Pedigree pups not KC registere

[Goldenstar]

Why not just simply go to a rescue........

I have often considered taking a rescue dog but having seen the experiance of others I always stepped away .
I may be over cautious but when you have known all your dogs before conception in most cases I find it worrys me to take on something that that has issues that makes it a problem all our dogs have lived with cats happily been able to be trained to roam the yard all day with me without ******ing off follow the horses and sit by them while other dog owners try to control their wild nutters not trouble stock be excellent at accepting strange dogs in their home be very good with strangers.
I know when I get a pup I can achieve this easily with a mixture of peer pressure and training I am not sure I could achieve it easily with a rescue.
In mitigation I do always get rescue cats.

 

[ribbons]

I didn't say YOU were responsible for the suffering endured by these poor bitches.
I said your attitude to registration was in part to blame.
Of course you have nothing to do with the abuse of brood bitches. But you surely must agree that if KC registration does nothing else it at least affords them some protection from unscrupulous breeders, and as such warrants decent dog owners support and should encourage us all to spread the word to Joe Public, who possibly doesn't understand the implications of encouraging these breeders by buying their unregistered pups.
I do agree with CaveCanem, the KC is far from perfect, and like most organisations, has much room for improvement. But buying unregistered pups over registered ones will not solve the issues you have with them. It just adds even more scope for poorly bred puppies.
I apologise if my comments came across as a personal accusation, that was not what I meant. Simply that not everyone has the opportunity to be sure of their purchase without the safety net of KC rules. You are happy with your own knowledge, but please, spare a thought for those that haven't got it, and don't discourage others from something that would put an end
to abused breeding stock.
if only people refused to spend good money on unregistered
pups the money grabbing breeders would soon be out of business, and the decent breeders who wouldn't want to overbreed their precious bitch anyway would just add £15 to purchase price and no one loses out, least of all the bitch.
I really have no idea why a genuine honest breeder would avoid registering the litter, if bitch is a healthy breeding age and has not had more than 1 litter per year and no more than 4 in total. Why not register them.
I still maintain breeders of unregistered pedigree dogs are hiding something. Otherwise what have they got to lose.

 

[MurphysMinder]

At a slight tangent, but relevant to this, I have just received yet another phone call from someone who has got my name from the KC Assured Breeders list. They are looking for a GSD pup, I told them I had nothing planned and asked if they had tried other ABs in the area. The reply was they are not even from my area but are now searching further afield, all the ABs they have contacted have said they are not planning on breeding at the moment due to the financial situation/dogs in rescue etc. Yet there are always plenty of pups advertised on gumtree and the like, more often than not without papers, health tests etc.
I'm not sure what the answer is but it is a worrying trend.

ETS I also had an answerphone message from someone from the ABS wanting to come and do a visit (haven't had one since I joined the scheme). When she calls back not sure whether to tell her not to bother as I am not going to breed any more (which might sounds like I am trying to hide something), or invite her to come when she will find the "puppy room" full of furniture and not exactly looking set up for puppy rearing.

 

[blackcob]

I really have no idea why a genuine honest breeder would avoid registering the litter, if bitch is a healthy breeding age and has not had more than 1 litter per year and no more than 4 in total. Why not register them.
I still maintain breeders of unregistered pedigree dogs are hiding something. Otherwise what have they got to lose.

Slightly unrelated but for anyone interested I did eventually track down D's pedigree (she came with a handwritten five gen but was not KC registered, and no I didn't buy her as a pup from the breeder before anyone starts ). The bitch had four registered litters, all to the same sire, which sounds to me like a BYB with a pair of 'pet' dogs who had a litter off her every year. D would have been born just under two years after the last registered litter, so the bitch would have been nine years old and the litter therefore not eligible for registration. I actually managed to get an address for the breeder and Google maps shows a very dire looking sink estate. No response to a very polite letter asking for info.

So yes, the litter was unregistered because they had something to hide, namely that the poor bitch was nothing but a puppy producing machine.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I bet the poor bitch had a litter between the last registered one and D's too. All litters to the same sire does definitely sound like a BYB. Was the breeder local ?

 

[blackcob]

Yes the cynic in me wondered the same, there would have been time in between for another litter. And of course I have no way of proving that D is from these same dogs but it seems likely given that that mating happened at least four times that can be proven.

Not local but way oop North, she was sold as a pup to someone in the same town (have original vaccination record with dates on for this time) then between then and me having her at just under six months somehow was sold on to the chap from Telford. He may have only had her for a matter of a couple of weeks before selling her on to me!

 

[misterjinglejay]

Thank the gods, she's now with you, BC - who knows where she would've ended up!

 

[RichmondPark]

You know little things make a big difference and buyer power is the best tool. If more people made an effort to seek out good breeders and if breeders upped their game things would be so much better all. If people can't sell the puppies they are breeding if they don't do the health tests or registration of one form or another then the breed would be much better off. A half decent load of publicity would help. Lovely dogs tragic what is happening to them

Exactly why I direct folks to a breed club if they are after a well bred pedigree, bred within the code of ethics of the club. It is such a shame they are not used more often by Joe Bloggs before buying a pup as the amount of information a 30min phone call can give could change peoples minds about how they go around purchasing a dog and also change people minds about owning a dog full stop if they are not suitable for the breed and its needs.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I look at the showing classes at crufts on the telly and want nothing to do with anything in that world .

What has Crufts got to do with anything? It's not my cup of tea either. It's just a big dog show. Shunning responsible breeding/record keeping/accountability because of one dog show among thousands is a bit alien to me.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Exactly why I direct folks to a breed club if they are after a well bred pedigree, bred within the code of ethics of the club. It is such a shame they are not used more often by Joe Bloggs before buying a pup as the amount of information a 30min phone call can give could change peoples minds about how they go around purchasing a dog and also change people minds about owning a dog full stop if they are not suitable for the breed and its needs.

I actually put the guy who called me this morning in touch with the secretary of the GSD League, so totally agree with you.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I would also always recommend people contact the GSD League for advice or contact/visit a club belonging to the League or the League's working branch - the best way to source a pup is to look at adult dogs either working or just being dogs and see what you best like the look or character of. You're going to have the dog for ten years or more, do a bit of research and take your time, no need to rush!!

Showline dogs and workingline dogs and healthy pets, are not mutually exclusive. In fact, you can have a dog who can work, show and live in your house without eating your children or it's legs falling off

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I'd be interested to hear views on these currently fashionable cross breeds where both parents are KC registered but obviously the pup won't be.

Would it only matter if the pup would then be used for breeding?

What defines a back yard breeder?

*I do not breed dogs, I do not even own a dog. But I am thinking about getting a dog in the future (maybe a couple of years when the children are older) so I am looking into different breeds to see which would suit us best. I have no intention of breeding, the dog would be 'just' a pet.

**neither am I interested in a dog as a fashion statement. I've gone from poodles to puggles (pug x beagle) to greyhounds and almost everything in between!

I have tried to answer your questions in a new thread.
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=11491581#post11491581