Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

teddyt said:
Seems tere are lots of incidents involving these so called professionals that have left people appalled. If it really is just a case of 'us' misunderstanding parellis methods there are an awful lot of people out there that appear to be stupid!
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Or a lot of Parelli teachers who can't teach for toffie ;) :p
 
This is getting a little silly now.

Of course the whole thing was officially filmed, but we're never going to see the footage.

If the Parellis really believe that this was suitable for a demo, they would be releasing it now, as damage control. The fact that they're not, suggests that they feel otherwise.

And before a Parellist jumps on me and says that the footage cannot be released as we wouldn't understand it, may I remind you that it was filmed AT A PUBLIC DEMONSTRATION EVENT.
 
if anyone fancies a laugh you ought to look on the parelli natural horsemanship facebook page ,they are nuts on there. i am shocked at how they are trying to justify the treatment of that horse ,and also saying how it would have gone for dog food if pp had not helped it ,now i have worked with top name showjumpers and if the horse is worth the money that one is they are not gonna sell it to the knacker man for a few quid coz they struggle to get its bridle on ,i have never seen so much **** written on one web page ,as someone said earlier its like a cult ! i have never been in to the brand "parelli" as i have always thought it was just con ,im sorry but a "carrot stick" and paying fortunes for a dvd ,more money than sence i say. if pat and linda parelli really gave a toss about the horses would they not sell there dvd and equipment at a low price so all people could try it if they wanted ? thats my rant anyway ,
 
I just find it bizzare that any member of the Whittaker family needs to get anyone from outside the family in to sort out a problem with a horse! I simply muse on how much PP paid to use this horse in the demo. :p
 
If the BHS have had more than a few calls regarding an issue they will investigate.

James is a 3* instructor so yes he works under the parelli name, one thing I like about James is he is not brainwashed with Parelli. As an example in his words he does not think the circling game where you stand still not moving your feet while the horse walks, trots or canters around you is good. He stated that you can't watch your horses movement while it is behind you but on the samenote does not like the often seen approach to nagging a horse when it is already doing what you have asked. "Walk on, walk on, cluck cluck , walk on nag nag nag"

He plays with each horse as an individual and is more interested in helping horses get a good start in life or help horses that people have created problems with rather than travel the country to make money.

He has also been known to give free clinics with you and your horse at his establishment. So for him its not about making money.

What amazes me is that I am trying hard to see points from both sides, not make my own assumptions as I never examined catwalk, I am not the vet, I am just someone who too got upset at seeing a gum line used and to see catwalk go from being relaxed to becoming more stressed when the bridle was intorduced.

What I do see here is while people are concerned about Catwalk the topic sees to be steering about attacking Parelli in general. I know .. I know it was a Parelli demo but I don't think its the Parelli programme to blame here just the man himself and the decisions he made.

So what if someone works for Parelli it does not instantly make them a bad person. I only made that comment as instantly someone said "Does he work for Parelli" when I posted James reply.

I am just like you all in the sence that it was upsetting to see catwalk unsettled, however I also feel Robert Whitaker should have considered his horse more but hardy anyone seems to make any digs at him.

He had only bought Catwalk 8 weeks ago, no where near enough time to allow Catwalk to settle in fully in the new surroundings and how long was he at Robert's yard before being put straght into training?
Then Catwalk is taken to a new venue with and used for a demo, that horse was so good to cope with all that and could have been a real effort to work with but he was brilliant considering.

All seemed great right up to where the bareback pad was used then when I thought Pat should have stopped he carried on. That is the one thing I would like to know as it is always said to us to stop on a good note. Pat never on Friday.

Please don't think I am taking sides which I have said a few times as I am not, I am trying to understand, its like sitting in on a court case listening to evidence with both sides giving there versions and then waitng in anticiption to the jury's decision and even then the truth is sometimes unknown.
 
_JH_ said:
Robert got into parelli as his friend practices it and was doing a demonstration of it at the British Open. It's not about money, I don't see why people would think it was.
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If you had ever played dominoes for 10p a corner with Donald and listened to the stories then you would see why people would think it was :D
 
Well Shutterfoto I have had a very long association with stallions and there is something you learn early on, you need them to respect you not fear you.
A frightened stallion easily turns into a very angry one, which is dangerous.
I didn't see the demo so can't really comment other than from the reports on here, but from what they say PP attempted to subdue the stallion into submission to be bridled.
This is the silliest possible method, and asking for trouble.
The Whittakers are so experience dhtey will I am absolutely sure have tried many methods of solving the problem, from checking the stallion has no minor old injury under the headpiece area to his mouth. The most sensible way to deal with this would in my opinion to have him wear an ultrasoft perfectly fitting bridle all the time minus the bit and reins, which you would clip on when necessary.
It would be no worse that wearing a headcollar.
There is something intrinsically wrong when you see a horse totally dominated by someone, I have seen a few in demos, and it's not a nice thing to watch. They aren't being with them as in a Monty R demo because they wan to be there, they are doing it because they are too damn scared not to be, which is hugely different.
Sadly the P machine has such good publicity you see hundreds of followers behaving like sheep much as the dominated horses do.
Watch carefully at the next demo, and the horses stay near the handlers because they are worried about displeasing them, something 100% different from wanting to be with them. When you are experienced enough to see that happening, then you don't like what you see.
But as a P follower I can't ever see you being open minded enough to even consider anything they do is wrong, it's very like brainwashing.
I've spent most of my life with horses, made some horrendous mistakes, beaten horses, trained them well, learned how they tick and can I think now see what works and what doesn't.
I can move whole herds of them from field to field with one yell; be followed nose in back without a headcollar by any of them etc and still realise I can only touch the surface of the real knowledge I need to handle them properly. We don't use titbits etc just the horse behaviour they exhibit in their natural lives.
(we also use traditional training methods to achieve success eventing too)
I can't agree what he appears to have done is the right way to treat this horse, so we will have to agree to disagree.
 
LOL this is where you see another side of me, now while I like some Parelli methods the star rating doesn't speak volumes.

This is my understanding only and I may have a few details wrong but here it is...

Here is goes on becoming a star rated instructor you need to either go to america and attend a 10 week course or attend a fast track course in the UK or the USA and also complete a 6 week course in the USA.

All these courses costs thousands, just to attend a 6 week course you are talking in the region of £10,000. That incudes flights, hire of horse and accommodation etc.

You are then given your 1* rating, you then have to do 50 hours of teaching and attend another 6 week course to gain your 2*

I then think you need to teach for a year and attend another 6 week course to gain your 3* and so forth.

In other words to me you need not to have any knowledge of horse care and management or have experience with working with various horses.

Instead if you can take time off work, have loads of money to spend you can become a parelli instructor oh and you must pay to parelli a yearly sum to be licensed with them if you don't pay this fee you cannot call yourself a star rated instuctor or use the parelli name.

So if you decide to break away and become freelance you've spent thousands for nothing apart from having gained some experience.

Now what gets me is these intructors could have no idea of horses on a proper scale. I mean I have a HND diploma in horse care and management but if you asked me anything about it now there is loads I have forgotten. So just because you have a bit of paper or a coloured string does not make you a good trainer/instructor etc.

Mind some catch up revision would soon bring things back to me but what I am saying is just because you have attend a 6 week course and given some lessons does not mean your a good instructor, crickey I have seen loads of BHS qualified people who were C**p at teaching and caused more problems than they were paid to correct.

Hope that expalins what a star rated instructor is

oh and to simplify

1* Instructor can only teach On-line (for free)
2* Instructor can only teach On-Line and Freestyle (at a reduced rate)
3* Instructor can only teach On-Line, Freestyle and Liberty
4* Instructor can teach On-Line, Freestyle, Liberty and Finesse

Level 3* and 4* I think can charge what they like.

Private lessons can range between £60 and £75 per hour which to me is crazy but some people do pay it.
 
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Cheers Munchkin, how do you get to see if a petition is started and see posts made by people, I could not see anything
 
henryhorn said:
I've spent most of my life with horses, made some horrendous mistakes, beaten horses, trained them well, learned how they tick and can I think now see what works and what doesn't.
I can move whole herds of them from field to field with one yell; be followed nose in back without a headcollar by any of them etc and still realise I can only touch the surface of the real knowledge I need to handle them properly. We don't use titbits etc just the horse behaviour they exhibit in their natural lives.
(we also use traditional training methods to achieve success eventing too)
I can't agree what he appears to have done is the right way to treat this horse, so we will have to agree to disagree.
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Am loving your honesty. I think most of us would have to admit to having made big mistakes. Some of us even try and learn from them and henryhorn - sounds like you did just that. Well done that chap :)
 
henryhorn said:
Well Shutterfoto I have had a very long association with stallions and there is something you learn early on, you need them to respect you not fear you.
A frightened stallion easily turns into a very angry one, which is dangerous.
I didn't see the demo so can't really comment other than from the reports on here, but from what they say PP attempted to subdue the stallion into submission to be bridled.
This is the silliest possible method, and asking for trouble.
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I was on a yard with my horses that had to run as a stud yard first and as a livery yard second because of the church, the YO was clueless, not been involved with horses for 20 years and she was the novice of novices. The stallion a beautiful golden Wesh Section D was not an easy horse to manage. The YO would lead him out with a heavy cane and either a bridle or a headcollar with the chain wrapped around his nose and he still dragged her to whereever he wanted to go. When she wanted him schooled or ridden it was me that did this and I found him a pleasure. I tried many a time to convince her bullying him or trying to dominate him was the wrong thing. She even got another novice to race him on the lunge line for 10 min and they were both pleased at the fact he was dripping in sweat. I shook my head in disgust.

After that I refused to help her as I was being steady and gaining respect albiet slowly while they undid my work in seconds. I left the yard over a year ago as it was becoming a safety hazard for my horses and I did not like seeing how the horses were treated. They are now being watched and monitered by WHW.

I myself am not experienced in handling stallions on a long term schedule but I know enough not take them for granted and to respect them at all times.
 
In response to Charlotte Dennis and Dave Stewart, they planned from a early start to set up EE, along with other members of staff of the Parelli organisation. Right from when Pat and Linda first came to the UK.

You could see applications from years ago to set up Equine Ethology (EE). Of which the name was also in battle with the initals EE being also associated with Enlightened Equitation.

It is also my understanding that they used the name of PNH to help set themselves up which became a legal battle.

Most that follow PNH stuck by Parelli and the first conference set up by Charlotte and David at which Ray Hunt and Carl Hester where present did not fare well and EE collapsed. Charlotte and Dennis then went freelance and though I hear nothing of Charlotte I do see David still gives clinics.
 
chrisnapthineEDT said:
We are truely shocked at what has happened and knew nothing of the treatment as robert dropped catwalk off and did not stay to see the demonstration,
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With the greatest of respect... if you had a horse that was severely bridle-shy and took it to a "professional", wouldn't you at least hang around to see how they got on??? I know I would!

Something about this does not ring true......
 
Are there are more videos (apart from all of the ones shown on this thread) showing more intense interaction between Pat Parelli and the horse? I cant see anything on any of those videos that horrifies me like it seems to have horrified the majority of the posters on this thread. Its all a bit melodramatic to me.
 
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