People who run down BHS exams have usually failed them themselves??????

Hi

I took my BHS Stage 1 exam last week and havent had the results back yet..

I think it is good that equine establishments should have 'standards' and therefore think the BHS is a good thing.

However i must say the last examiner i had on the day was particularly unfriendly & seemed to pick on me left, right and centre above the other candidates who i noticed got a few major things wrong.

The questions were asked in the wrong manner and when i asked for the question to be repeated i got a very 'huffy/sigh' response, it would not surprise me if i had failed because of this - humiliating!
 
i passed my stage 1 many years ago , but the bhs stages are a joke , the standard of riding is generally awfull, and not just due to bad riding but because they are taught to ride that way, Around me they all seem to ride with thier elbows straight and such fixed hands....
and some of the horse care bears no resembleance to the real world either. the only reason i can see for taking your stages is to reduce insurance costs for working on a yard
 
I like the BHS as an institution and think that the exams - when taken for what they are rather than giving instructors 'fount of all knowledge status' - are an important feature. I have only taken my stage 1 (though I hope this doesn't reflect my riding abilities as I'm no expert but know more than the basics). I found the exam was well run, the examiners were polite and encouraging as far as was fair, and the two horses I rode were responsive and well schooled.

In fact, I decided to take a post-university gap year with the hope of getting my AI (or at least my PTT). I found a centre (an RS not a college) that looked smart and that came recommended, albeit the recommendations were 3-4 years old. The interview went well on both sides and I joined as a WP.

I left at the end of the first week. I was horrified by the standard of care and the standard of teaching. Ill-fitting, filthy tack was used on the RS horses, beds were vile, ponies were left standing in their tack all day, some without access to water, all without access to hay. They lived out at night (fine) but were in from 8am to 6pm without food (NOT fine!), were never groomed or even checked by anyone apart from kids who volunteered at the weekends.

There was no clear management structure, so I would have one YM giving me an instruction, then another screaming blue murder at me for carrying it out.

I count myself incredibly fortunate that I was in a position to leave and find a job elsewhere (eventually!). As I said, I am still all for the BHS, and the ideals they stand for. However, this experienced really opened my eyes, and I strongly feel that they need to find a more surefire way of enforcing those ideals. Or at the least, of ensuring that basic standards of care and teaching are maintained at approved yards.

I have known excellent BHS approved yards (I learnt to ride at one as a child), but if this was the only example I had come across then I would be joining in with running down the exams.
 
The BHS system provides a graduated standard which is universally understood in the industry. In many ways the NVQ system could have been a better and fairer method, but there are too many assessors and standards vary considerably.

I have qualified up to my BHS SM - worked hard for all my exams and was proud of my achievements. I do get disillusioned now as I have seen many people swot up and get through their stable managers cert when I know they have never been in charge of a yard in their life - and that frustrates me terribly.

I also know many colleagues - some I rate, some I don't that have achieved the BHSI and this means the qualification has lost some of its appeal to me. I can't be bothered with the amount of sucking up you have to do to get through the equit and teaching - it shouldn't be about being seen by the right people - and that is what annoys me!

II and I exams are not easy to pass, especially the riding and teaching aspects - each exam is a hurdle in its own right, and with the expense involved all those who give it a go should be commended. It isn't easy to train students up for BHS exams - and yes, I do agree some of the hoops you have to jump through can seem rather OTT - for example folding the rug before putting it on. But it's done this way for safety, and yes I still use that method for putting rugs on youngsters for the first time - but not in general!

You definitely teach "the BHS way" to pass exams - but you just have to accept that and get on with it. Once the exam is passed you can go back to methods you prefer!

As for college students leaving without their AI - sorry, but that comment is unfair! I have trained many over the years - and, albeit a small minority, but there are students regularly leaving colleges with their AI complete. (I went from my stage 2 to fully qualified II in two years at college when I was 20 so it can be done!).

My advice - if you want to do it - go for it. It's not the be all and end all, and doesn't mean that without the piece of paper that you cannot be an expert horseman or woman - far from it. But I can honestly say I don't regret doingmy exams, and after a break for kids, I am seriously considering completing my BHSI too. If I can pluck up the courage!!:eek::D
 
ktxsuperstar41 said:
Hi

I took my BHS Stage 1 exam last week and havent had the results back yet..

I think it is good that equine establishments should have 'standards' and therefore think the BHS is a good thing.

However i must say the last examiner i had on the day was particularly unfriendly & seemed to pick on me left, right and centre above the other candidates who i noticed got a few major things wrong.

The questions were asked in the wrong manner and when i asked for the question to be repeated i got a very 'huffy/sigh' response, it would not surprise me if i had failed because of this - humiliating!
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Will keep fingers crossed for you! Sadly this sort of complaint re examiners is all to common - and is well out of order when you consider the expense you have gone through to be there. Even more sadly, it is not in your interest to complain!
 
BHS have modified their system so one can take PTT without Stage 3. Check out their website. Also the UK Coaching Certificate may interest many people from the 'disciplines' as entry from each member body ( endurance, pony club, showjumping, eventing, dressage, horse ball, vaulting etc) varies but previous experience, not just exams come into consideration. BHS offer this route too, but will require their Stages. ABRS route is certainly achievable for non jumpers and is a good exam to show individual skills ratherbthan the group sessions within each BHS exam. Having done both I still think most riders only take exams for self confidence in the equestrian world, and a knock back often stops them part way through. Nothing like experience, but no harm either in learning another way. Nothing like choice with knowledge is there?
 
Whilst not wanting to reignite a long and heated debate on the merits of the BHS exam system can I ask you, if you feel you have been unfairly treated, to get in touch with the BHS. They do investigate complaints and are making a huge effort to “get things right” but need to have feedback in order to do so. They are aware of the Chinese whispers that circulate many of which are not factual. In certain circles it does seem to be a bit of a pastime to “have a go at the BHS”, surely as this exam system is the most widely recognised that we have in the UK it would better if people spend their time helping to improve it rather than slating it constantly. As I have said before there is definitely no “blacklist” and making a complaint won’t influence and future exams for you.

I am sure many people who have negative feelings about this system are basing their information on what has happened in the past and would be surprised at the current content and structure of the exam system which is constantly evolving to try to keep itself relevant to the equine industry. It is obviously an impossible task to monitor the practices of everyone who has BHS qualifications or approved yards on a day to day basis but this equally would be the case in many other professions however it is only by communicating with those who can make changes i.e. the BHS that problems can be resolved.
 
I think the basic system works very well. It ensures that all instructors have a basic level of confidence. Thus said I failed my stage III riding when I was 18 and was so angry I never took it again although did think of doing so when I turned 40! However even then (I was eventing at Intermediate level) I didn't think it was that fair. Tall willowy girls who weren't effective at all seemed to pass no bother and those of us slightly less so didn't - however well the horses went.

Anyway it made me leave the horse industry for which I am eternally grateful. Far better as a hobby for me!
 
EventingMum said:
Whilst not wanting to reignite a long and heated debate on the merits of the BHS exam system can I ask you, if you feel you have been unfairly treated, to get in touch with the BHS. They do investigate complaints and are making a huge effort to “get things right” but need to have feedback in order to do so. They are aware of the Chinese whispers that circulate many of which are not factual. In certain circles it does seem to be a bit of a pastime to “have a go at the BHS”, surely as this exam system is the most widely recognised that we have in the UK it would better if people spend their time helping to improve it rather than slating it constantly. As I have said before there is definitely no “blacklist” and making a complaint won’t influence and future exams for you.
QUOTE]

In fairness to BHS - my comments re complaints do stem from credible sources - but - that was some time ago. I am really pleased the BHS are being proactive - but do still feel that not all "examinees" (is that the correct term?!) are treated as clients during the exams (and this is from recent experience), but hopefully this aspect is improving.

I am not a BHS "basher" - I wholeheartedly support the system.

One thing has surprised me from the candidates I have trained recently - is that they have all preferred to take the riding and care aspects separately as they felt the day was too long. I wondered if this was becoming a trend?
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ktxsuperstar41 said:
Hi

I took my BHS Stage 1 exam last week and havent had the results back yet..

I think it is good that equine establishments should have 'standards' and therefore think the BHS is a good thing.

However i must say the last examiner i had on the day was particularly unfriendly & seemed to pick on me left, right and centre above the other candidates who i noticed got a few major things wrong.

The questions were asked in the wrong manner and when i asked for the question to be repeated i got a very 'huffy/sigh' response, it would not surprise me if i had failed because of this - humiliating!
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I was always told that if the examiners keep questioning you it is because they are interested in you, and think that you are not showing enough of what you know.... so you may pass...

I did my AI twenty years ago, and thought it wasn't that easy! I don't see why someone who is afrraid of jumping should be allowed to pass - how can you teach basic jumping if you don't know yourself... The jumps are not massive at AI standard. I'm quite nervous above pre-novice, and think that is one of the major reasons that I'm quite good at teaching other people who get nervous, however I do actually jump myself!

I had a ten year break from horses, and was shocked at how everyone had become "self proclaimed experts" in the meantime. So many people tell me that they should be AIs nowadays. So do it!

I'm actually more worried by the number of students churning out with equine degrees. A lot of these (that I have seen) wouldn't even pass their stage 2, yet are advertising themselves as equine behaviour experts simply because they can write essays on the subjects. Few of them have ever worked on a proper yard (other than a couple of weeks placement) and many have their own yards on leaving uni, courtesy of mum and dad, where local novices think they will be getting top level instruction because they have a degree...
 
I don't think its people who have failed at all, but I do wonder why when people pass their AI they constantly have to tell you "I have got my AI" I have passed my driving test, my cycling proficiency test & my test for spraying weedkiller, but I don't constantly tell everyone that. I think its good to have a structured exam system, but for me I would always go to an experienced discipline specific coach, having encountered an AI who was unable to poultice a foot & who told a BS accredited coach that BS build their distances too long, ie 16 paces for a 3 stride related as opposed to BHS who would build it at 13 paces, think that says it all really.
 
I'm not a big fan of the BHS Exam system, and I've never taken any of their exams, so it isn't sour grapes. Well, okay, I have my Riding and Road Safety, passed first time, if that matters! Can't even remember why I took it, YO encouraged me to I think!
I've known 4 FsBHS that I really would not want near any of my horses. One was an absolute butcher. I wasn't the only one who thought so, either. His Stable Management training was utterly useless too, verging into dangerous, and he got people hospitalised by his bad practices. He never taught me, he wasn't my boss or anything, so again this isn't sour grapes - just based on observation.
I've seen very good riders fail, and average (or worse) riders pass, their BHS exams.
I really don't like the dogmatism of some of those in the BHS system, and a fixed, inflexible outlook around animals is never a great idea imho.
 
i have my AI, and quite honestly hated doing the exams, not becuase they are hard, or the exam style conditons (i love exams hahaa - werido i know!)

but the old fuddy duddy, back in the day, word war 1 veterans that are the examinars...... (sorry but its true!)

i never once had anyone of "normal working age" , and honestly who does tie a horse up EVERY single time they go in the horses stable, and when i answered my feeding questions in KG, i got asked to change to lbs, ...... again too old to be in the know about other things! again the feeding so very old fashioned, I myself have been taught very old school, but some of the practicies are just ancient, and yes some of the old ways are the best...but not all. I feel that they need to have a re-think.

I teach at pony club, freelance and various clubs etc, and judge, and if u want to teach etc you have to do them as nothing else is as highly regarded but jesus i hope the BHS soon get some younger examiners! pls......:)

Rant over
 
galaxy23 said:
I am yet to meet a college student come out with their AI! So I wouldn't worry about their standards too much!

Weezy, your friend who had their stage 1 and was doing their PTT will be in for a shock at the exam when she realised she needs her Stage 2 first!! I have never read in any BHS book that you HAVE to clean your horses sheath, so she was only spouting.

and for the earlier poster who said they could physically do the Stage 3 XC but wanted to teach, you can get insurance and not be qualified. If that's what you want to do, have a look into it.
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I did (although you havnt met me!)
but off a course of 54, there was only me that did, and i took all but my stage 1 off my own back , if i would have waited for the college encourage me to do them it would have taken forever, lol.
 
I have my AI and I can agree with some people......I worked a lot with horses when i was younger, always had horses and consider my self experienced....BUT i never took any formal training at all for these exams, i read the books to make sure i was up to speed and that was it.
Passed all of them easy and the riding side too. Now that might be a refection on my being good with horses or have i just got a good memory.
If someone says they are an AI i don't take that as them being really good at anything.

As for Stage 4 and above, i do believe you have to be working and riding ini the industry to pass these exams, they don't like you to um and ah about things but it shoul droill off the tounge and should all confidently done.
I have looked in to doing this and as i work in an office i have decided not to take it.

PTT isn't that easy to pass they are strict on that one.
 
i hold my BHSAI (and have never re-registered as an instructor since i passed it, some people look at it like dirt others welcome with open arms, personally i think the lot is a shambles!)

i then took my stage 4, and hated every minute, and how old fashioned it all is, and vowed never to do anything "BHS" again, i passed all my exams with flying colours (except my stage 2 where i failed for being stiff in my lower back after a BAD fall 2 days b4 the exam?! I even took a note to the examinaers from the hospital & doctor, they could see that i could jump and after a full complaint the BHS let me re-do my jumping stage 1 month later for free! .....shameful that an "examiner couldnt see some stiffness at the age of 17yrs old was clearly not from tensing but shear pain and wanting to complete my exam! or maybe she was just wanting to earn teh bHS more exam fee's Im not sure)
 
For those of you on here that have done your stage four and had what seem to be reasonable lecture subjects, I had to do a fifteen minute lecture on 'Nasal Discharge'!! Anyone tried talking about snot for quarter of an hour?

Actually it went quite well!
 
No exam system is is faultless. There are areas which could be improved in the BHS exam system, but also I'm not sure if there would be a better way to test if candidates are at the required level or not? I have my BHS Stages 1,2 and 3, and PTT. I found them fairly straightforwards, but I was working in the industry day in, day out, and regularly competing my own horses. I also did my NVQ level 2 (equivalent to stage 2). I feel the BHS exam is a much better indicator of skill than the NVQ. The NVQ was so basic, and people passed who were frankly incompetent and dangerous. It was no where near the stage 2 standard.

As far as the whole AI is concerned I actually think you should have to demonstrate a higher level of riding than the current stage 3 standard to gain your AI. IMO the stage 3 level of riding is nowhere near the level I feel is required to be an AI. I would propose to get your AI you should have to do your stage 3 (care and riding), then you have to demonstrate extra skill in your chosen discipline. So if you chose eventing you would have to have decent results (3 clear xc rounds, reasonable sj and dressage prehaps)at BE Novice, then you would get the BHSAI (eventing), for Dressage scores over 65% at Elementary, and for SJ 3 clear rounds at Newcomers to get BHSAI (SJ). I am fully aware that many people may not have the horse power to achieve these competition results. In these cases the candidate should have to be assessed (and passed to be at the level) by a BHS assessor to show their competence in their chosen discipline. This would make it easier for people to choose discipline specific instructors. I do feel it is important that the Stage 3 level of jumping should be achieved by anybody wanting to become an AI. Even if you only intend to teach dressage, the jumping still comes into the training of these horses. I don't feel that jumping a 3'3" SJ and 3' XC track is out of anybody's grasp if they want it enough. If you have a medical condition that is a whole different ball game, in which the BHS should treat each case on an individual basis.
 
Aren't the lower stages of the BHS exams equivalent to the Pony Club exams? So Stage I is roughly equivalent to B test? No teaching of course, but my B test examiner said she wanted to feel that she could leave her horse in our care for the weekend, including riding it.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the BHS system, it is how SOME people interpret it what they learn and it was introduced years ago when the BHS realised that the supply of Army instructors was going to dry up. I must be among the last generation who had regular Army instructors. It has been improved over the years and now everyone has to do DPD, which wasn't a requirement before.

I was interested to see that Charlie had to prepare a horse for the Golden Horseshoe. I think that all higher level candidates should have experience of other disciplines other than the eventing/dressage/show jumping mainstream and also learn endurance, driving, western, polo and any others because in every horse activity there is something new to learn.
 
ORANGEHORSE said:
I must be among the last generation who had regular Army instructors. It has been improved over the years and now everyone has to do DPD, which wasn't a requirement before.
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not quite - I was too :D tho to be fair, we are close to Staff College & their instructors earnt beer money to teach us on occasions. Phillip Wright was a scream to learn from! :D

I've done a little bit with BHS (only stage 4 & Intermediate Instructor :o) but if asked over the years, would always prefer to have a PC B tester level person to look after my small yard on a rare occasion then a stage 1 or 2 - but this is JUST my opinion (and maybe cos I taught a number of them locally, so they were keen to show they could do this type of thing - and that was from the levels of experience required at THAT time)

Off back to the dark ages I go....... :)
 
All I can say is I'm glad I went down the Pony Club route! Although I find it really annoying that the Stage 3 is pretty much the same as the B test yet I have too do it where I have covered most of it! And if I want to do my PTT I can either do my stage 2 of stage 3 then do it I can't just go straight to PTT.

You'd think they would try and make the pony club exams and BHS exams coexist better
 
I would like to add to the being blacklisted if you complain. I dont think this is true. I sent in formal comlaint after both my Stage 2 and PTT and passed both.

After my PTT i posted letter instantly and complained about the examiners. I did not put name but if asked the examiners would have known it was me, as I complained about not being given chance to debrief lunge lesson - this is part of syllabus and I was made to stand around for 10 mins then told to get to my theory section as I was late.

My one issue with the BHS is candidates being allowed to take exams at centres where they train and teach. One girl took PTT at centre she taught at and had her own horse in the jumping lesson. I think it should be people and horses you have not met before for teaching exams.
 
In response to a few points raised:(sorry for the length!)

Bertthefrog
One thing has surprised me from the candidates I have trained recently - is that they have all preferred to take the riding and care aspects separately as they felt the day was too long. I wondered if this was becoming a trend?
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Many candidates do sit the riding and care separately and this will become more frequent as from January candidates can sit the exam in smaller units which will be accumulated towards each stage. This is to give a more “modular” approach to the exams similar to many other qualifications on offer in education now. Taking the exam in “chunks” like this will be more expensive than sitting it all in one go but does have the advantage of candidates being able to re-sit individual units rather than the whole exam.

Tinker88
i never once had anyone of "normal working age" , and honestly who does tie a horse up EVERY single time they go in the horses stable, and when i answered my feeding questions in KG, i got asked to change to lbs,
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All the examiners (or assessors as they are now known) I work with are of normal working age with most of in their 40’s and 50’s, most having started examining in their early 30’s. The BHS also requires examiners to retire at 70. It has to be remembered that many young people will not have the necessary experience or qualifications to become examiners at a younger age. Also contrary to popular belief the remuneration received is not sufficient for some people to be able to give up other forms of employment for a long day examining.

Examiners should accept answers in Kg’s - in fact a few years ago we were issued with conversion tables for those “imperial” minded of us to be able to convert the answers given to metric units!

Kerilli
I've known 4 FsBHS that I really would not want near any of my horses. One was an absolute butcher. I wasn't the only one who thought so, either. His Stable Management training was utterly useless too, verging into dangerous, and he got people hospitalised by his bad practices

I've seen very good riders fail, and average (or worse) riders pass, their BHS exams.
I really don't like the dogmatism of some of those in the BHS system, and a fixed, inflexible outlook around animals is never a great idea imho
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Totally agree but as with every group of people there will unfortunately be some “bad apples” however I genuinely believe the BHS are doing their best to improve but obviously they can’t take away qualifications already gained in the days when they weren’t so forward thinking. It is important to remember that judging riding is very subjective and at best we can hope for a majority consensus although dangerous practices should never be tolerated.

Charlimouse
I would propose to get your AI you should have to do your stage 3 (care and riding), then you have to demonstrate extra skill in your chosen discipline.
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Not everyone wishing to gain BHS qualifications will have a specific discipline. Smaller riding schools are unlikely to employ specific dressage or jumping instructors for their weekly riders. Even the UKCC qualifications have generic options as well as discipline specific ones. It has to be remembered that not everyone wanting instruction will have competitive aspirations.

Orangehorse
Aren't the lower stages of the BHS exams equivalent to the Pony Club exams? So Stage I is roughly equivalent to B test?
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B test is not equivalent to stage 1, more like somewhere between stages 2 and 3 without such detailed knowledge of the physiology - digestion, skeleton, circulation etc

Ms Piebald
if asked over the years, would always prefer to have a PC B tester level person to look after my small yard on a rare occasion then a stage 1 or 2
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Possibly the reason most people would prefer a B tester is that most would have had experience of looking after their own horses single handed whereas many stage 1 or 2's will not have had their own horses and may have worked and trained in a solely supervised environment and so may lack the confidence and initiative to work alone. I don't think the BHS would suggest that a stage 1 or 2 would be qualified for a sole charge position.
 
charlimouse said:
As far as the whole AI is concerned I actually think you should have to demonstrate a higher level of riding than the current stage 3 standard to gain your AI. IMO the stage 3 level of riding is nowhere near the level I feel is required to be an AI. I would propose to get your AI you should have to do your stage 3 (care and riding), then you have to demonstrate extra skill in your chosen discipline. So if you chose eventing you would have to have decent results (3 clear xc rounds, reasonable sj and dressage prehaps)at BE Novice, then you would get the BHSAI (eventing), for Dressage scores over 65% at Elementary, and for SJ 3 clear rounds at Newcomers to get BHSAI (SJ). I am fully aware that many people may not have the horse power to achieve these competition results. In these cases the candidate should have to be assessed (and passed to be at the level) by a BHS assessor to show their competence in their chosen discipline. This would make it easier for people to choose discipline specific instructors. I do feel it is important that the Stage 3 level of jumping should be achieved by anybody wanting to become an AI. Even if you only intend to teach dressage, the jumping still comes into the training of these horses. I don't feel that jumping a 3'3" SJ and 3' XC track is out of anybody's grasp if they want it enough. If you have a medical condition that is a whole different ball game, in which the BHS should treat each case on an individual basis.
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Isn't the level you are talking about commensurate with the BHSII? I don't think you necessarily have to ride at a particular level to be able to teach well - I know many excellent instructors in different disciplines that do not ride to the that level.
 
I have done my stage 1 & would never do another (I passed both riding & sm by the way so no sour grapes). I do believe an exam system is necessary, but think the BHS is stuck in the 1920's. Firstly, if you don't do the BHS way you don't pass. Like all sporting disciplines, things evolve & new ideas permeate the sport. The exams make no effort to keep up to date with advancements, but stick to the way it has always been done. I was interested to read that you have to learn to fitten a horse to Horseshoe level (endurance), as I have never met a BHS instructor yet who holds an advanced endurance qualification which would allow them to do the ride. What would the BHS make of pouring ice water over major muscle groups for rapid cooling? Eating & drinking (horse) on route & at vet gates? Rapid rehydration? From what I learnt these would be on a list of things never to do (don't feed/water horse for 2 hours before exercise etc....). Dogma, beit BHS or Parelli or anyother body is not good.

I totally agree with rude, old examiners who make you feel like *****. Manners cost nothing. As a driving instructor I can say most examiiners are very polite & make an effort to get the candidate to relax & produce their true skills (or lack of).

Exams should diverge into different disciplines. I do endurance, I have no interest in jumping (used to do loads, but got bored of it) or dressage. I agree the basics should be there, buit if I want to coach a specific discipline, there should be a route to follow. As it is endurance people who want to coach are following an NVQ system & avoiding BHS exams altogether (lost customers to BHS, bbut they probably wouldn't want them as they do 'odd' things not in the manual).

I know one fellow of the BHS who abused a horse I own. In order to improve the lateral movement of this then 5 year old eventer, he used a lunge whip on her legs. Is this BHS recommended teaching technique? The really surprising thing was he did something, in all his lessons he usually just sits in a corner drinking coffee. How this guy (who ran a very well known riding/livery yard) got his fellowship or any teaching exam is amazing.

Also when I did mine I rode at a very good (recommended training centre) stables. They told me that regular customers or people who pay to train there were given the best horses in the exams. Those they had never seen before got the ones who would make them look bad or would struggle to jump the height. Great exam system.
 
I did my stages 1 and 2 at an army barracks saddle club through a YTS scheme in 1987, there were 6 of us and we had 2 horses each to look after. We also had a half hour break and an hour and a half for lunch - nothing like the real world of working with horses at all then lol!!
We all had our own horses and had competed so we were all pretty good riders anyway and had experience.
The BHS stage 1 was so easy that we all easily passed, and my thoughts afterwards was that if you failed your stage 1 you shouldn't be allowed near a horse!!

I left just before taking the stage 2 exam but all the other girls that I worked with passed the riding but failed the stable management because they didn't take the water buckets out of the stables while grooming! I mean how many people do that anyway :(

When I got a job working for an olympic dressage rider some years later, she wasn't interested in any qualifications at all anyway. She had taken her BHSAI a few years earlier for insurance purposes as she taught people. She did take her BHSII exam but was told by the examiner that she was weak and ineffective cross country... she had been round Badminton 9 times and represented GB in 2 world and 1 european championships eventing!!! After that she didn't like the BHS much either and I can't really blame her!
 
pip6 said:
I have done my stage 1 & would never do another (I passed both riding & sm by the way so no sour grapes). I do believe an exam system is necessary, but think the BHS is stuck in the 1920's. Firstly, if you don't do the BHS way you don't pass. Like all sporting disciplines, things evolve & new ideas permeate the sport. The exams make no effort to keep up to date with advancements, but stick to the way it has always been done. I was interested to read that you have to learn to fitten a horse to Horseshoe level (endurance), as I have never met a BHS instructor yet who holds an advanced endurance qualification which would allow them to do the ride. What would the BHS make of pouring ice water over major muscle groups for rapid cooling? Eating & drinking (horse) on route & at vet gates? Rapid rehydration? From what I learnt these would be on a list of things never to do (don't feed/water horse for 2 hours before exercise etc....). Dogma, beit BHS or Parelli or anyother body is not good.

I kind of agree with this, however I think the BHS is mainly concerned (at stage 1 and 2 level) with your average leisure/rc horse rather than the management of high level competition horses. I think the things you refer to would be considered inappropriate away from highly fit competition horses, and things like that should be considered in context.

BHS don't force you to follow the "best practice" required by their exams doggedly at all times though, the exam is simply about testing your knowledge. It is fine to answer I wouldn't feed or water the horse before exercise in an exam whilst quietly thinking to yourself "apart from my endurance horse who eats on the go" it is about recognising that you wouldn't do that with all horses. There are always exceptions to any rule!

I totally agree with rude, old examiners who make you feel like *****. Manners cost nothing. As a driving instructor I can say most examiiners are very polite & make an effort to get the candidate to relax & produce their true skills (or lack of).

Exams should diverge into different disciplines. I do endurance, I have no interest in jumping (used to do loads, but got bored of it) or dressage. I agree the basics should be there, buit if I want to coach a specific discipline, there should be a route to follow. As it is endurance people who want to coach are following an NVQ system & avoiding BHS exams altogether (lost customers to BHS, bbut they probably wouldn't want them as they do 'odd' things not in the manual).I think again the BHS exams are designed to be a general purpose qualification. The UKCC is more disciplin specific. It is all very well being able to perform at a high level but that won't necessarily mean you are suitable for teaching a 6 year old how to do rising trot and that is a big part of a BHSAI's job. The way the exams work is that they don't expect that sort of higher level knowledge and competition experience until the higher stages, but often people don't come to the exams until they are at a higher level and I think that is where much dissatisfaction comes from

I know one fellow of the BHS who abused a horse I own. In order to improve the lateral movement of this then 5 year old eventer, he used a lunge whip on her legs. Is this BHS recommended teaching technique? The really surprising thing was he did something, in all his lessons he usually just sits in a corner drinking coffee. How this guy (who ran a very well known riding/livery yard) got his fellowship or any teaching exam is amazing.

I don't think using a lunge whip on a horse's legs is abuse. Or if it is then an awful lot of good horsemen are animal abusers. In the last horse magazine I bought both Richard Maxwell and Claire Lilley referred to tapping a horse's legs with a long whip to teach certain things. The spanish riding school do this too. As for sitting in a corner drinking coffee - it doesn't give a great impression granted, but if all you are doing in that lesson is speaking to your client then does it matter whether you are sitting in a corner or standing in the middle? Some of the best instructors I have had sit in the corner drinking coffee (and sometimes even smoking) yet some of the worst have been on their feet - it means nothing!

Also when I did mine I rode at a very good (recommended training centre) stables. They told me that regular customers or people who pay to train there were given the best horses in the exams. Those they had never seen before got the ones who would make them look bad or would struggle to jump the height. Great exam system.

That is definitely rubbish! I ride at a where to train centre that is also an exam centre and I have been told that they don't even know who is entered for the exam. They are just given a list of heights and weights and the number of candidates and they assign horses based upon that. All of the horses *should* be capable of everything required in the exam with appropriate riding.
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Just my observations.......
 
Please don't rubbish what I say, you weren't part of the conversation I had with the yard manager who is now a fellow. He stood with a list of horses, us in front of him & assigned them. As our conversation came about because a couple of us were asking about various pass rates & if there was an advantage in taking preparation lessons at your chosen test centre first.

If you use a lunge whip to increase lateral movement, I hope you don't get the response from the horse that mine gave. Makes you wonder how hard he was 'tapping'. Worst thing is his response was to try it on the other rein, horse exploded that side to. This is a very sweet, gentle, give anything a go mare who wouldn't have known how to say no. Did PN as 5 year old, professional rider never even carried whip horse is so honest. I've never had the need to carry or use a whip on her or any of my other horses, & did not struggle to reach advanced level in my chosen affiliated discipline (may have done my stage 1 but have moved on a bit since).

I had a couple of sessions with a friend who was a bhs instructor (not AI) before the day, as not owning a horse then wanted to make sure my SM was adequate. We had a discussion about shavings beds. Now I would expect them to be fully mucked out daily (as they were when I worked on a yard later & when I have had them). At that time, the 'BHS Way' was that shavings were to be deep littered. The advice given me was to give them the answer they want to hear otherwise you will be penalised for it, they are not interested in discussion. Says a lot for the establishment attitude.

I was a BHS member for years, but decided not to renew one year as they were very inactive in my area (& I live miles from any bridleways or byways so that group didn't exist either). They kept sending me red notices through the post as though I was overdue on my yearly payment to them! On contacting them to ask them to stop sending them throough it was the ruddy spanish inquisition as to why I didn't want it anymore. It isn't just the examiners who are opinionated, stuck up & rude is all I can say. Bottom line is if for whatever reason I so chose I am allowed not to renew my membership & am not answerable to anyone, it's not the ruddy mafia.

In terms of instructors, personally to me personal experience & recommendation would mean far more to me. I'd much rather have that weak instructor without her exams who had been around Badminton 9 times teach me xc that the fellow using the lunge whip & demonstrating lamentable communication skills.
 
pip6 said:
I have done my stage 1 & would never do another (I passed both riding & sm by the way so no sour grapes). I do believe an exam system is necessary, but think the BHS is stuck in the 1920's. Firstly, if you don't do the BHS way you don't pass.
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This is not the case at all. Perhaps in the past there was an element of this but I can assure you there is no "BHS way" as long as what is being done is safe and candidates can justify their reasons they won't fail. At the end of the day the welfare of the horse and observance of safe procedures is what is required. A lot of people would be amazed at the answers given by some candidates and their safety awareness is, at times, truly shocking and yet these people are completely unaware of their shortcomings

Also when I did mine I rode at a very good (recommended training centre) stables. They told me that regular customers or people who pay to train there were given the best horses in the exams. Those they had never seen before got the ones who would make them look bad or would struggle to jump the height. Great exam system.
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As Katt says this is rubbish. The exam centres do make the riding groups up from the list of heights and weights they are given but the assessors allocate the horses on the day without input from the centre staff.

It must be remembered that stages 1 and 2 are at the bottom of the qualification ladder and therefore cover general horse care for which general rules tend to be applied. Discipline specific requirements would not be covered until further up the ladder by which time the candidates would be expected to work with less/no supervision e.g. at stage 4 the more specific care of an endurance horse would be covered. Perhaps people are expecting too much of these lower level qualifications which test candidates knowledge and skills to a level that would enable them to work in a supervised environment where there would be senior staff on hand to assist as necessary?

As I have said before the BHS is trying hard to bring the exam system up to date so for those that do not have recent experience of it please do not think it is stuck in the past. I know from personal experience how much it has changed in the 18 years I have been involved in examining, it is hard to change the ideas of some examiners who have been "in the system" for 40 years plus, I too have found some of them condescending and rude but that is just the way some of them are in everyday life, others are lovely under their tough exteriors! Hand on heart all the examiners in my area are genuinely working hard because they believe in the exam system and get so disheartened by the opinions sometimes voiced.
 
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