Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

Crackerz said:
ahhhh they'd love me, Atheist AND Anti-PNH ;)

The brainwashed people commenting on FB and Linda's blog sicken me almost as much as the video does
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Yup, I read a lot of PP books, I stayed awake through quite a few of his DVDs that a friend lent me. I have read the Bible from cover to cover and thought about PP and the Bible and come to the same conclusion it's all a load of tosh...sadly both Bible bashers and PP devotees won't leave me alone to wallow in my pit of delusion.
I did read about it, I did investigate, but because I didn't follow it I am branded as some kind of narrow minded bigot.

Never mind, us atheists have broad shoulders.
 
MadasaFerret said:
Yup, I read a lot of PP books, I stayed awake through quite a few of his DVDs that a friend lent me. I have read the Bible from cover to cover and thought about PP and the Bible and come to the same conclusion it's all a load of tosh...sadly both Bible bashers and PP devotees won't leave me alone to wallow in my pit of delusion.
I did read about it, I did investigate, but because I didn't follow it I am branded as some kind of narrow minded bigot.

Never mind, us atheists have broad shoulders.
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I can accept you are an atheist, but I hate the term 'Bible Bashers'....I'm a gnostic myself....
 
savvylover112 said:
Catwalk appeared to be an extreme horse and extreme methods where put in place for an extreme horse.

Another thing I would like people to consider is the fact of how different stallions are handled by everyone than mares and geldings. They are kept in confinement away from most horses and will try to defend their territory when they feel threatened and they tend to feel threatened a lot of the time. All stallions can appear to be the same as all horses but they are dominant and extreme. Pat needed to be the dominant figure in the equation and it appears he had to be extreme in asserting his dominance.

Shauna
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If you think Catwalk appeared to be an extreme horse I can only assume your experience of difficult horses is very limited. There was nothing at all extreme in the behaviour I have seen in the video - if it was extreme at any other time, can someone enlighten me?

And FYI while some people may still keep stallions in confinement away from other horses, that shows a complete lack of understanding of a stallion's needs. Stallions who are well socialised and well trained are not 'dominant' or 'extreme' - they are just horses with a few 'extras'! And I saw nothing in Catwalk's behaviour that indicated 'dominance' (btw this is an obsession with Parelli-ites, who seem not to know what social dominance actually is). Want to create fear and panic in a horse? Tie a leg up so he can't escape! When Catwalk reared, he was not being 'dominant' - he was trying to escape the restraint. Using that - and the fact that Catwalk is a stallion - as an excuse for PP's appalling ineptitude in dealing with Catwalk just won't wash among truly knowledgeable horse people. PP didn't need to assert his 'dominance' (whatever that means) - he just needed to try something different as soon as it became apparent that his tactics weren't working (personally, I'd have gone down the positive reinforcement route from the start - that's how we solve problems like that & it works every time - especially suited to stallions.Why introduce confrontation when you don't need to? ). But I guess his ego's too big for that...

Incidentally, stallions aren't territorial...they defend their families and their personal space, not a 'territory'. Gain their trust and liking, and they won't feel threatened and won't become defensive and therefore aggressive - which is so often misinterpreted as 'dominance'. (Sigh)
 
KS1 explained the parelli professional star ratings in a post, just to add-

parelli now offer a 1 week classroom course to obtain a 1* after which they would teach 50 hours for free, once this is done they can then charge for 'online' lessons.

they can then go on to do a further one week classroom course to obtain 2* after which they can teach 'online' and riding.

as long as these people are willing to pay £4000-£5000 for the week course I believe qualifications or experience do not matter.

It is just another part of the money making machine that is parelli.
 
drover said:
KS1 explained the parelli professional star ratings in a post, just to add-

parelli now offer a 1 week classroom course to obtain a 1* after which they would teach 50 hours for free, once this is done they can then charge for 'online' lessons.

they can then go on to do a further one week classroom course to obtain 2* after which they can teach 'online' and riding.

as long as these people are willing to pay £4000-£5000 for the week course I believe qualifications or experience do not matter.

It is just another part of the money making machine that is parelli.
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Lordy, sounds like the barefoot training too....... :p
:D
 
Do you ready think it was that bad. We go hunting regular and the whole point of the exercise is to exercise our horses and keep the fox population down. The dogs tear the animal apart. Also ive seen people do some really awful things to horses!! punch, kick and shout.

Have we any grounds to put down other peoples ways of training horses, when the horse world is just as bad and probably worse!!!
 
drover said:
KS1 explained the parelli professional star ratings in a post, just to add-

parelli now offer a 1 week classroom course to obtain a 1* after which they would teach 50 hours for free, once this is done they can then charge for 'online' lessons.

they can then go on to do a further one week classroom course to obtain 2* after which they can teach 'online' and riding.

as long as these people are willing to pay £4000-£5000 for the week course I believe qualifications or experience do not matter.

It is just another part of the money making machine that is parelli.
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Just to set the record straight, Re: experience =level 3 or 4 plus many weeks of on campus training.
Copied from their official web site:
Prerequisites for gaining a 1* instructors certificate:
1. Be a Savvy Club for a minimum of one year.
2. Minimum of 18 years of age at start of program.
3. On Campus Education Requirement (any one of the following):
a) 4-Week Fast Track on campus training (2010) OR
b) 4-Week Master Class Retro (2008-2009) OR
c) 6 Weeks of retro classes since 1996
4. Level 3 or 4 graduate (officially or self-assessed – document to be supplied).
5. Pass your Professional Aptitude Test which consists of three main parts:
Part 1: 1-Star Instructor Course Aptitude test.
Part 2: 1 – 3 minutes of you introducing yourself and telling us why you will make a great
Parelli Instructor.
Part 3: 30 Minutes of non-edited Horse-Man-Ship footage showing the following..........
 
anitacollier said:
Do you ready think it was that bad. We go hunting regular and the whole point of the exercise is to exercise our horses and keep the fox population down. The dogs tear the animal apart. Also ive seen people do some really awful things to horses!! punch, kick and shout.

Have we any grounds to put down other peoples ways of training horses, when the horse world is just as bad and probably worse!!!
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I agree there is abuse in abundance in the horse world, but I would like to bet that the majority of posters on this thread, and I include the Parelli people here, do NOT abuse their horses. The day we stop pouncing on someone who does commit abuse is the day we stop being horse lovers and become horse users. Are you suggesting that we should close our eyes because 'it has nothing to do with me'?

Pat Parelli has set himself up as a master horseman who uses kindness, patience and all things natural - after his performance on Friday people are seeing him as he really is.
 
anitacollier said:
Do you ready think it was that bad. We go hunting regular and the whole point of the exercise is to exercise our horses and keep the fox population down. The dogs tear the animal apart. Also ive seen people do some really awful things to horses!! punch, kick and shout.

Have we any grounds to put down other peoples ways of training horses, when the horse world is just as bad and probably worse!!!
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That's an absurd argument. It's like saying that because the Nazis commited horrendous genocide, we shouldn't complain about wife/child beaters because it's just not as bad.
When you saw the people do those awful things, did you do something about it? If so what? If not, why not? Personally I'm still reserving judgement on the PP vs Catwalk debacle until I've seen the whole video. What I have seen is not so much 'abuse' (in the traditional sense) as clumsy, rough handling, and from someone who preaches kindness, tolerance and patience AND has the b*ll*cks to proclaim his is the ONLY humane way, that is just not on.
I don't give a monkey's what technique people use to train their horses, as long as it does not cause pain, confusion or fear. In this regard LP and PP have both scored a huge and public FAIL.
 
pippinpie said:
Just to set the record straight, Re: experience =level 3 or 4 plus many weeks of on campus training.
Copied from their official web site:
Prerequisites for gaining a 1* instructors certificate:
1. Be a Savvy Club for a minimum of one year.
2. Minimum of 18 years of age at start of program.
3. On Campus Education Requirement (any one of the following):
a) 4-Week Fast Track on campus training (2010) OR
b) 4-Week Master Class Retro (2008-2009) OR
c) 6 Weeks of retro classes since 1996
4. Level 3 or 4 graduate (officially or self-assessed – document to be supplied).
5. Pass your Professional Aptitude Test which consists of three main parts:
Part 1: 1-Star Instructor Course Aptitude test.
Part 2: 1 – 3 minutes of you introducing yourself and telling us why you will make a great
Parelli Instructor.
Part 3: 30 Minutes of non-edited Horse-Man-Ship footage showing the following..........
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I am told by a parelli instructor of at least 3 cases of instructors now with 1* or 2* instructor titles who met very few of the pre-requisites you state and it was down to the fact they had the money.

parelli are just try to further build an empire based on quantity of instructors rather than quality of instructors, its not about horses, relationships just $$$$$$$$$$$
 
Interesting whoever posted about the star rating system hasn't got things quite right as so many other things aren't quite right either.
You can't simply pay for and attend a week long course and get a qualification. You have to have demonstarated an ability to take a horse through the training or work a horse in the parelli way through certain manouvers which vary level to level rather as dressage tests do and do it with a level of competence comensurate with the star rating you are trying to obtain otherwise you are not accepted onto the course. You are also interviewed before you are accepted which includes an assessment of your level of experience.
The course does not entitle you to a star rating as well as being an intense learning experience you are also being assessed through the entire week in numerous categories. You have to obtain a mark of 80% in each and every category to earn your star rating otherwise course or no course you don't get the rating.
To then retain your star rating you also have to do considerable amounts of cpd to ensure you remain up to standard which may or may not depending on how and when you do it vary in expense but definately requires a great deal of time energy and commitment
As such the trainers face a great deal more scrutiny and assessment and definately have to demonstrate more commitment and knowledge than is asked for in many other qualifications which may be obtained after simply passing an exam which may take only a few hours.
The object is to produce trainers who are identifiable by their rating and to encourage growth and progression of those trainers and to maintain and improve the levels of the knowledge they have and are able to impart.
Most professional organisations require their members to pay on a yearly basis to belong to their organisation and to do a certain amount of cpd as does the BHS this is not exclusive to the parelli organisation, although the parelli cpd requirements are much higher than many other organisations.
The qualifications are not something you can simply buy or retain without showing ability, knowledge and a commitment to continued learning which are not present for many other qualifications.
 
PapaFrita said:
That's an absurd argument. It's like saying that because the Nazis commited horrendous genocide, we shouldn't complain about wife/child beaters because it's just not as bad.
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I agree with your sentiments PF, but am totally hysterical - Godwins law in action. :D

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

:D
 
jahseh said:
Interesting whoever posted about the star rating system hasn't got things quite right as so many other things aren't quite right either.
You can't simply pay for and attend a week long course and get a qualification. You have to have demonstarated an ability to take a horse through the training or work a horse in the parelli way through certain manouvers which vary level to level rather as dressage tests do and do it with a level of competence comensurate with the star rating you are trying to obtain otherwise you are not accepted onto the course. You are also interviewed before you are accepted which includes an assessment of your level of experience.
The course does not entitle you to a star rating as well as being an intense learning experience you are also being assessed through the entire week in numerous categories. You have to obtain a mark of 80% in each and every category to earn your star rating otherwise course or no course you don't get the rating.
To then retain your star rating you also have to do considerable amounts of cpd to ensure you remain up to standard which may or may not depending on how and when you do it vary in expense but definately requires a great deal of time energy and commitment
As such the trainers face a great deal more scrutiny and assessment and definately have to demonstrate more commitment and knowledge than is asked for in many other qualifications which may be obtained after simply passing an exam which may take only a few hours.
The object is to produce trainers who are identifiable by their rating and to encourage growth and progression of those trainers and to maintain and improve the levels of the knowledge they have and are able to impart.
Most professional organisations require their members to pay on a yearly basis to belong to their organisation and to do a certain amount of cpd as does the BHS this is not exclusive to the parelli organisation, although the parelli cpd requirements are much higher than many other organisations.
The qualifications are not something you can simply buy or retain without showing ability, knowledge and a commitment to continued learning which are not present for many other qualifications.
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I like the romance your trying to sell there but like I said there are at least 3 of these instructors that did not even meet the pre-requisites for these one week courses but were accepted based on the money to be made. demonstration of the fact you can move one horse around on the ground and then ride that same horse on a loose rein far from qualifies a person to teach or train.

Your right about the being assessed, they are assessed on if they can remember PP sayings like 'put the relationship first' shame PP failed to remember that one himself on friday night with regard to the horse or the audience.
 
johnrobert said:
I just wish the man and his wife would go back to America and stay there. To be honest the American way of life is far different from our way of life and we treat our animals differant too. My brother from California was very surprised to see 2 riders going pass my house on the road,seems they have Dude Ranches and Trails to ride on and the hay they feed, to me is straw that I'd bed my horses on.
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Please don't generalize about the US. Sorry, but it makes you sound ignorant. You couldn't be more wrong in your sterotyping. I grew up in VA, hunting and roading were a normal part of riding. Believe me, most don't want Parelli here either! It is more a cult taken on buy naive people who are beginner and novice horse owners. I watched Linda lunge her horse over a picnic table even as the line was tangled all about his legs. She kept him going around and around. They're horses are not especially well cared for and they are all about the marketing machine. David and Karen O'Connor left them. And anyone with any common sense does eventually. I drive past their farm in Ocala and it is just nuts. I bunch of Parelli disciples, drinking the kool-aid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyF2QqP29DU


So now let's go to the more obvious question: What is Whittaker thinking??? And how on earth could he allow this treatment of his horse? He is responsible, ultimately, for the care and treatment of his horse.

Cheers!
 
foolforahorse said:
.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyF2QqP29DU
!
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i just watched that and i have no idea what it was about. What was she trying to achieve? And at the end when she said 'good boy' what did she think she had achieved?

What I saw was a little bully that was smacking a very confused looking horse with a rope, waving her hands in its face and cracking it in the head.
I could quite happily have given her a smack in the face too, watching that, see how confused SHE would look by that sort of treatment.
However Im not the violent type, so obviously not cut out for Parelli...
 
Foolforahorse. Have penpal in Tenessee who changes her horses so often, I've lost count of which one she's writing about. she's into English hunt style? and western, she keep her horse in a large pen? and goes to the Riding clubs in her area where most of the riders keep their horses and ponies in livery. Have been to California a couple of times to see my relations and so yes I have seen the Dude ranches and Trecking centres the hay which looks like straw to me was I'm told alfala. And yes in someways their way of living is far differant than ours. All I wish for that the parellie couple would go back to America and stay there and leave us to enjoy our horses in our quiet way. Seems lately everything American good and everything English bad and I'm getting fedup with it.
 
Naturally said:
I agree with your sentiments PF, but am totally hysterical - Godwins law in action. :D

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

:D
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It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it :D
Actually, my first choice was Pol Pot and then I thought the reference might be too obscure... :p
 
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