Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

roo2012 said:
Yes - and Monty Roberts wasn't happy with that association.
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pretty sure I have seen youtube vids with monty using the leg tie technique to break horses in

*searches*

It looks horrid, but lots of supposed natural horse guys do seem to use it, just followed an endo link to an aussie guys vids and he was leg tying to do the TAP
 
Changes said:
Maybe I wasn't clear enough - followers of traditional sports see abuse within it and don't like it, people try and do something about it. I have yet to hear a Parelli convert find anything wrong with what Parelli do.
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No whtat I do agree with, I looked on FB and all the replies regarding Friday evening are positive, no on equestions the string used over the horses gum or the tying of the leg or the fact the horse went from being relaxed (after the saddle pad) to being stressed.

Now I have been using PNH for 7 years but use what works for me and my horse and don't do anything that I think may stress my horse out. I try other methods of Horsemanship and yes I use traditional methods as well especially when I rode dressage to train my horse in the carriage.

I attended a workshop a few years ago and I questioned the parelli instructor on two occasions. One reply was "That's a lot of what ifs" and the other reply was "Work it out" on both occasions my questions were not answered which both confusesd and upset me.

Incidently I complained about the day and got a full refund.

So while a lot of things using PNH has helped my horses I see things like those with Catwalk that I don't agree with.
 
cinammontoast said:
How many times do the Parellis have to f**K up before people stop licking their a***s?

I don't object to treating your horse as naturally as possible within the limits of riding it, but I really bloody object to tying a horse's leg up and claiming that you are 'gaining it's trust'. Duh!


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ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD GUYS???
well I think that just about sums it up nicely and well put.
 
Again, another Endo fan :) Watched most of his videos now, explored his website etc, it's really good stuff - not just trying to flog you expensive books/videos etc and at the end still saying 'but you'd be better off just paying us to come and 'fix' your horse for you!' like a lot of NH stuff seems to say.......

I admit, I quite like/don't mind Monty Roberts & Kelly Marks. It has become very much about the money though, for certain. I understand join up and have used it (with no help from anyone else!) and it's common sense.... oh, so is most of the rest!
Parelli..... when I first saw it, I thought 'wow, that looks great, I wish I could get my horse to co-operate like that' etc, like you do. You have to admit, some of the stuff they can get horses doing is fairly amazing. But.... after I started looking into it, it just seems like a load of bull sh*t. Very expensive bull sh*t at that. There also seem to be far too many horror stories revolving around it......

And when will people see sense and scrap the term 'natural horsemanship'? People doing anything except eating horses is far from natural....
 
elsbells said:
This will be brief as it would go on and on and others will be able to fill in the gaps I hope?

It all started well and the savvy riders were great, then Pat was introduced and he gave what I would expect to be the same talk on the princibles. Then Robert came in and gave a rough outline on his recently owned 7 year old jumping stallion Catwalk, and the fact that it was almost impossible to bridle him. Robert was not willing however to show us just how he did, but did though mention that he couldn't do it in a nice way.

Then the bay stallion was brought in, he was stunning and so well behaved cosidering the atmosphere and no doubt, his feeling of isolation from the other horses waiting outside.

It started well and Pat continued his talk as he led the stallion around the areana on a long rope. He talked of relationships, perceptions and of course the principles of love, language and leadership. Then he pulled it's head down as his is the Parrelli thing I guess? He then tried to touch Catwalks head and ears unsuccessfuly I might add and so became a little more forceful in his approach and asked to be brought in a saddle pad which he then slid up and down a distrssed Catwalks neck and over his face. This went on for a while and then he asked for music. The room went silent, all viewers went dumb as they watched him use a gum line as a twitch and a 22ft rope wrapped around the fetlock to the knee to haul Catwalks leg off the floor to render him unable to move while he tried to force the bride onto a now very distressed and frightened horses face!!

Catwalk hopped away and went down on his remaining knee and backed into the jump and the fence rails. Linda who'd had her face in hr hands up to this point, then raced around from her chair at the side of the areana and joined him in the fight, pulling at the rope while Pat continued to force on the bridle. The distressed horse managed to break away momentairily and run for the exit and safety. They caught him and started the whole process again where the horse stood.

I have to confess that at this point, we were unable to watch any more and had to walk out.
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Holy Moly............Id WHW witnessed someone doing that, I think they would say something. RSPCA would prob try to charge the person.

That sounds just like what Monty Roberts described as the barbaric way his father used to break in horses. All that is missing in the wooden post.
 
Ignition said:
Nice to see you still haven't managed to remove that stick from up your...
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LMAO!! Oh come on, lighten up. You're just peed off you got caught out mistaking The Horse Whisperer (novel) with The Man Who Listens To Horses, by Monty Roberts.
BTW, when have you and I ever had a conversation before, and when in the last six months or so, possibly longer have you read anything beyond the utterly banal that I might have posted on HHO? In fact, I would like to know precisely where the 'stick up *blank space*' comment comes from.
 
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KS1 said:
I haven't read all the posts as there are so any and they say roughly the same thing so do excuse me if I repeat anything already said.

I do know that the H&H site is anti Parelli to start with so I was very interested to see what views where given on the demo yesterday evening.

I have been using PNH for 7 years now and have always gained postive and remarkable results.
My YO and others have even commentated at how well behaved and happy my horses are. However I don't stick to PNH solely, I use whatever works for my horses giving them the happy life they deserve.
I went along to the evening PNH demo yesterday evening and it starteed in the usual way that I have seen countless times but I know they need to do all the usual intro's for people new to Parelli.

Anyway.. in came Catwalk,, I beautiful 7 yr old Stallion, he was calm and inquisitive and considering he had just been with Robert 8 weeks then put into this demo I thought he coped brilliantly.

Pat talked as he walked around the arena but he isn't just ambling around, if Catwalk went too far ahead Pat changed direction so that he was always the leader and Catwalk followed. It also give Catwalk the opportunity to absorb the surroundings and noises.

Pat spent time getting Catwalk used to being handled around his ears, eyes, head and muzzle.
He tied Catwalks leg up to that he was unable to place it down, it doesn't stop Catwalk moving around as someone here stated but it does make it more difficult and yes when Catwalk frst tried to move he went down on the tied leg but it did not distress him. Pat showed how he could quickly release the line if needed to for safety.

However I did not think there was anything natural about doing this and was disappointed to see it being carried out.

The saddle pad, this was brought in and used to desensitize Catwalk to having something placed over his head. This is not cruel, in fact it was nice to see a change in Catwalk, he softened and relaxed and was quite happy for the pad to go over his head.

This to me is the point where Pat should have Stopped..

Instead he carried on, putting his string into Catwalks mouth over his top gum was to me cruel, there was no need for this and again not natural in the slightest, I was appalled to see Monty Roberts use a similar technique which he calls a "Bucking Stap" and even more appalled to see Pat do this. A second line at one stage was put on Catwalk leg and I thought Pat would have explained why he did but whether I missed it I don't know but I never heard any explanation.

I can't remember at what point the string went into Catwalks mouth but the demo started at 7pm with talking for approx 30min, then Catwalk came in around 7.30pm approx. I left at 9.40pm and it was still going on. My mate said as I left Linda was going into the arena but I can't comment as I never saw what happened.

By the time my mate and I left we could only witrness Catwalk getting more distressed and fighting Pat more. On my journey home I said to me mate "I understand and follow PNH and I was shocked to see what went on, what on earth are those who watched PNH for the first time going to think and I am looking forward to hearing comments on H&H which I know there will be"

So for those that were disgusted with yesterdays performance I totally agree with you.

I am not there today (Sat) but I am back Sunday so it will be interesting to see if there is any improvement.

Now to see what was said on the Savvy Forum
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Can I just highlight the section where you say you were 'appalled' that you saw Monty Roberts using a bucking strap in the same way as Pat Parelli.
He certainly DOES NOT put rope into the horses mouths - he actually ties it from the saddle to the head piece of the bridle so that the horse cannot lower his head to allow him to buck.
Mr Roberts is not even in the same league as this plonker (putting it mildly)
 
PapaFrita said:
LMAO!! Oh come on, lighten up. You're just peed off you got caught out mistaking The Horse Whisperer (novel) with The Man Who Listens To Horses, by Monty Roberts.
BTW, when have you and I ever had a conversation before, and when in the last six months or so, possibly longer have you read anything beyond the utterly banal that I might have posted on HHO? In fact, I would like to know precisely where the 'stick up arse' comment comes from.
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It's called sarcasm.. of course I didn't think The Horse Whisperer was a documentary?!
 
Right i don't care if i offend anyone, but after reading the parelli facebook page, I am TOTALLY DISGUSTED at the fact that parelliens( Thats what they call themselves) think if you dont believe/practice parelli your an old tradtionlist and to quote a follower
'' I feel bad for those people that just don't understand the true meaning of a horses dignity and I pray that one day soon it will click with them too. For all the missunderstood horses sakes.''
So does this mean we dont love,care and look after our horses??
This parelli is basically a cult which bullys people into thinking that anyway but there way is right!! Thats **** with horses you never stop learning and the same things dont work on all horses!!!!!!!!!!
 
Horse Whisperer - as per my (much much!) earlier post. Bad book/film. Non horsey friends always focus on the sunlit finish, and not the lead up!

Loved this post, with or without anything stuck anywhere!
 
KS1 said:
No whtat I do agree with, I looked on FB and all the replies regarding Friday evening are positive, no on equestions the string used over the horses gum or the tying of the leg or the fact the horse went from being relaxed (after the saddle pad) to being stressed.

Now I have been using PNH for 7 years but use what works for me and my horse and don't do anything that I think may stress my horse out. I try other methods of Horsemanship and yes I use traditional methods as well especially when I rode dressage to train my horse in the carriage.

I attended a workshop a few years ago and I questioned the parelli instructor on two occasions. One reply was "That's a lot of what ifs" and the other reply was "Work it out" on both occasions my questions were not answered which both confusesd and upset me.

Incidently I complained about the day and got a full refund.

So while a lot of things using PNH has helped my horses I see things like those with Catwalk that I don't agree with.
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I like you :) [In a non-gay way!]

That's my exact point to my first original post on this thread. You're similar to what I beleive, some parts I'll use because it'scommon sense and it works...but not brain washed into the whole hog of things and DO actually see right and wrong with technques and don't just follow it like a religious trend!

No answers have still been put to my questions I asked repeated times as I was genuinely trying to understand the reasoning behind his methods mentioned here. All my questions were posted twice, and surely, rather than being slated on how 'narrow minded' we are on their FB page, one of them could have spread the Parelli love and enlightened me on what exactly Pat was doing instead? It's all fine saying 'they just don't understand' and 'bad reading' etc...but why not explain what was going on then if it's nothing that bad or out of rationality for the horse? Does that mean they do not know why he actually did this if not one person, out of all of them commenting on that status, can reply to any of the genuine questions on here?

You learn more through questioning....not following blindlessly. How many people when growing up at yards were told to do things, did them,and then wondered the meaning of them and actually questioned it? [Leading a horse from the left, not walking behind it unaware, not running up to them, red ribbons, not putting the safety clip on your stirrups, etc etc etc]

Answers on a post card please! :)
 
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