Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

There is no such thing as a quick fix for a head shy horse, time, patience and a lot of tlc will always work in the long term. I have a TB gelding that came to me so head shy that even trying to touch his muzzle resulted in a front leg firing out and hitting me on the leg. Now after lots of gentle treatment anybody can twiddle his ears and he likes nothing better than a good scratch all over his face. Parelli is a bit to gimicky for my liking!!!!!!!!
 
chrisnapthineEDT said:
I spoke to louise and robert and made them fully aware of what was happening,and they where not aware at all,so asked me to post the following....

We are truely shocked at what has happened and knew nothing of the treatment as robert dropped catwalk off and did not stay to see the demonstration,if he had then please rest assured that it would of been stopped,we in no way condone any treatment that in any way causes distress or pain to any horse! Catwalk did recive a small cut,abraision but rest assured that he is reciving any veterinary treatment to correct this.he was ridden out this morning though with no signs of discomfort.and he will be monitored on the progress,we are just as sorry as anyone else that he was treated in this way and rest assured we will be looking into this.....
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Me thinketh that he doth protest too much..........
 
anitacollier said:
Do you ready think it was that bad. We go hunting regular and the whole point of the exercise is to exercise our horses and keep the fox population down. The dogs tear the animal apart.
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I really hope they dont as that would be far from hunting within the law and should anyone know who you hunt with you really could get the staff into all sorts of bother
 
johnrobert said:
Foolforahorse. Have penpal in Tenessee who changes her horses so often, I've lost count of which one she's writing about. she's into English hunt style? and western, she keep her horse in a large pen? and goes to the Riding clubs in her area where most of the riders keep their horses and ponies in livery. Have been to California a couple of times to see my relations and so yes I have seen the Dude ranches and Trecking centres the hay which looks like straw to me was I'm told alfala. And yes in someways their way of living is far differant than ours. All I wish for that the parellie couple would go back to America and stay there and leave us to enjoy our horses in our quiet way. Seems lately everything American good and everything English bad and I'm getting fedup with it.
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i think you miss the point ...most Americans dont have much time for parelli because they have brilliant clinicians and first class trainers in all disaplines so they dont need pareli' s *******ised form of NH why do you think he and monty are always
over here!! if you go to california be sure to go to a AQHA or dressage show, jumping or eventing you could also go to visit some of the trainers or breeders.. just like here some fantastic horsemen,woman.....and some not so good people who shoulden't have horses...
 
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5 years ago I imported a horse from canada that turned out to be head shy. This particular horse has a deep scar on the front of her near fore cannon bone and a large chunk of flesh missing from her top lip. This I suspect being caused from forceful handling ie., tying to a snubbing post and sacked out. Investigation confirmed my suspiscions that this horse was roughly started and handled. 5 years on from purchase this horse is still head shy when bridling, indicated by showing the whites of her eyes, and running away when presented with the bridle. I have never hit her, held her down or forced the bridle on her. I succeed with patience and her trust that I will not hurt her every time I tack up, and yes, she trusts me immensley. This is a man made problem that will never ever go away no matter what was tried to eradicate her complete aversion. 2 months ago my daughter put this horse in a stable, leaving her head collar on. The horse, rubbing its head got its head collar stuck on the door and in complete blind panic took the whole door off its hinges and shot off round the yard dragging the door behind it. Lessons learned. Never presume the horse will forget a bad and painful experience, it won't. This horse is loved and adored and is confident that it will never be forcibly abused again whilst in our care. If I attempted to use methods such as used on catwalk on my horse I would have a very dangerous horse on my hands. Guaranteed. Parelli's demonstration looked rough and amateurish, I am not suggesting his methods are total **** but he is not infallable as he has clearly demonstrated, I don't believe he has done the horse or himself any favours here at all.
 
jaypeebee said:
Are there are more videos (apart from all of the ones shown on this thread) showing more intense interaction between Pat Parelli and the horse? I cant see anything on any of those videos that horrifies me like it seems to have horrified the majority of the posters on this thread. Its all a bit melodramatic to me.
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Its horrifying because the Parellis go on and on about being natural and seeing the world from the horses point of view. e.g. from their website-


One of the magical results of the Parelli method is that your horse becomes willing to do what you ask, and your horse problems are solved naturally and without force or punishment. You and your horse learn to work together in alignment with the horse's nature, which is why we call our approach Natural HorseManShip.
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What exactly is natural and unforced about what he did at a PUBLIC DEMONSTRATION!? What does he do at home if thats what he teaches in public!? Where was the evidence of Pat learning to work with that horse? He was trying to bully it, not work with it.

Hypocrisy at its best (or worse).
 
Any way. The big question is why pay thousands to be taught to use abusive, restraining methods in handling of horses???? as knowledgable horse owners we all know we can twitch, beat and tie legs up if we wish!! why bloody well pay for it?????
 
All old horsemen know all the old tricks, whether it be derived from english or western horsemanship methods. The methods parrelli used on catwalk are not exactly new or indeed intelligent. Perhaps parrelli could show us how skilled he is by jumping on catwalk and popping him round a course ofjumps. Now that would be interesting to see!!!!!
 
tiggs said:
US newspaper article
http://www.examiner.com/x-7431-Anim...m7d14-2010-Festival-of-the-Horse-Parelli-demo
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And a small quote from one of the pro-PNH group:

"I learned so much from this session. Pat showed true mastery, taking Catwalk 'to the limit, but not over the limit' and I saw a new level of meaning in 'passive persistence'. The best display I have ever seen of why being a horseman requires 'love, language and leadership' - not 'love, love and love' or even 'love, language and more love'. Educational, inspiring and truly magnificent session."

I truly think that there is actually no reasoning with these people whatsoever!! How blinkered can you be!?!!
 
Come to think of it, as parrelli endorses bridleless riding at his highest level, why is he dragging his heels in the gutter? get Robert on the horse jumping without a bridle!!! problem solved!!!!
 
DragonSlayer said:
I agree entirely, it was only a matter of time...just can't believe that it would be brought up...makes you wonder about how some people's minds' work....
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I don't doubt that people find discussion of and reference to either genocide or Nazi's distasteful. These things are particular human behaviours taken to extreme.

But all the behaviours which lead to genocide and the Nazi movement have been involved in the Parelli/Catwalk scenario, just at a lower level. Just to go through a few:

Blind acceptance of 'authority'
Witch hunt behaviours
Bullying/oppression of those less able than others to defend themselves
Self justification

I am sure a trained behaviourist or similar could be much more articulate on this matter, but I for one don't make a huge distinction between acceptance of someone who chooses to bully/oppress horses or someone who chooses to bully/oppress people. The former have just chosen an easier target.
 
"Pat's challenging horse this evening is Catwalk, a stallion with a bridling issue - he has been owned by international SJ Robert Whittaker for only 8 weeks and the only way they have managed to bridle this horse has been through building the bridle on the horse's head whilst using force to hold the head as still as possible....."

This is the Parelli quote regarding the killer horse. What is so terrible about spending some time slowly constructing the bridle till the horse is more accepting. Why was there the requirement for the horse to be treated as he was by PP, when all he does apparently is throw his head around requiring you to bridle him slowly.

Hardly a major issue surely - more of an inconvenience. What was the major problem this horse had and how was he dangerous......
 
vandypip said:
Come to think of it, as parrelli endorses bridleless riding at his highest level, why is he dragging his heels in the gutter? get Robert on the horse jumping without a bridle!!! problem solved!!!!
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Perhaps young Robert should have a quick word with his Dad - I saw John jump a 4ft course without a bridle at one of his demos years ago . . . . .
 
There you go!!! how is parrelli getting away with endorsing his methods as intelligent and unique horsemanship?? our very own brilliant John Whitaker was doing it when parrelli was riding asses!!!
 
I am sickened by the whole thing, by parelli, by the whittakers, by the even organisers for not intervening.

The sad thing is, that it is always the animal, in this case the horse who comes off worse and suffers for this stunt. Whatever the fallout from this dispicable spectacle, it is not possible to undo the stress and upset that Catwalk suffered.
 
Anyway. What exactly is Roberts view on all of this? Perhaps if he'd post his view on this site, considering this is his horse, we can close this discussion and move on to higher things.
 
TBH, I think with the investigations going on (which may well lead to a prosecution), it is difficult to report too much at this early stage. God knows, it would be awful if there was a legal case to answer, but the press had made it impossible for a "fair trial" to be heard.

I think we have to sit tight and see what the investigations bring up now. No reason why peeps can't still complain to the welfare charities to ensure something gets done.

sm x
 
If Robert does indeed endorse parrelli's treatment of catwalk, why on earth doesn't he get him to sort out USA Today's bloody bucking too!!!
 
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The saddest part of this is that novice people just coming into horses will believe that it is right to use force to gain a horses trust! Then the market will be even more flooded with horses that are called dangerous (when they are aren't) and horses that are terrified to let anyone near them. Very few horses are really 'bad' nearly all their problems are man made and reading about this so called demo, you can see why!
 
Its been stated that Robert wanted to try Parelli because a friend practises it but didn't stay for the demo????? It seems to me that Robert wanted a quick cheap fix and didn't care HOW it was achieved.It sounds like there might be a bit of pressure behind the scenes now and the words rat jumping and ship spring to mind.
 
There seems to be a lot of presuming going on. I'd be interested to hear what is being done if it actually and factually is.
 
I wasn't there. So I can't comment. And the youtube vids don't show much.

But I've seen proper NH being practiced. It's not something you can learn via dvd, and it's nothing like Prat and Linda practice. It's a whole other thing.

The explain briefly, I've seen a few people do it with success, but the best is a young lady who lives a few miles from here. Raised around horses with an international rider for a father... she's very quiet about her natural abilities and from what I've seen is happiest alone with a horse. That's when she gets a tune.

We (work) had a gelding in which had kicked the YO, bucked off grooms, and we were at a loss with it. It would just 'turn'. Medically, physically, it was fine. No-one could hack it out and stay ON it, it had a total attitude problem.

It was sent to **** (lady) to be worked at her father's yard. We were invited back some time later to watch progress.
We were led down to the stables, where the horse was caught and popped into a haltar and led into the small indoor school. There, the leadrope was unclipped and the horse stood watching ****, ears pricked.
She raised her arm and whistled, and the horse turned and trotted round clockwise. She raised her other arm (she had no whip, and the rope was by her feet) and the horse turned and trotted the other way. All communication was done with body language and various whistles and clicks of the tongue. She had that horse loose jumping, cantering circles, turning on a sixpence, jumping when she asked it to, and cantering ROUND the jump when she asked it too. The communication between her and horse was awesome.
It was taken up to the yard, and after brief discussion with her father, and ten minutes worth of 'relaxation' massage it was tacked up and handed over to one of the lads.
It then went xc.... light in the mouth, no malice shown.

You know what? This lady (she was just 25 at the time) never claimed to be able to cure any horse. She worked with vets, physios, and other experts, and would be honest about the animal. If she thought it was a lost cause she'd say. She used both natural learnt methods (she just has a 'knack!') along with more traditional methods. Horses are exercised every morning at x o clock, as a group, and have a strong routine, along with good turnout, and are always treated with respect and a calm rational manner.

I would trust her with any of my horses. She now works in their local PC, and I envy those PC children having such a lady at their disposal. They will learn alot.

Parelli is just, in my opinion, a con.
 
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