Parelli = Horse-Man-Sh*T

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'I dont think this is linda parelli tho, but whoever it is should be shot.'

It is her.

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how do you know?

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As I have actually seen her, I can confirm it is the stupid woman.
 
this is f*cking AWFUL.

i believe in a 'natural' way of horsemanship and the horse should be taught respect and manners but NEVER is hitting an animal justifiable.

i have broken an untouched mare and through all the suffering she's put me through i would never confuse her and or put a finger on her aggressively.
 
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Traditional horsemanship in the UK has a lot of things not to be proud of, so let he who is blameless cast the first stone.



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I'm not even going there with the rest of the tosh you wrote...not seen to be beating a horse up in public..perlease what do you call smacking it forcefully round the head...oh yeah I forgot - it's a "game", but in regards to this comment above, have a bloody great boulder from me.

With no forceful or abusive training methods WHATSOEVER I have just called in my horse (a 3 yr old filly I've had for 9 months) from out of the herd, brought her into the corral with no lead rope, tacked her up completely loose... moved her out on a circle, halted her, backed her up from a voice cue...and I had to teach her every bit of that.

I LOATHE Parelli, yes I've seen enough of it to make a reasoned judgement and in my opinion it is physical and mental abuse
 
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Traditional horsemanship in the UK has a lot of things not to be proud of, so let he who is blameless cast the first stone.

I've watched that in context with the rest of the section. That horse was absolutely disrespectful of space - and needed to be given strong phase 4 signals before it would listen.

As we say in our area - "better a Phase 4 than end up in Ward 4".

Phase 4 is somewhere I rather not go with any horse, but if I have to go there I will, because it is most important that the human is in charge, and the human is safe.


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Ok what pisses me off with all this NH BO****S is they say it is a kinder way for the horse than the traditional AGRESSIVE manor of training a horse. Yet here are the Parelli people defending beating a horse over the head with a metal clip and smacking it on the bum with a bit of leather. FFS can't you see whats wrong with that? Oh i forgot no these people charge you lots of money to teach how to beat a horse into submission so they must be right.
As i have said already i currently have a pony who has been ruined by parelli and i am trying to help him and get him back on track. That is why i am so passionate in this subject i am witnessing first hand what this does to some ponies.
You have to read between the lines with alot of this NH stuff. I look at things from the horses point of veiw and alot of the NH (not just Parelli) is not as it's made out to be.
 
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Guys, a bit of measured reaction please. And drop the name calling - it helps no one, and just makes you look bad.

This is a short careful section of clips from a bigger section. It is viewed out of context and without the supporting materials, and importantly without the conclusion/results section.

Linda Parelli is very smart, and very much aware of how she communicates and is seen as a representative of her organisation. She is not about to be seen beating up a horse or loosing the plot. Too much to lose.

Now I bet I can follow you around with a camera and put together a compilation that looks as if you are roundly abusing your horse - I just need a bit of selective editing...

Traditional horsemanship in the UK has a lot of things not to be proud of, so let he who is blameless cast the first stone.

I've watched that in context with the rest of the section. That horse was absolutely disrespectful of space - and needed to be given strong phase 4 signals before it would listen.

As we say in our area - "better a Phase 4 than end up in Ward 4".

Phase 4 is somewhere I rather not go with any horse, but if I have to go there I will, because it is most important that the human is in charge, and the human is safe.

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Sorry but you can come to my yard any day of the week, no matter how you edit any film you make, you will find no evidence of abuse!

I don't care what context this video is shown in, it is BAD HORSEMANSHIP pure and simple. I had a young dominant mare who would invade your space, she would also rear up at you - when she left me as a just backed four year old she was a lovely horse to be with - there were no games, no carrot sticks and I never raised a hand to her, other than a short sharp reprimand - there would have been no point, if I had done to her what LP is doing in that video she would have come right back at me.

Phase 4! I have never ever heard such complete and utter bunkum in all my life - fact is, with a horse that is supposedly like the one in the video, you HAVE to be black and white, bullying tactics like those shown are not helpful.

Having said all of that, I do believe Pat Parelli has a gift, his other half sure doesn't, Parelli has become somewhat of a cult, with people handing over the hard earned cash and I really really REALLY object to their supposition that anyone who doesn't do Parelli doesn't really love their horse - after that video, that statement seems ludicrous!
 
This video has made me so angry I can't tell you! She just looks like she's lost her temper with it to be honest.
To those that have said that other horses wouldn't react badly if put in the same situation, I can 100% guarantee that one of mine for sure would be on his hind legs trying to kill her if treated like that, he is not a rearer either. My others would act similarly to the horse in the vid, scared, confused and looking for a way out.
I really don't understand what she is trying to acheive and agree with the others that say no amount of editing could make most horse people look so inhumane. Who cares what the surrounding circumstances were, I fail to see any circumstance that would make me want to create a headshy petrified horse.
 
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Guys, a bit of measured reaction please. And drop the name calling - it helps no one, and just makes you look bad.

This is a short careful section of clips from a bigger section. It is viewed out of context and without the supporting materials, and importantly without the conclusion/results section.

Linda Parelli is very smart, and very much aware of how she communicates and is seen as a representative of her organisation. She is not about to be seen beating up a horse or loosing the plot. Too much to lose.

Now I bet I can follow you around with a camera and put together a compilation that looks as if you are roundly abusing your horse - I just need a bit of selective editing...

Traditional horsemanship in the UK has a lot of things not to be proud of, so let he who is blameless cast the first stone.

I've watched that in context with the rest of the section. That horse was absolutely disrespectful of space - and needed to be given strong phase 4 signals before it would listen.

As we say in our area - "better a Phase 4 than end up in Ward 4".

Phase 4 is somewhere I rather not go with any horse, but if I have to go there I will, because it is most important that the human is in charge, and the human is safe.

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And there we have, the desired result of excellent marketing.

That horse is no loon.
 
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Ok what pisses me off with all this NH BO****S is they say it is a kinder way for the horse than the traditional AGRESSIVE manor of training a horse. Yet here are the Parelli people defending beating a horse over the head with a metal clip and smacking it on the bum with a bit of leather. FFS can't you see whats wrong with that? Oh i forgot no these people charge you lots of money to teach how to beat a horse into submission so they must be right.

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Hang on, I hope you're not implying that all "Parelli people" do that, and think that this video is ok? I was pretty shocked seeing this video, but I will not change my high opinions of my friends who do Parelli. My already low opinion of Linda has just plummeted, though.
 
"As we say in our area - "better a Phase 4 than end up in Ward 4"."

treating a horse like that is the best and easiest way to end up on ward 4!!!!
he was just a normal horse. goodness only knows what they would make of one that was actually naughty!
 
Sorry not all people. Just the ones who justify this kind of treatment. I do know some people who do Parelli and they do it how it should be done and not by abusing the horse. But as i said this is a sore topic for me due to my new pony. But i think his owner had just been draged into all the hype and prob watched the video and thought that was exceptable way to treat a horse. Now the poor pony has so many issues and watching that vid just made my blood boil to think what he was subjected to under the pretence that it is a kinder way.
NH has it's place in the right hands but alot of people go to the demos or buy the book/dvd and think it's easy. They have a go at home and then you end up with horses like Herbie.
 
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NH has it's place in the right hands but alot of people go to the demos or buy the book/dvd and think it's easy. They have a go at home and then you end up with horses like Herbie

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Absolutely Laura - and that is imho the greatest dormant problem with the Parelli system that will become apparent in time - they are trying to impose distance learning approaches on something that is not appropriate for that approach. Nothing beats hands on lessons and an instructor/coach on the ground working with you.
 
What a thoroughly horrible bit of 'training'. I would agree with a previous post that suggests the horse only has one eye it certainly looks like it - this horse is likely to 'look around' a lot as its the only way it can see all around itself! I have always enjoyed watching PP on TV (not live you need to re-mortgage to go and watch them dont you?) however, I've never warmed to LP! This really is how NOT to work with a horse, I cannot get over all the conflicting signals she's giving. Shocking! i would love to know what the official Parelli camp would make of this thread...
 
If this as stated is a one eyed horse, then that makes her treatment of the poor animal even worse. A horse with one eye will have a heightened sense in all senses including his flight instinct, and he was putting into practice his flight instinct to get away from this person that only inflicted pain on him.

I certainly cannot see a dangerous horse here at all, and surely if a horse was THAT dangerous to hospitalise a rider you would never ever have your back to it, not even for a split second, because if it was that dangerous he would take that split second to flatten and hurt you.

It was only yesterday someone told me how parelli taught lungeing, which is the most dangerous, stupid and ill thought out method ever.
 
Aaargh! Beats head against wall. People are still using NH and Parelli as interchangeable terms. NH DOES NOT = Parelli.
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Now I've got that out of my system...
If you maximise the video you can clearly see that the horse is missing an eye on the near side. I didn't notice until I enlarged the image.
For anyone who says it's not Linda Parelli, of course it is! She's teaching on a Parelli lesson. (I've seen her in the flesh enough times, so trust me it's her).
All I can say is that it doesn't have to be this way, there are a lot of trainers that get grouped under the "NH" banner (often against their will) who get great results from horses, keep people safe, and never resort to this sort of approach.
"Horse will kill owner", yep, that was the argument used on me to explain that it was OK to be hard on my horse. It was complete and utter rubbish, as I fortunately proved to myself by going to different people for help.
 
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Ok so as a complete contrast, have a look at how Klaus Ferdinand Hemphling works. I have to be honest, the first time I saw him in action he let this particular horse go loose in the arena (Hartpury 2008). I genuinely thought "ok so THIS should be interesting" He had this horse eating out of his hand in under 20 mins. THis horse reminded me of one I have who reacts as though you have stung him with a cattle prod.



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I was on this two day 'Borderline demonstration' and saw it very differently. It began very well but imo deteriorated after KFH went to get the carrots for this horse and for me that initial 'wow' was never repeated in any of the following horse interactions. One horse was repeatedly rapped on the muzzle with the handle of the lunging whip, KFH imo got his body language wrong at times. He believes horses must be shod for work and must have time in stables to get peace from other horses.
KFH imo has a lot to give on human personal development but I do wonder about his practical skills after that demo, and was surprized at his less than holistic approach. Just my opinion.
Many trainers have something or part that we don't agree with but for me hitting, sending loads of ineffective signals is not something I wish to emulate.
Also putting a video, like the Parelli one highlighted on this thread out for students, is shocking imo.
 
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Ok so as a complete contrast, have a look at how Klaus Ferdinand Hemphling works. I have to be honest, the first time I saw him in action he let this particular horse go loose in the arena (Hartpury 2008). I genuinely thought "ok so THIS should be interesting" He had this horse eating out of his hand in under 20 mins. THis horse reminded me of one I have who reacts as though you have stung him with a cattle prod.



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I was on this two day 'Borderline demonstration' and saw it very differently. It began very well but imo deteriorated after KFH went to get the carrots for this horse and for me that initial 'wow' was never repeated in any of the following horse interactions. One horse was repeatedly rapped on the muzzle with the handle of the lunging whip, KFH imo got his body language wrong at times. He believes horses must be shod for work and must have time in stables to get peace from other horses.
KFH imo has a lot to give on human personal development but I do wonder about his practical skills after that demo, and was surprized at his less than holistic approach. Just my opinion.
Many trainers have something or part that we don't agree with but for me hitting, sending loads of ineffective signals is not something I wish to emulate.
Also putting a video, like the Parelli one highlighted on this thread out for students, is shocking imo.

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I must have missed the lunge whip incident then... There were "areas" I did not agree with but that had nothing to do with the training or handling of the horse. But I do have a horse who needs "down time" (but this horse is a strange one anyway!) I have never heard / seen him advocate any out and out smacking of horses in his training. Most certainly not to the level of the subject of this debate.

For my own I tend to take a lot from a lot of trainers and so long as it is Ethologically sound and causes no harm to my horses then it works for me (and clearly my horses too) I certainly wont have someone dictate to me "my way or the highway" - at that point I choose the highway!
 
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So lets start a pettion about boycotting their exhibtions and dvds and such like and a word to the BHS

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I would very much like to see evidence that the BHS is including Parelli as part of its syllabus, as some people have said. I doubt it. Last I heard (several years ago) they were looking to include more study of behaviour, groundwork & body language skills. If that plan ever got launched, it was the BHS's way of teaching generic elements of natural horsemanship, which should arguably be just horsemanship that everybody should know and use when appropriate - not Parelli as such.
 
@ Naturally. Might have to do some digging then, cos that was the last I heard. It was also most certainly being taught at one notable college (name escapes me @ the mo though) who had BHS exams as part of their offer - included in their "horse courses"

I remember feeling a little chilled at the time. Just what I heard. I have no further interest in BHS exams so disn't persue that line.
 
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I have never heard / seen him advocate any out and out smacking of horses in his training. Most certainly not to the level of the subject of this debate.


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KFH certainly doesn't advocate hitting at all in his books or DVD's. My sister was a serious student of his methods and philosophy and she was disappointed and surprized. We all see different things too as well.
No the rapping on the muzzle was no where in the league of this vid and I don't mean to distract the discussion, just couldn't help myself!
 
No need to add any more shocked responses to the long list, but just to add that I felt as sick watching that as I did when reading about Amersham and other such cases. What made this particularly hard to watch was the way the ONE EYED horse simply couldn't understand what it was meant to do - it was punished for each and every response it gave. I understand that horses who do not respect human space can be dangerous but this is not the way through the problem. You would think that someone with an ounce of horse sense would realise that a one-eyes horse is going to behave differently - its chance of being eaten by a monster have just gone up by 50% - so special and apprpriate treatment maybe Linda??? I have met a well known advocate and practitioner of NH who abhors the Parellis after attending a demo where he saw downright abuse. Years ago I thought there was something in Parelli that I should learn - I bought some of the kit and had a couple of sessions with a local practitioner - end result one very confused and nervous horse and one extremely guilty owner. I'm going to dig all the stuff out of the attic tomorrow and put it on eBay. Better still perhaps just burn it so it doesn't get handed on....
 
QR - BTW I am still to hear from the BHS regarding their response to thise awful bit of film and their affiliation to Parelli. Disappointing but I shall give them until Monday, then email again and let you all know the response.
 
Have finally managed to see it (all I got last night was an advert for Ibuprofen
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I wouldn't have said that horse was dangerous, just jumpy and didn't want to keep his feet still. I couldn't watch all of the video, it was too awful. She's just a bully and all she succeeded in doing was frightening the horse.

FWIW I have a horse who was far worse than the one in the vid - big, bolshy, rude, ignorant and sometimes aggressive. No respect for people or personal space, wouldn't lead, wouldn't stand, would barge you out of the way to go where he wanted etc etc. I struggled to deal with it and had a Kelly Marks RA out. She was fantastic - she wasn't aggressive like Linda Parelli was on the video, she was calm, consistent and gave the horse clear messages. I won't claim she was all hearts and flowers with him because she most certainly wasn't, but everything was done calmly, the horse given clear signals, and most importantly, when he got something right or stopped a particular behaviour, the pressure was released and he was praised copiously. Within 45 mins, I had a horse who I could move around everywhere, who moved out of my space, stood nicely and loaded (he would rear on the ramp before, barge out backwards, forwards, kick hell out of the trailer if he did go on..). THAT is how "natural horsemanship" should be. It most certainly shouldn't be what Linda Parelli is doing there. Parelli is nothing but a clever marketing ploy.

One point I would like to make though.. what she's doing is no different to a few on here who claim the use of "Mr Blue Pipe" for a horse who won't do as it is asked...
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@ Naturally. Might have to do some digging then, cos that was the last I heard. It was also most certainly being taught at one notable college (name escapes me @ the mo though) who had BHS exams as part of their offer - included in their "horse courses"

I remember feeling a little chilled at the time. Just what I heard. I have no further interest in BHS exams so disn't persue that line.

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Sounds slightly different. Would it have been Reaseheath you are thinking of? As far as I am aware, they are the only horse college to offer NH training (I think). If that is the case I can confirm it is generic, NOT Parelli.

Same course also includes the equivilant of BHS Stable management up to level 3, and the college offers BHS exams etc.
 
The Parelli people were full of excitement a while back, talking about how level 1 was going to be incorporated in BHS stage 1. I'm pretty sure nothing came of it.
I was bothered by the idea as well. If you're going to incorporate some nh-style stuff, surely it would be better to try to use the best, rather than just plump for the one that is highest profile? Then again, maybe it never was more than someone's pipe dream. There are so many differences in how Parelli would deal with basic horse handling to the way BHS like things done, I can't see how it would have got off the ground.
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