Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

It is my opinion that there is actually a cultural problem here. When 'traditional' methods are being discussed, are we talking about British traditions, or North American ones? If the American ones are those popularised and typified by the 'cowboy' style of roping legs, using twitches to bridle etc, then I am sure that the Parelli methods are usually more acceptable (although these appear to have been replicated in the video I have seen of the 'work' with Catwalk) It is understandable that quick turn round of unbroken to workable horses was required historically in North America. The British tradition evolved more slowly and and has developed along different lines, essentially making the Parelli method redundant in the UK.
 
fburton said:
I have watched the DVD that includes the whole clip. Seeing the bits before and after the posted clip doesn't make one go "Ah, so that's what it was all about. I now see what a dangerous horse Barney was and understand what Linda was trying to do." No, the overall impression is still of an ugly, wrong-headed way to deal with a horse who wasn't trying to run over the top of anyone but whose "crime" was looking where he wasn't meant to. Actually, Barney was relatively quiet and untroubled at the beginning when he was being handled by his owner. It was Linda's intervention that upset and confused him - understandably, given the total lack of clarity of the signals he was given and the continual flurry of punishers inflicted on him. It is also true that things had settled down again towards the end - but no way does it excuse the shoddy way the horse was treated.
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I'm so glad that you have seen the whole video, unlike many that judged it on a 10 minute snipit, for now you can make an informed personal comment on how you saw the whole thing, I have never defended what Linda did I have always said the I understood what she was trying to do, yes it was not good to watch and I think she would be the first to acknowledge that we all might have done things differently with hindsight.
I really like Linda and this has been the only thing that has ever made me cringe:eek:
 
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pippinpie said:
The difference is that they are not lunging, they use a method where by the horse is sent out onto a circle, allowed to continue without nagging from the handler and then disengaged and brought back or change rein or change gait. PNH circles can be big one, small ones, traveling ones many many others, the difference is there are three parts :the send, the allow and the bring back. a horse learns to maintain gait and stay on the circle until it is told otherwise, when teaching this maybe only two or three circles can be achieved, there's a world of difference.
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If it looks like lunging, sounds like lunging.........:cool:
 
I too have seen the full video of Barney the one-eyed horse. Not difficult as it's part of the Level 1 instructional DVD pack. I agree with what fburton says. I think the horse was provoked and scared into behaving as he did, I don't see a trace of "dominance" in him. He was just confused and scared and what was done to him made it worse.
 
fburton said:
I have watched the DVD that includes the whole clip. Seeing the bits before and after the posted clip doesn't make one go "Ah, so that's what it was all about. I now see what a dangerous horse Barney was and understand what Linda was trying to do." No, the overall impression is still of an ugly, wrong-headed way to deal with a horse who wasn't trying to run over the top of anyone but whose "crime" was looking where he wasn't meant to. Actually, Barney was relatively quiet and untroubled at the beginning when he was being handled by his owner. It was Linda's intervention that upset and confused him - understandably, given the total lack of clarity of the signals he was given and the continual flurry of punishers inflicted on him. It is also true that things had settled down again towards the end - but no way does it excuse the shoddy way the horse was treated.
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Having more information I have now also watched the (as far as I know) whole video. I agree with what you have said about the only error on the part of the horse appearing to be looking elsewhere so would almost definately have ignored it till the horse was ready to pay attention, or tried to be more interesting myself:(
I also agree that the horse was treated in a less than ideal manner and your words ugly, wrong headed and shoddy really seem to fit. It doesn't seem to fit with lots of the stated Parelli ideals and methods.
However I still can't see that the treatment given (as there are apparently no injuries hang ups caused or damage in any real measurable way) deserves the degree of vitriol being heaped on it by some others to the extent that someone stated the horse would have done the world a favour if it had run over the abusive *****.
It seems to me that lots of cases of real actual cruelty and neglect resulting in long term sustained damage or serious suffering are termed abuse and using that term for something like this cheapens that in some way as the two just don't compare.
 
jahseh said:
Having more information I have now also watched the (as far as I know) whole video. I agree with what you have said about the only error on the part of the horse appearing to be looking elsewhere so would almost definately have ignored it till the horse was ready to pay attention, or tried to be more interesting myself:(
I also agree that the horse was treated in a less than ideal manner and your words ugly, wrong headed and shoddy really seem to fit. It doesn't seem to fit with lots of the stated Parelli ideals and methods.
However I still can't see that the treatment given (as there are apparently no injuries hang ups caused or damage in any real measurable way) deserves the degree of vitriol being heaped on it by some others to the extent that someone stated the horse would have done the world a favour if it had run over the abusive *****.
It seems to me that lots of cases of real actual cruelty and neglect resulting in long term sustained damage or serious suffering are termed abuse and using that term for something like this cheapens that in some way as the two just don't compare.
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I am very glad to see that you too feel that the treatment of this horse was wrong.

I think the vitriol heaped on LP because of this incident is based on the fact that she and Pat have set themselves up as the people to follow, as teachers if you like, and there will be some amongst their followers who will think that this was exactly the right thing to do with that particular horse when most right minded horse people can see at a glance that it is just wrong, exactly the same applies to the Catwalk incident. It is interesting that, despite almost universal condemnation, aside from die hard Parelli followers, that not once have either of them apologised for the treatment of either horse.

Like it or not, the majority of Parelli people (well those that I have met in the UK anyway) are almost evangelical in their belief that they are right and everyone else is wrong, this despite many of us, including myself, having witnessed Parelli going horribly wrong.

I have no beef with NH, I do with Parelli and the above is just a couple of reasons why. I could go on but I won't as it would be covering old ground.

I would just like to say to Pat and Linda that a good horseman admits when he got it wrong and does not close his eyes to other ways because he believes he already knows the proper way. The day a horseman stops learning is the day he stops being a good horseman.
 
SirenaXVI said:
I am very glad to see that you too feel that the treatment of this horse was wrong.

I think the vitriol heaped on LP because of this incident is based on the fact that she and Pat have set themselves up as the people to follow, as teachers if you like, and there will be some amongst their followers who will think that this was exactly the right thing to do with that particular horse when most right minded horse people can see at a glance that it is just wrong, exactly the same applies to the Catwalk incident. It is interesting that, despite almost universal condemnation, aside from die hard Parelli followers, that not once have either of them apologised for the treatment of either horse.....................I would just like to say to Pat and Linda that a good horseman admits when he got it wrong and does not close his eyes to other ways because he believes he already knows the proper way. The day a horseman stops learning is the day he stops being a good horseman.
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Nice to read two polite posts, Thanks.
Both Linda and Pat have given public apologies, maybe you have not seen them, Linda made a video recording several months back and it was displayed on her blog and on parelli.com site, Pat has made a written video recording last week that was shown on Parelli you tube. Not everyone that has seen them has been satisfied but that is a personal thing.
 
I think its almost good as there has been a lot of incidents like this but not known so in some ways its kinda good that this has caused so much debate as it means it is less likely to happen again.
 
I'm surprised that people are waffling on over this thread as many sensible and non things have been said. I don't think the Parellies or Robert Whittaker will be worrying their tiny little brains about it. Catwalk bless him will either make the grade as a top Showjumper or will be past on to lesser mortals. Perhaps if there was less money for Showjumping etc:- there would be a lot more enjoyable shows, like in bygone days when a red rosette and a £1 was what you rode for.
 
On the contrary, I think PP and RW must be VERY concerned over the situation, and the outcome of any investigation. Maybe this thread has drifted, but it's still here, and being read all over the world. Can't be good for business, can it.
 
Use to enjoy my showjumping many many years ago. But know cann't even be bothered to read about it, and it's getting the same about Eventing, big business comes in and the money and the joy disappears. That is why many small local shows have disappeared for the amateur rider, price money!!!
 
pippinpie said:
Nice to read two polite posts, Thanks.
Both Linda and Pat have given public apologies, maybe you have not seen them, Linda made a video recording several months back and it was displayed on her blog and on parelli.com site, Pat has made a written video recording last week that was shown on Parelli you tube. Not everyone that has seen them has been satisfied but that is a personal thing.
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I admit that I have not seen Linda's apology, but I have in fact seen Pat's and tbh, imho, he did not apologise for the treatment of the horse and did not actually admit he got it wrong which would have gone some way to quieting the seething masses :confused:
 
Now that has made me REALLY angry !

"blown out of proportion"
"a few hundred people upset"

What the hell planet are these people on. Are we blind ? I am absolutely disgusted with Parelli and Whitaker all over again. No this won't just "go away" because we are "hysterical". We want to know the outcome of the BHS/RSPCA investigations. :mad::mad:

I thought I'd buy a few horsey mags today, and there is Brand Parelli splashed all over them, it's an unstoppable money machine. They have their base at Stoneleigh Park, to educate us UK owners-

http://central.parellinaturalhorset...-soldier-and-a-shop-assistant-have-in-common/

I bet they are/were planning on doing a demo at the yourHorselive show in November (conveniently at Stoneleigh Park), and yet they treat people who see thru them as imbeciles.

Enough is enough, get out of the UK and take your ridiculous and overpriced carrot sticks with you.

Sorry, time for a major rant to these arrogant, self absorbed, "we know the best for horses" idiots. I feel much better for that - but be assured, there is plenty more where that came from !!!
 
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I'm not surprised by Roberts reaction. Does anyone remember the "whip" incident at Hickstead a few years ago? To me, he's never seemed the horseman of John or Michael and certainly isn't as personable etc as they are.

The fact Parelli have an office at Stoneleigh doesn't bother me (maybe we should arrange a protest outside it!!! ha ha ha!). The BHS don't own the whole of the Park itself, they can't control who rents space as far as I'm aware....
 
sorry, it just seems like they are everywhere. I can't even get a horsey mag without it being rammed down my throat. *sigh* And it's you and me that they are trying to sell this **** to. And novices, who must think it's the right path for them, and will spend out hundreds - with all this damned advertising.
 
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A spokesman for Parelli said: "We do feel that we made some mistakes and want to apologise for them."
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The big man (ha, ha) himself couldnt bring himself to say it so he got one of his minions to do it. PP really needs to cut his ego down to size.


And Pat Parelli told H&H: "Although we at Parelli, the vet and the owners of Catwalk are all perfectly happy that the stallion is of fine health and suffered no duress, we are ready to accept that nothing we nor our community of Parelli practitioners say will change the mind of a few hundred people who are out to shout us down."
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The vet- thats their OWN vet! And as far as ive been told not all is happy in the parelli camp. More spin from PP for us silly people to swallow.


Robert Whitaker said he felt the situation had perhaps been blown out of proportion.
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Mmm. One minute hes there. Then hes not. Maybe hes a bit :o
 
an interesting thought whilst having said cup of tea - I wonder if these "pro Parelli" mags will be reporting on this incident next month ? I wonder if they'll think twice about their "Parelli competitions" and advertising.

Answers on a postage stamp :rolleyes:
 
I wish i had been there to see if for myself so i could comment but i wasnt. Its so sad. Poor horse, but ive also seen far worse in day to day handling of horses. Its just a sad state of the world we live
 
Hi Everyone,

Although I have just joined I have managed to find the youtube footage that you are all asking about.

Try going to this web address and you can see a large amounts of varying length clips about Catwalk and Pratt Parrellis!!

Make sure you have som tissues handy, AND I'M A STRAIGHT BLOKE! NOT GOOD TO WATCH BUT YOU MUST TO LEARN WHAT NOT TO DO!! IF ONLY WE COULD BAN THEM.

MR WHITTAKER, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!!:mad:

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...&search=Search&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&spell=1
 
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I was gonna leave this thread to you lot since you're doing a fine job :)

Then I read the H&H piece where the Parelli's said... "we are ready to accept that nothing we nor our community of Parelli practitioners say will change the mind of a few hundred people who are out to shout us down"

Few hundred?!? If you had a business and you were ready to accept "a few hundred people" were out to "shout you down", firstly no one would come to you if you screwed up that much and secondly who'd want to if you had such a blasé and arrogant attitude towards what you do for a living?

Only makes it worse that their living is training horses.

God help them.
 
This is the first I have heard of this happening and after reading everyone's comments etc. I am disgusted. Let's face it it's not the first time they have been in the media for all the wrong reasons. I don't believe I have ever seen Monty Roberts using hobbles and twitches and he seems to achieve fantastic results. I am very disappointed in Robert Whittaker for letting this happen. Obviously something has happened in the past to make the stallion act the way he does. The point is, is he frightened of the bridle or the bit? If it is the bit maybe they could try a bitless bridle to see if that works. Is he the same when having a halter put on? There could be countless reasons as to why the horse is as he is. It is up to whoever looks after him to try and find out why and try to make things better for the horse, not to distress him and make him cower down to humans.
 
I also wasn't going to comment again on this subject but I am so peed off with that quote from him.
What an arrogant s0d, i have never been anti P or anything else, i have already said that I had used Parelli methods to help out with my mare in the beginning. So the comment about being 'shouted down' and the attitude that anyone not happy with this display are just out to get him is just ridiculous. How paranoid can you get.
One thing is true though, his treatment of this horse and his whole arrogant attitude has certainly changed my mind, but not for the better.
Does he not realise that it isn't just parelli bashers that have spoken out against it, but parelli followers too. Albeit incognito due to worry of being turned against by the parelli-ists and their lives being made difficult.

I agree with Wizbits that far worse things happen. But not in public demonstrations and by the self proclaimed guru of NH who claims to train by not using fear, pain etc.

I think i have just had my 2 seconds of fame by being quoted in H&H lol
 
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