Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

"we are ready to accept that nothing we nor our community of Parelli practitioners say will change the mind of a few hundred people who are out to shout us down"

The arrogance of Parelli seems to know no bounds!
 
JekyleandHyde said:
Its such a shame to see more abuse caused to these stunning animals. I was recently sent a link about the disgusting abuse that horses suffer in the Americans hands in rodeo, what makes Pat think he is any different?????
A horse had had a front leg and back leg broken yet still beaten til he moved and then what????? He's legs where flapping around as he tried his best to get away..... The people who do this need a bullet.....
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Please keep in mind that PP is not representative of all Americans. Many of us are just as disgusted with him as you are.

I read Horse and Hound Online. Recently there was an abuse case at Spindle(?) farm. Should we consider that incident to be representative of UK horsemanship? And RW is Brittish. He supplied the victim

Or the Calgary Stampede in Alberta CANADA?

Neither good horsemanship nor abuse have a nationality
 
Having just read this thread and the paper copy of h&h it seems the penny has finally dropped with people about Pirelli being somewhat less than natural! I know a very reliable source that has worked behind the scenes as part of a stunt and show team and has witnessed the so called "natural" horsemen training the horses used in the shows. Any wonder that for the show the horses come into the ring wild then miraculously become tame in minutes with a stupid ropey halter thing on them? One has to ask is this a miracle or did the early training of the horses with a metal noseband and such like put so much fear of pain into the horses that the minute the "stupid ropey thing" is put on their heads that they are submissive! Also, the fact that Pirelli couldnt tame a horse that he hadnt had time to "work on" is also a gleaming admission that the whole thing is a "show" and its just stupid people looking for the quick fix miracle answer to their naughty dobbin that buy into this rubbish! If this is natural horseman ship then I dont want any part of it! There is nothing more natural for a horse than training with love, kindness, firmness and consistency and it wont cost you £49 for a stuipd ropey halter thingy that doesnt work...!
 
I don't believe this is a slur on americans, nor was spindle farm normal in the UK. I think the main issue here is horse welfare and the lack of respect shown for the animal in question. The complete confusion seen in the eyes and behaviour of the horse, in this case, and other examples I have seen indicates to me, a normal horse person, that this method is not constructive.
Nationality, as you say, has nothing to do with this, maybe culture has a bearing on how we view and treat animals in each country, however, Parelli himself, comes from an enlightened, active equestrian nation. Does he not?
This is not horsemanship and should not be condoned as such. The 'followers' of this movement are surely not stupid, they must see the distress this type of behaviour causes to horses and how it destroys trust and respect between horse and handler.
I am not anti nor pro any type of horsemanship, but I am against abuse of any animals.
In all my years of having horses, and with a reputation for retraining 'difficult' horses, I do feel I am qualified to comment as are many very very experienced and educated people on this forum.
My old trainer always said, never lose your temper or your head, if you feel you are getting cross/angry/ upset, stop what you are doing, quietly, (get off), and walk away calmly. Think the issue through and find a way to approach the problem.
We all get riled sometimes, but it is never constructive to ever deal with a horse in anger or desperation because you cannot achieve something.
Yes these big animals can be dangerous and temperamental and need discipline. I don't deny this. But a short smack on the neck if they nip you and a sharp word is not abuse. Nor is a smart tap with the whip.
But this was.
 
liznpatch said:
its just stupid people looking for the quick fix miracle answer to their naughty dobbin that buy into this rubbish!
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The sad thing is the horses often aren't naughty, they're just being horses! These Parelli fools want to turn them into performing chimps or robots. :(

I have never & will never line the pockets of that hideous excuse for a human being or his vile wife. :mad:

Shouted down by a few hundred people Prat? Try a few hundred thousand you complete & utter moron! :mad:
 
I dunno, just when they hoped it "might" be dying down over here, eh ;).

I'm really interested to know what the general vibe is in the US about all this ? Has it kicked up as much of a stink as over here ? Have there been issues with Parelli before over there ? What's the general view of it all on the forums over there ? And if anyone is in Australia...same questions !

Sorry, just curious. sm x
 
shysmum said:
I
I'm really interested to know what the general vibe is in the US about all this ? Has it kicked up as much of a stink as over here ? Have there been issues with Parelli before over there ? What's the general view of it all on the forums over there ? And if anyone is in Australia...same questions !
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Americans have got better causes to fight than to be worried about a twich and rope incident in UK.
If you want to stop horse abuse watch ALL of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM1I8AnhGWY

then sign this:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/endwildhorseracing
 
shysmum said:
I dunno, just when they hoped it "might" be dying down over here, eh ;).

I'm really interested to know what the general vibe is in the US about all this ? Has it kicked up as much of a stink as over here ? Have there been issues with Parelli before over there ? What's the general view of it all on the forums over there ? And if anyone is in Australia...same questions !

Sorry, just curious. sm x
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I joined this forum because of a link from the US weekly horse periodical COTH
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264652
This particular incident has generated fewer posts there than it did here, but it's FAR from the first Parelli thread

Here are a few samples
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263421&highlight=linda
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247238&highlight=linda
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250356&highlight=linda
 
I have read a lots of peoples comments about this Demo. For my own experience I have seen several parelli displays and had a livery who was interested. Have never seen a 'happy' horse at demo's but all look like zombies. I find this trainning very dominating and the only reward is when the pressure is taken off. As for my livery, she went to a course where the instructor hit the horse over the head when the horse would not load in trailer! I have had experience in trainning horses and dogs over 30 years and perfer clicker trainning.
 
Was looking up the clicker training mentioned several times on this thread and came across this HorseTrainingSecretsExposed.com (sorry dont know how to create a link) I don't think it has anything to do with clicker training? Now this really does seem to be a case of someone offering the quick fix the Parelli's keep getting accused of offering and telling people they need no experience to be able to train a horse in maybe as little as 4 to 6 hours
 
Hi everyone,

I just wanted to pop in to put in my 2 cents. As an American and as a person who uses Parelli techniques, I figured I could bring a perspective you have been asking for.

Let me begin by saying that I am horrified at what Parelli has done. My faith in the Parelli system has gone down hill in the past few years as my eyes were opened to his horrible attitude and business model. This event bothered me not necessarily because I believe the procedure was wrong (which is was, but I will get to that in a minute), but because it is a clear case of hypocrisy on Parelli's part. He prides himself on never using pain or force to control a horse, but he plainly did that here, with no explanation or apology, simply excuses. I believe that if a horse has become extremely dangerous, or is putting himself in danger, a leg tie or a twitch might be necessary, but only for a very short period of time, until the danger can be resolved. If Parelli thought it was necessary to use a twitch, he should have used it to get the horse out of that arena and into a calmer environment, not as a training method. This is the last straw for me, and I will no longer be patronizing the Parelli cooperation.

That said, I will continue to use the methods I have learned from his programs, because I believe they have greatly helped with the training of my horses. The gentle approach, and psychological awareness that his methods teach are very helpful. What he did here was not.

Finally, although this is an awful demonstration of horsemanship, I believe that it is being blown out of proportion. What he did was wrong, but not evil. I think that there is some truth to the fact that people who don't like Parelli are using this event to fuel a fire that has been burning a long time. If any other trainer had done this, not under the guise of natural horsemanship, there might have been a murmuring about fair treatment, but not this all out uproar. I also worry that his actions will taint the view of all natural horsemanship enthusiasts out there. Not all natural horsemen, and not all Americans are like this. This is an isolated case.

Anyway, I know that was long winded, but that is my opinion on the situation. Thanks for reading.
 
shysmum said:
Now that has made me REALLY angry !

"blown out of proportion"
"a few hundred people upset"

What the hell planet are these people on. Are we blind ? I am absolutely disgusted with Parelli and Whitaker all over again. No this won't just "go away" because we are "hysterical". We want to know the outcome of the BHS/RSPCA investigations. :mad::mad:

I thought I'd buy a few horsey mags today, and there is Brand Parelli splashed all over them, it's an unstoppable money machine. They have their base at Stoneleigh Park, to educate us UK owners-

http://central.parellinaturalhorset...-soldier-and-a-shop-assistant-have-in-common/

I bet they are/were planning on doing a demo at the yourHorselive show in November (conveniently at Stoneleigh Park), and yet they treat people who see thru them as imbeciles.

Enough is enough, get out of the UK and take your ridiculous and overpriced carrot sticks with you.

Sorry, time for a major rant to these arrogant, self absorbed, "we know the best for horses" idiots. I feel much better for that - but be assured, there is plenty more where that came from !!!
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You don't accept the word of the owners of a valuable horse.
You don't accept the word of the only vet who examined the horse. (Not the Parelli's vet as I have already informed you, but the RFoTH's)
You don't accept the word of anyone who contradicts you - after all, you know better.
Yeah right.
I don't know if you were present at the event or not, but I rather suspect not.
As a matter of interest, how rabid was your condemnation of the "Bluetongue" incident, or for that matter the recent issue with Hester?
Your focus seems more to be on your hatred for the Parellis and less on the welfare of the horse.
 
Unbeliever said:
As a matter of interest, how rabid was your condemnation of the "Bluetongue" incident, or for that matter the recent issue with Hester?
Your focus seems more to be on your hatred for the Parellis and less on the welfare of the horse.
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All welfare issues are discussed on this forum, at length. Nobody, that I can recall, was in favour of Rollkur. This isn't relevant, as this post is a discussion about Parelli.

Since you've just joined us, may I ask a question that no Parellist has yet answered for me?

Do you think that what Prat Parelli demonstrated on Catwalk was the "natural horsemanship" that he likes to preach? (Yes or no will suffice.)
 
Munchkin said:
All welfare issues are discussed on this forum, at length. Nobody, that I can recall, was in favour of Rollkur. This isn't relevant, as this post is a discussion about Parelli.

Since you've just joined us, may I ask a question that no Parellist has yet answered for me?

Do you think that what Prat Parelli demonstrated on Catwalk was the "natural horsemanship" that he likes to preach? (Yes or no will suffice.)
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Ah, one word answers? We all know there's more to any issue than that. "Have you stopped beating your wife / child / horse?"
I've seen the video evidence, I've seen the vet's report (remember this was the official vet )
I've seen the owners comments
I've seen PP's statement
I've seen the posts on the H&H forum.
Guess which seems the most irrational and unreasonable?
When people descbe themselves as "haters", they have lost any credibility they may have had.
As for your question, my own opinion is that Natural Horsemanship is in itself a misnomer as any interaction between horse and man must by definition be unnatural.
 
Ah, my apologies. I did wonder why it was taking so long to type "yes" or "no."

Sweetie, martlin was using something known as "irony" - since you called us haters.

The least rational statements I've read are from Parelli followers who are now praying for us who are not "savvy" and the poor animals in our care.

We've all seen the same things that you've seen. Most of us simply realise that it's wrong to agree with whatever Prat Parelli does purely because he's Prat Parelli.

You haven't actually answered my question, so I shall rephrase it. Is what PP did to Catwalk a true representation of what he aims to promote with his programme?

Another question. Why did a spokesperson for Parelli say they made mistakes that should be apologised for, if in your eyes, that is not true?
 
Unbeliever said:
What description would that be then?
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Directly from you -'anti rope wigglers', that's a nice one, 'the hard of understanding ones' and general condescending tone of your posts.
To find more precise description of 'us' as 'Parelli haters' I will direct you to several post of your co-followers in this thread alone and many others.
 
Munchkin said:
Ah, my apologies. I did wonder why it was taking so long to type "yes" or "no."

Sweetie, martlin was using something known as "irony" - since you called us haters.[\QUOTE]

Did I? Maybe you should check
Munchkin said:
The least rational statements I've read are from Parelli followers who are now praying for us who are not "savvy" and the poor animals in our care.

We've all seen the same things that you've seen. Most of us simply realise that it's wrong to agree with whatever Prat Parelli does purely because he's Prat Parelli. [\QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more. No one has all the answers, but by the same token most have something to contribute.

Munchkin said:
You haven't actually answered my question, so I shall rephrase it. Is what PP did to Catwalk a true representation of what he aims to promote with his programme?[\Quote]

I know. I wasn't there! That's my point. Neither were the vast majority of those who were so quick to condemn. All the footage I have seen is pretty equivocal. You can see what you want to see. But there's nothing so horrific that should generate the level of condemnation I've seen, and certainly no evidence of the "abuse" which has been been so hysterically condemned.

Munchkin said:
Another question. Why did a spokesperson for Parelli say they made mistakes that should be apologised for, if in your eyes, that is not true?
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I don't speak for the Parelli organisation, so it's unfair to ask me that as you probably know. I would suggest you read their statements fully to see what they apologise for.

BTW apologies for the appearance of this response. Can't seem to get the quotes to work correctly.
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"we are ready to accept that nothing we nor our community of Parelli practitioners say will change the mind of a few hundred people who are out to shout us down"

Translation:

We did nothing wrong.

Anyone who says we did something wrong is not actually concerned with the horse's welfare - they are only interested in destroying our credibility.

Arrogant ass. As if people have nothing better to do with their time than engage in a conspiracy to ruin Pat Parelli.

No, Pat. Actually, it IS about the horse. And about your own false promotion of yourself as someone who establishes trust, avoids mechanical means and restraints and who listens to what the horse is telling you.
 
Unbeliever said:
Nice to see a balanced view of things :)

(For the hard of understanding of whom there seem to be a few on this forum, that is sarcasm :) )
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This post is 150+ pages long - I haven't just jumped on the band wagon with a sweeping statement, I've watched the videos, I've seen the previous videos and have to say after careful consideration I think they're a pair of fools, hypocritical fools at that!

Thanks for your reply tho (that too is sarcastic, in case you were wondering) :p
 
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