Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

'We'll keep you posted on Catwalk's progress over the next few weeks which will help those that don't understand see the fruits of passive persistence'




Jesus H Christ how can virtually tying a horse down be passive persistence - first the video and now this, the Parelli's may fall off their pedestal yet!
 
And Prat Parelli does it again! Good work, sounds like all is solved, tie him down, hobble him, maybe even sack him out next time eh? Sounds very bl00dy natural. Glad I wasn't there tbh. Come on Parelli fans, speak up, what exactly is the "thinking" behind this?
 
Their head groom is contemplating walking out over it, it has really upset her, apparently made the horse a lot worse on the ground, and she was shocked he allowed them to continue with him as they did.
I suppose you have to question, if it was your ride, whether you would allow that to have continued for quite as long as it did (which I am told was over 2hours?)
 
:eek: oh dear that sounds terrible
i have seen horse trainers use this approach before with little success
but never expected it of "parelli" even if they were to do it ,why do it in front of a crowd :eek: thats just asking for trouble/complaints

iv'e never really been a fan ,as far as im concerned parelli just sucks in and encourages mainly novice horse owners to ride there less than well handled/trained horses with no bridle or hat (don't know if they where them now but never used to) and i think its all a bit of a faddy money making sceem
so i wouldn't do it myself but not offended by anyone that does (except when they are out with there carrot sticks and rope halters and come across me ridding a 3yr old and promptly loose control and let go of there horse :eek: , luckily mine remained calm )

each to there own really but this should not have been done in public :( can you imagine all the know it alls/wannabys who are going to go home and try this them selves :(

i think parelli has a lot to answer to, this is terrible

(would like to see video ,but from the sounds of this , im fairly sure without hearing other side of story that this is terrible)
any one got an email add from the venue ,maybe worth contacting the show
 
No Jess, please do not encourage them to come on here - they will in their own time, however I think each side of the argument should wait until some kind soul puts vid footage up so each individual can make their own opinion.
 
I was at the demo last night.

I was really impressed with how calm Pat stayed and how much softer and more relaxed the horse was by the end of the evening.

Sometimes it is easy to pass judgement on things that we do not understand.

Pat has continued to work with Robert and help the horse today and the horse has been checked by the show vet who said there were no problems at all.

At no point did the horse look distressed or even get worked up. He was a pretty extreme horse and had learnt to say NO but had been bullied and pushed into wearing a bridle again and again anyway. Robert has only had him for a few weeks but I am sure that with Pat's team and Robert's amazing skill and patience this horse will be able to go on and live up to his potential without having to be battled into his bridle everyday.

These are just my thoughts anyway
 
I had a horse who became difficult to bridle in that he wouldn't accept the bridle going over his ears. When this started to be a problem, vet was called out and turned out said horse had an ear infection. That was sorted out but as a result, he would not accept the bridle going over his right ear - he was the kind of horse who if he worked out how he could say no would stick to it.

So the compromise (and IMO considerably more uncomfortable) was to undo the bridle by undoing the right cheekpiece drop the head piece over the ears, slip the bit in and then do up the cheek strap. Unfortunately the couple of times I had persisited in putting a bridle on when his ears were sore were enough to turn him for life and I honestly don't think any other method would have resulted in anything other than a fully fledged fight and hysterical horse.



I am sceptical - as a for instance, in the book, the horse whisperer - great he turns the horse around but ... in reality ... would you as an owner have put the horse through everything he had to suffer to get there? that part really galls me.
 
Last edited:
Hi Weezy,

no, in MY opinion that horse was not scared or distressed. I think we may have to agree to disagree on that which is fine.
 
laura77 said:
I was at the demo last night.

I was really impressed with how calm Pat stayed and how much softer and more relaxed the horse was by the end of the evening.

Sometimes it is easy to pass judgement on things that we do not understand.

Pat has continued to work with Robert and help the horse today and the horse has been checked by the show vet who said there were no problems at all.

At no point did the horse look distressed or even get worked up. He was a pretty extreme horse and had learnt to say NO but had been bullied and pushed into wearing a bridle again and again anyway. Robert has only had him for a few weeks but I am sure that with Pat's team and Robert's amazing skill and patience this horse will be able to go on and live up to his potential without having to be battled into his bridle everyday.

These are just my thoughts anyway
Click to expand...

Mmmmmmm, this is from someone who has not posted since May 07 and then only on Pareli?
Suspicious???? You bet!
 
laura77 said:
Hi Weezy,

no, in MY opinion that horse was not scared or distressed. I think we may have to agree to disagree on that which is fine.
Click to expand...

No disagreement from me, I have not seen any footage and as I have said earlier, I will reserve judgement until I see some :) It was merely a question, as usually horses who break free and run ARE distressed, i.e. the flight instinct kicks in :)
 
elsbells said:
Mmmmmmm, this is from someone who has not posted since May 07 and then only on Pareli?
Suspicious???? You bet!
Click to expand...

What on earth are you suspicious about?! She does have the right not to post unless she wants to! So, Laura is a Parelli follower, that is her call, and she has the right to defend what SHE saw last night if she so wants to.
 
My old KWPN had serious bridling problems which resorted to me (after the vet having checked everything out) each and every time I rode having to take the bridle completely to pieces, first place headpiece over head, then attach brow band etc etc. It took a lot of work and assistance and she will still have off days but she came around and is now 99% perfect for her new owners. If you had tried to strap her down like this I shudder to think of the damage she would have done to herself and those around her in her panic.

And the thing that infuriates me is that this isn't something that is verging on abuse going on behind closed doors but being given as a demonstrations by someone who (rightly or wrongly) is looked up to and see as a role model to many many less experienced horse people. I dread to think what will happen if someone else decides to try this at home.

Keep refreshing my youtube search waiting for a vid!!
 
So tell me Laura.

How is gum twitching and tying it's forlock to his leg 'natural' and fair to the horse on any level? I'm not saying I disagree or agree with these methods...BUT, if you're going to do them, do not dare to label it under Natural Horsemanship.

Surely, if a horse has that much of a deep rooted problem, then you'd start from scratch and gain it's trust [their version of the words too] as the problem began as a youngster. So as Brighteyes said, wading in there with such force and directness surely any idiot can see is NOT going to work?
If the horse is that objectional, then putting such direct pressure and restraint [ie, tying it] on it, will NOT help him mentally or other.

If you're going to preach your version of these 'godly' games and religion of training horses 'naturally with trust, love, understanding and relationships' then ropes ties and force should not come into it to get the desired result.

I'm no Parelli fan at all and quite honestly, this 'show' doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Surely this has to speak words in itself.

But again JMO.

Maybe, as I obviously don't have the intellect to understand 'their way', you could care to enlighten me with reasoning to the above. :)
 
Last edited:
Weezy said:
What on earth are you suspicious about?! She does have the right not to post unless she wants to! So, Laura is a Parelli follower, that is her call, and she has the right to defend what SHE saw last night if she so wants to.
Click to expand...

Because I don't believe her and I don't believe that she's a genuine poster, that is why, straight and simple and I make no apologies for it. Although am sorry if your offended by that but I'm as mad as a snake about it all.

I was there, I saw the abuse and if anone else hog tied and twitched a horse out the front of your house, you would of called the police would you not?
 
feel a little dim but what is a gum line? when you say used a gum line to twitch?

just trying to make sure I get what happened right! :o
 
I've had A LOT of horses who have been difficult to bridle and three who have been really extreme. NEVER have I had to go to lengths like these to sort them out. I have in the past had horse in a head collar with a rope from headcollar tied to his foreleg so he can't lift head or run away but only after exploring any underlaying issues with the horse. A horse tied to itself in this way quickly figures out he can't move off and normally won't try to, our chap who came in and had this treatment was basically taking the pee out of his owner and after a weeks work problem was solved and he could be tacked up loose in a stable. Taking the whole bridle apart is also an option, but really there are a hundred different ways to get a difficult to bridle horse to accept it, I don't see this parelli method as doing any good at all esp. as horses who are normally bad to bridle are sensitive to having their faces touched, so twitching often makes them worse.
 
Just for interest....

EAR SHY? By Pat Parelli
Can you touch your husband's ears? What about your best friend's, your child's or your mother's?
If you couldn't then there's probably something wrong with the relationship! This is how I want you to think of your horse's so-called 'problem'. If he doesn't like his ears to be touched its because deep down inside, he does not trust you. There is a flaw in your relationship.
When I talk about the solution here I am going to give you the natural approach, the one that consider's the horse's point of view. To effect a 'cure' you have to gain his trust and permission. The normal way is often to force the horse to accept it, twitch him, tie him, throw him…. In my mind (and in the horse's I'm sure) this is akin to rape and I won't use it.
So to do it with the horse's permission may seem to take a little time, technique and knowledge, but if you do it right you won't have to do it over
Click to expand...


Indeed....
 
"pass the popcorn"
oh mine won't have "its" mane pulled think ill go tie all "its" legs together ,then tie his jaw to his knees ,then ill be able to pull away as much as i want :)

on a more serious note some idiots would actually go home and do this :eek:

why does't rob just take bridle apart etc ,there are ways around this problem and after all its his grooms that would have to faf about
i once watched a horse showjumping ,think it was a nations cup in spruce medows a few year ago with no bridle , just had the bit in his mouth ,there was prob a strap of some sort holding it there but it is possible
my old mare had a prob with her bridle some days you'd get it on others she argued.
i tried ridding in just a snaffle and reins no bridle at all and she was fine (see idiots do copy the pros lol ) i could ride her with just rope round her neck though (not parelli) so if it did drop out i wasn't really going anywere but only ever did it in the school.
it didn't half make me keep a contact and did our schooling the world of good although it was pretty stupid of me so DONT TRY THIS AT HOME :D
 
Scuse me, while I nip to the yard and hobble, twitch my burnt out, chucked in the towel and very disobedient ex-grade B showjumper mare for a couple of hours.

It took me nearly a year of patience and damm hard work for her to trust me, for her to offer her head to be stroked, her ears and nose to be cleaned and for to be willingly bridled. But what Pat showed us last night proves what a great waste of time that was!!

Wish I knew before.
 
I'm not arguing the extent of the horses problem, it obviously is not your normal 'no, shan't, can't, won't' case where a simple thing like taking the bridle apart will solve.
I fully understand how bad the horse must be with the bridling issue.

I don't however, understand the justification of the things mentioned previously....that's where I want the reasoning explained by anywho who can.

They say people 'don't understand', so enlighten me.

Edited - I also rate Endo and always liked watching his vids for an 'alternative' way of dealing with problems. He doesn't claim to be anything but himself nor false labels it 'Natural Horsemansip'.
 
Last edited:
I would be really interested to see video of this. It sounds just awful though. I have posted before that my mare was helped by a parelli/really smart horsewoman. At no time was my mare hurt, she would have reacted badly to any form of aggression. She was never battered by carrot stick, clip on rope or anything else. i wouldn't have allowed that to happen. She worked with the 2 of us to get the mutual respect and trust thing. I went from having a total neurotic, aggressive, frightened horse who scared the pants off me, to having a brilliant riding horse who i have an amazing bond and relationship with. We have been together for 7 years now and I can safely say that it was the help i had from the p word plus good horsemanship that dug us out of a big hole. I am not saying that nothing else would have done the job, but that is what presented itself to me at the time and I am truly grateful to this lady and the method that she used. I used it as a means to an end, as I just wanted her sane enough to bring on and ride, which we do on a daily basis, So haven't done any of the games for quite some time. I had no interest in taking the games or levels any further than i did.

However, I did see the linda P thing with the half blind horse and found it disgusting. What I have seen there and what i have heard here about catwalk, seems to bear no resemblance to the methods that were used for us. What has happened to these people to make them seem so extreme now? Have they just got too big for their boots or what?
To be honest, I wouldn't dream of going to any of their demos now or really associate myself with any of it at all now, it seems that it has grown into a monster!

I think if you saw the lady who helped me and some of her liveries working with some of their horses, you would change your mind about the 'old' parelli. It is kind, done with really subtle body language and all the horses are happy and stressless.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top