Pedigree Dogs Exposed Three Years On

DG I do have to say, the dog I grew up with died in 1996/1997 or so. We did not get another for another few years and I noticed a difference then. And then again in 2008 the difference was like day and night and as you say I have now gone to the dark side :p and he displays much of the qualities of a showline dog whelped in 1983.

The original female I am talking about would have been way too much for the average pet home in terms of someone looking for a big laid back sofa-surfer, who did not like to snack on pet rabbits :p.
But to me she was the epitome of the breed and I would love to find another like her someday.

I am not slagging showlines, there are of course showlines who can work and workinglines with good enough conformation to show, there are health problems in working lines too obviously but I wish there was a more uniform type.

ETA Yes, the blind, deaf stud but it's OK because he throws winners.
 
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but CC less uniformity = more diversity = GOOD for the breed as a whole. Watch a vizzie class one day, you couldnt describe the breed as having much uniformity at all, types are very varied and only dogs from same lines have same look to them, whilst all undeniabley being the same breed and 'correct'. I love to see this in the show ring, it means, quite simply that as yet our breed has not succumb to a small genepool and we still have diversity...I did say yet!
 
Vizzy I knew it was something to do with the blue merle, isnt it you should never breed a blue merle to a blue merle.

I take it no one knows about the Peke, it had to be carried into the ring and had noticeable problems but ended up being champion.
 
Are there any other breeds which would benefit from briefly mixing with another breed? (like the Dalmations X Pointers)

**(Obviously not talking about designer crosses)
 
Vizslak said:
but CC less uniformity = more diversity = GOOD for the breed as a whole. Watch a vizzie class one day, you couldnt describe the breed as having much uniformity at all, types are very varied and only dogs from same lines have same look to them, whilst all undeniabley being the same breed and 'correct'. I love to see this in the show ring, it means, quite simply that as yet our breed has not succumb to a small genepool and we still have diversity...I did say yet!
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I don't think you could say my breed has a small gene pool :p
No issue with diversity and different types within reason but there have been so many human-generated 'experiments' with colour and coat type and size and height and weight and offshoots (Shilohs, Kings, Pandas) and there are some you would be hard pressed to call a GSD. JMO :)
 
Jake10 said:
Are there any other breeds which would benefit from briefly mixing with another breed? (like the Dalmations X Pointers)

**(Obviously not talking about designer crosses)
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Yes lots probably!

ets. any of the brachophillic breeds would undoubtedly benefit from outcrossing to something with more snout!
I wonder if CKCS could be saved by this method too?
 
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I thought it was a good balanced programme,did`nt know that juvenile nephritus was in Boxers,what with their heart problems too ,that is sad. The same old reaction though is`nt it...ostrich syndrome.Why on earth can those breeders meet problems face on and deal with it? Did`nt do two big names in boxers any favours at all. Funny though,it said that JHN was a recessive gene ..whereas work in Australia has always said it is a dominant..something I have always questioned in bull terriers.Cases pop up even from kidney tested parents of good age,not really possible in a dominant gene.
As for breed clubs ostracising well meaning members who speak out...so stupid ..and so so typical.
 
sorry I went to bed after my previous comment! Cinnamontoast, yes that was my suggestion, they weren't dealing with it well when it really could be, a bit like HYPP in quarter horses, they could get rid of the problem entirely if they wanted to.

Re the bulldog the only thing I thought was that we didn't get to see the rest of the class, what if all of the dogs had faces like that? what is a judge going to do then? send them all home

eta EK it might be more than one gene effect ie two genes can cause he issue one when dominant and one when recessive, each of which can produce the same phenotype which makes them even more difficult to find.
 
Just posted this on another thread, but I cannot understand why some people are so opposed to outcrossing for health, as in the case of Dalmatians.
 
Spudlet said:
Just posted this on another thread, but I cannot understand why some people are so opposed to outcrossing for health, as in the case of Dalmatians.
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because you have to be patient, and if only done once (as in this case I think maybe!) all of the animals are then going to come from the same line which is probably not the best idea. I don't know how many back crosses were done to get back to the dalmation looking dog?
 
Ester, re the bulldogs, if all the dogs in the class were the same then yes, the judge is actually full entitled to withhold the places. It is more commonly done at championship shows but I have seen instances at smaller shows where there has only been one dog in a class and the judge has withheld the prize. In GSDs it is usually because the dog has a bad temperament i.e. nervous and backs away from the judge.
 
If the breed I loved was unable to breathe, I'd like to think I'd have the patience required to do something about. It seems that a few heads are being buried in the sand about just how much some breeds are suffering. Dogs that have a high chance of being born with deformities should be seen as a disgrace, not just as one of those things. But I got the impression that for some people on that programme, the fact that their dogs were suffering had become so normal to them that they no longer saw it. That's the charitable explanation... The uncharitable one is that they put winning before health and welfare.
 
I don't mean that people on this thread are burying their heads - I was thinking of some of the breeders on the programme btw! :)
 
Dobiegirl said:
CC I misunderstood you are talking about the blue merle which is producing blind and deaf dogs.
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I went for a read, I think the problem is more that the breeders intentionally bred a double merle (blind and deaf) to use as a guaranteed producer of merles stud dog. The resultant progeny won at westminster.

http://www.astraean.com/borderwars/2011/06/double-merle-breeders-dont-want-you-to-see-this.html

http://www.astraean.com/borderwars/2012/02/westminster-rewards-cruelty.html
 
Ester as MM has said re the bulldogs, its actually fairly common place for a judge to withhold places, it causes a bit of a stir but its not unusual.
I wonder if a sensible step to take in the case of the 15 high profile breeds would be to provide them all with outside judges, ie train up a load of people outside of the breed to become breed specific judges. Mr thingy in the KC video would probably be one of the only ones not with a place witheld in bulldogs. It would be controversial but would surely urge breeders to look at what they are producing if they cant get anywhere in the ring with them.
 
Dobiegirl said:
I take it no one knows about the Peke, it had to be carried into the ring and had noticeable problems but ended up being champion.
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They generally are carried into the ring. The breed originated as a dog of the royal courts and was bred deliberately with the "rolling" gait to discourage wandering. The breed does have specific recognised health issues but there are, like any breed, excellent healthy examples too. So what "noticeable problems" have you assessed this dog to have from watching it on television / youtube without actually going over the dog in person?
 
My mother has excused shy, very skinny and lame dogs in the past 'she's only a wee bit lame' - what?!. And usually got yelled at for her troubles *sigh*.
We had a circular last week reminding us to present dogs in good condition or they risked being excused.
 
ester said:
do the peke's have the same temperature regulation issues as the pugs as mentioned in last nights show? I would just imagine that with all that coat that would be even harder. I have to say I am not very comfortable watching it breathing (while sat completely still) in parts of this footage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4s-aK1lM-w&feature=related
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Unfortunately like Crufts the temperature inside the Garden (where Westminster DS is held) is akin to a tropical forest. NO excuse being made at all for a panting peke by the way. But many dogs, even short coats pant excessively in this instance.

A good Canadian friend who is not ivolved in pekes but has excellent lifetime knowledge of the breed as her mother was a famous breeder told me it is considered by many to be one of the best and healthiest around for many years.

I wonder how many of you in equine are either associated with / or breed specific breeds that have known health problems, serious problems, due to fashion and fad for accentuating conformational points?
 
No me neither. I have to say the only real comparison I can make to the equine world is the breeding of shetlands to make them smaller and resulting dwarfism, unnaturally short cannon bones etc. This may make me naive that I cant draw other direct comparisions. Either way, not involved with anything in that respect.
 
maybe, if that is the best and healthiest around, as said last night re ckcs breeders have not done a great job of being able show they can breed healthy dogs.

and no, I have an old pony with no accentuated conformational points, who only looks a little like his breed in the show ring, and generally much slimmer ;). I think the problem is less of an issue with most horse breeds because, essentially most people still want to be able to ride their horses which leads to certain things having to be in the right place!

Vizzy, poss the 'seahorse' heads in arabs and some minis too, which can restrict breathing.
 
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