bridling could not be dealt with. Catwalk lives in our world and for his own benefit he needs to be able to do these three things, trust, relinquish leadership and feel safe.
You also have to understand the tools that PP used and how they were used.Gum lines and twitches in expert hands are proven to aid pacifying a horse, (not going into the science on that now) leg restraints again not everyone is familiar with this method, looks horrendous to the onlooker who doesn't understand it uses in helping a horse understand that in relinquishing leadership is not a bad thing but the right thing.
Catwalk was not abuse at that demo, he was helped in a way that not everyone could understand.
Pat Parelli has made an apology not for what he did for catwalk but for any misunderstanding that arose from him not being able to fully explain his actions at the time and for any upset that the demo had caused anyone that saw it.
I really don't think he needs to apologise for any thing else.
There that my penny's worth
After a lifetime of horses both professional and private blah blah blah..... I considered myself pretty much a knowledgeable and caring horse owner, I didn't really think that I wanted/needed/could learn anything more after going through BHS qualifications and a very successful competition life for 40 years or more, that would enhance me or my horses lives, we were happy, all of us!
Then I heard/saw Parelli it blew my mind, not in a hour or a day or even a week, but months of reading, watching, understanding, realization that getting into the horses mind was more powerful than I could ever have imagined, horse psychology was something that had only been skimmed over in the past, but this was a new 'science' to me and I wanted to know more.
Many have commented on what Pat did to Catwalk and some people have said 'you don't understand' that was said in the same way as: If I saw a demo on acupuncture, I might come out and say that looks horrible, sticking needle in people and i can't see why they do it, then people would say that I didn't understand the theory or method, I would have to either take the time to learn about acupuncture and not go around saying what a load of rubbish they are just out to make money/con people, and abuse/dupe people.
So when people say that you don't understand stop taking as an insult, what they are saying is you don't understand Parelli, if you did you will have understood that Catwalk did not have just a bridling issue, it was much deeper than that, it was a fear/relinquishing leadership/trust issue, yes Catwalk was fearful of having his bridle on (because of a previous experience no doubt) but that was not his biggest problem that was just a symptom of it. Without addressing the underlying issues the bridling could not be dealt with. Catwalk lives in our world and for his own benefit he needs to be able to do these three things, trust, relinquish leadership and feel safe.
You also have to understand the tools that PP used and how they were used.Gum lines and twitches in expert hands are proven to aid pacifying a horse, (not going into the science on that now) leg restraints again not everyone is familiar with this method, looks horrendous to the onlooker who doesn't understand it uses in helping a horse understand that in relinquishing leadership is not a bad thing but the right thing.
Catwalk was not abuse at that demo, he was helped in a way that not everyone could understand.
Pat Parelli has made an apology not for what he did for catwalk but for any misunderstanding that arose from him not being able to fully explain his actions at the time and for any upset that the demo had caused anyone that saw it.
I really don't think he needs to apologise for any thing else.
There that my penny's worth
Last edited:
Siesz52
New User
Yeah sure. Sounds just like that U.S. military commander in Vietnam who justified the smoking ruins he left behind by saying: "To save the village, we had to destroy it." (This is from Chris Irwin's second book: Dancing with your Dark Horse" that I have translated into Dutch.)
Last edited:
mybaileysglide
Well-Known Member
I'm swimming against the tide here again and this maybe my last attempt to say why I don't believe that Catwalk was abuse in any way.
After a lifetime of horses both professional and private blah blah blah..... I considered myself pretty much a knowledgeable and caring horse owner, I didn't really think that I wanted/needed/could learn anything more after going through BHS qualifications and a very successful competition life for 40 years or more, that would enhance me or my horses lives, we were happy, all of us!
Then I heard/saw Parelli it blew my mind, not in a hour or a day or even a week, but months of reading, watching, understanding, realization that getting into the horses mind was more powerful than I could ever have imagined, horse psychology was something that had only been skimmed over in the past, but this was a new 'science' to me and I wanted to know more.
Many have commented on what Pat did to Catwalk and some people have said 'you don't understand' that was said in the same way as: If I saw a demo on acupuncture, I might come out and say that looks horrible, sticking needle in people and i can't see why they do it, then people would say that I didn't understand the theory or method, I would have to either take the time to learn about acupuncture and not go around saying what a load of rubbish they are just out to make money/con people, and abuse/dupe people.
So when people say that you don't understand stop taking as an insult, what they are saying is you don't understand Parelli, if you did you will have understood that Catwalk did not have just a bridling issue, it was much deeper than that, it was a fear/relinquishing leadership/trust issue, yes Catwalk was fearful of having his bridle on (because of a previous experience no doubt) but that was not his biggest problem that was just a symptom of it. Without addressing the underlying issues the bridling could not be dealt with. Catwalk lives in our world and for his own benefit he needs to be able to do these three things, trust, relinquish leadership and feel safe.
You also have to understand the tools that PP used and how they were used.Gum lines and twitches in expert hands are proven to aid pacifying a horse, (not going into the science on that now) leg restraints again not everyone is familiar with this method, looks horrendous to the onlooker who doesn't understand it uses in helping a horse understand that in relinquishing leadership is not a bad thing but the right thing.
Catwalk was not abuse at that demo, he was helped in a way that not everyone could understand.
Pat Parelli has made an apology not for what he did for catwalk but for any misunderstanding that arose from him not being able to fully explain his actions at the time and for any upset that the demo had caused anyone that saw it.
I really don't think he needs to apologise for any thing else.
There that my penny's worth
Think maybe a public demo was not quite the place to be using such methods and perhaps mr parelli should have not over-estimated the general viewing public's readiness to accept his chosen methods considering the general view and understanding of parelli horsemanship ideology.
pippinpie
Well-Known Member
The only people that could answer that are probably feed up with trying to explain anything to people who have consistently asked questions , got a reasonable answer only for it to be thrown back in our face as being part of some sort of cult and therefore any thing we say is rubbish, well I for one are feed up with it
There is a saying: don't put yourself out for someone going in the opposite direction'
IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, WHY DON'T YOU GO LOOK AT THE B*****Y YOU TUBE CLIP YOURSELF AND STOP SHOUTING AT US!
I have apologised to 'mybaileysglide' for being rude in my post, I'm affraid I let this thread get to me and took my frustration out on her.