People who run down BHS exams have usually failed them themselves??????

[pip6]

Again, please do not rubbish what I say. Been there, seen it. I do hope it has now changed to make it fairer. Those are my experiences of dealing with the BHS, & the reason I would never join again. Nothing to do with exam results, purely attitude & responses I have been subjected to. A qualified instructor did specifically tell me to lie about how I would manage a shavings bed in order to give the 'correct' BHS response, I was warned that to do otherwise would jeapordize my passing. Now the level of truth in this is immaterial, what you have to combat more than anything is that this is the reputation of the BHS & it's exams built up from the experiences of its own candidates. I teach, I examine (in other subjects). I look for the rigth answer, but am very happy to have another answer if the justification is well reasoned & thought through. Maybe this is the feedback that examiners should be looking for from pupils, rather than whether they have memorised the text book or not. More to the point, they should be publisiing that they are looking for this & work to change public perception. Up until know their exams have been the only ones recognised, NVQ's, especially in coaching (as opposed to teaching) are gaining ground. If they stay with past attitudes for too long the future may just end up passing them by. The exams, I would say are a major part of their market/revenue. People belong to breed societies, or competative groups, or local bridleway groups etc, so they have limited need of the BHS. They need to keep ahead in the exams area as it is such a recognised sector in what they provide.

 

[siennamum]

I am suprised that people have such negative views towards the BHS exam system. I haven't a particularly high view of your average AI, but there is the general assumption that they are qualified instructors, which they aren't - they're assistant instructors. Any system is going to be open to criticism.
I read criticisms that I simply haven't found to be the case in reality. When I did my stage 3 care, my examiner asked what I would feed a show horse, I said the same as I would feed any competition horse, & said I thought show horses were generally too fat. the examiner said she absolutely agreed and that the set answer would be upgraded to reflect current thinking. When I hear people say they find examiners to be inflexible I find it at odds with my experiences which are that so long as you are safe & knowledgeable and can explain why you do things a certain way, it's acceptable -especially at stage 3 & above.

Things like removing water buckets when grooming, may be a bore, but you are setting the bar as high as you can in the exam situation. Understanding why you would do this is the key, not doing it every day.

 

[Doncella]

Have I told you about the manager at the local equine unit? A BHSI, when she was informed by a livery that there was ragwort in the hay said.
"Do what we do and shake it out, it's in every bale."

 

[oldhag]

Reminds me of the FBHS were I trained, when informed that her horse had nettle-rash replied, ''but she hasn't been anywhere near any nettles.''

My thoughts on the system are very negative.

 

[Kat]

I think whenever you do an exam in anything there is an element of doing things the correct way and giving the "best practice" answer even though the majority acknowledge that in reality that isn't what happens.

The driving test is a great example of this. How many people drive with their hands at ten to two all the time and feed the steering wheel through their hands to turn? Not many but that is what you are expected to do in an exam situation.

Even further in a police advanced driving course you would be expected to cross your hands on the wheel, you would on a rally driving course too, but the driving test is not about extreme conditions or performance driving it is about being safe in normal day to day conditions. The BHS stages are similar.

 

[Kat]

Again, please do not rubbish what I say. Been there, seen it. .

How long ago was this incident with the test centre allocating the horses?

Maybe things have changed?

It sounds to me like an exam centre craftily trying to encourage people to have lessons with them in fact whichever horse you are assigned it is easier if you have ridden them before so it makes sense to do some lessons at the exam centre anyway.

 

[ktxsuperstar41]

Thanks Bert the frog!

I will be so annoyed if i have failed, i have been riding since i was 6 and have been head groom for 2 good competition yards.

I was told that i was answering the questions too scientifically with too much detail...!
By the way who hoof picks in the field? I was always taught to bring the horse in and tie it up before doing this, (this was the question i think i failed on)

 

[EstherYoung]

Back in the day, I took my National Pony Society Stud exams instead of going the BHS route. They allowed you to re-take modules, so if the BHS are looking to do that too I think that will be better. I was much more relaxed in my exams knowing that any little bits I fluffed wouldn't mean I'd messed up everything. As it was I passed first time on all three stages.

The NPS also covered breeding in more depth, stallion handling, breaking and schooling. But no teaching, obviously. You also had to prove that you'd worked for a year on an approved stud before taking your '3' and the stud owner had to approve your application to take the exam. The stud owners did take their responsibilities seriously - I was grilled for an whole afternoon before she'd sign my form, and that was actually more scary than the exams. It's a shame the NPS don't run training & exams any more as they were very good.

My main 'issue' with how BHS exams are viewed is that in fact, the AI is the basic entry level qualification. Whilst a person with a good a-level in biology can be proud of their achievement in getting a good a-level, they are not yet a brain surgeon. As with the AI equivalent exam that I hold, the BHSAI gives you a good grounding but does not make you an expert - it makes you a safe assistant. Heck, I'm certainly no expert. Alongside exams I would also want to see a decent background of experience.

And as with other walks of life, just because someone has a lot of qualifications, it doesn't prevent them from being a tw*t. Some people do have the gift of the gab in high pressure situations, and they'll know what to say in exams and interviews, whereas the possibly more competent nervous person who doesn't like blowing their own trumpet screws up and doesn't sell themselves or their knowledge. But the fact that the odd numpty schmoozes their way through does not make the whole system wrong or make it any less to aspire to.

 

[competitiondiva]

I think it would be very good if we as a country had an exam system that people aspire to, unfortunately I do not believe the BHS system is that. My biggest problem is the 'excuses' sorry will not say reasons because I do not feel they meet the term correctly, for failures. things like 'oh I haven't brought my glasses with me' (from an examiner doing a verbal and written test (riding and road safety)!) and not folding into the jumping position before getting to the fence!! Bring the system into disrepute! Maybe as in anything there are a few examiners who fall short, and others will have nothing but good experiences from the better examiners?

 

[Kat]

I think it would be very good if we as a country had an exam system that people aspire to, unfortunately I do not believe the BHS system is that. My biggest problem is the 'excuses' sorry will not say reasons because I do not feel they meet the term correctly, for failures. things like 'oh I haven't brought my glasses with me' (from an examiner doing a verbal and written test (riding and road safety)!) and not folding into the jumping position before getting to the fence!! Bring the system into disrepute! Maybe as in anything there are a few examiners who fall short, and others will have nothing but good experiences from the better examiners?

I wonder how many of those 'excuses' are the actual reason people failed and how much is a bit of sour grapes and/or pride from people who thought they should pass trying to make it look like it wasn't their fault........

 

[competitiondiva]

I wonder how many of those 'excuses' are the actual reason people failed and how much is a bit of sour grapes and/or pride from people who thought they should pass trying to make it look like it wasn't their fault........

The excuses I quoted were actually from the examiners mouth!!!! But yes from the obsurdity of them you would have expected them to be made up!!! Like I said, maybe there are just a few poor examiners about that bring down the system overall??

 

[EventingMum]

Thanks Bert the frog!

I will be so annoyed if i have failed, i have been riding since i was 6 and have been head groom for 2 good competition yards.

I was told that i was answering the questions too scientifically with too much detail...!
By the way who hoof picks in the field? I was always taught to bring the horse in and tie it up before doing this, (this was the question i think i failed on)

I can categorically tell you that you will not fail on one question alone. If you look at the paperwork you received with your booking confirmation you should have an sheet which will explain the number of complusory and supporting units you must achieve in each section. However this is changing in the New Year when the new "modular" system begins.

 

[Zebedee]

Eventing Mum, how do BHS assessors feel about those 'fast tracked' through the stages?
My friend was approved by a FBHS & a BHSI (both BHS assessors themselves) as being competent enough to go straight in at stage 3. She is a lovely sympathetic balanced rider, with great empathy. She competes nationally BS, & has won several national championships.
When she arrived at the exam centre (not one local to her) she was early, & was shown in to the staff rest room & told to help herself to a hot drink if she wanted one. A short while later she heard the lady who'd shown her to the rest room greeting one of the assessors, & telling her that Miss xxxxxx had already arrived, to which the assessor replied 'Oh yes. The one who thinks she's too good to bother with 1 & 2.'
She was quite shaken by this, but once she started riding she forgot all about it & worked the horses she was given to ride. One girl couldn't get her first horse to canter on the correct lead going one way. My friend rode it next & it didn't strike off wrongly once.
At the end of the flatwork assessments my friend was astonished to be told that she wasn't good enough to continue to the jumping part. The other three candidates were equally surprised. Every horse she had ridden had improved for her, & the assessors comment when she queried their decision was 'Oh yes, you certainly know how to school a horses'.
Needless to say she has since gone down the line of becoming an accredited BS coach & won't be bothering with the BHS exams again.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

not quite - I was too tho to be fair, we are close to Staff College & their instructors earnt beer money to teach us on occasions. Phillip Wright was a scream to learn from!

I've done a little bit with BHS (only stage 4 & Intermediate Instructor ) but if asked over the years, would always prefer to have a PC B tester level person to look after my small yard on a rare occasion then a stage 1 or 2 - but this is JUST my opinion (and maybe cos I taught a number of them locally, so they were keen to show they could do this type of thing - and that was from the levels of experience required at THAT time)

Ms Piebald

Possibly the reason most people would prefer a B tester is that most would have had experience of looking after their own horses single handed whereas many stage 1 or 2's will not have had their own horses and may have worked and trained in a solely supervised environment and so may lack the confidence and initiative to work alone. I don't think the BHS would suggest that a stage 1 or 2 would be qualified for a sole charge position.

Point of etiquette - you missed the part (I have now highlighted on bold in the quote from my 1st post) - because I KNEW them & had taught them previously too.
They were also very conscientious & diligent in their attitude & work ethic.
I'd happily leave them for a couple of days - with phone contact available & also knowledgeable local persons to contact. I went off competing knowing I could come back to a tidy ordered yard, just as I would leave it.

Agree that a stage 1/2 should not be in charge of a yard, particularly when liabilities are explored.......

 

[EventingMum]

Zebedee: I am surprised at what your friend overheard tbh. I can only speak for myself and the assessors I work with and certainly have never heard of anyone feeling this way. I assume it must have been the chief assessor as the other assessors would not have any information on the candidates prior to the exam. This is one of the instances that I feel should have been relayed back to the exams office as it is certainly not what they would want to be happening. As I have said before, I can only speak for the assessors I work with and it appears from some stories I am lucky in the area I work in that we are a relatively small like minded group who all get on well and do on occasions shudder at stories we hear from other areas.

I have found the people involved in developing the exam system are very approachable and genuine in their desire to improve things. At my last assessor training day I did mention the bad feelings being voiced on this forum and I was listened to and told that this is something they wish to overcome. I think there is a growing tendency for people to measure competence purely in terms of competitive success and whilst it can certainly be a factor it should not be the be all and end all. I’m not for one minute implying this was the case with your friend especially as they were fully assessed prior to the exam but we have all seen dreadful riders achieving success on occasions. It has to be remembered that the stage exams are not a test of competition skills.

 

[EventingMum]

Point of etiquette - you missed the part (I have now highlighted on bold in the quote from my 1st post) - because I KNEW them & had taught them previously too.
They were also very conscientious & diligent in their attitude & work ethic.
I'd happily leave them for a couple of days - with phone contact available & also knowledgeable local persons to contact. I went off competing knowing I could come back to a tidy ordered yard, just as I would leave it.

Agree that a stage 1/2 should not be in charge of a yard, particularly when liabilities are explored.......

I apologise if I have offended you with my lack of etiquetteI was not disagreeing with you but merely adding my thoughts.

 

[Zebedee]

Zebedee: I am surprised at what your friend overheard tbh. I can only speak for myself and the assessors I work with and certainly have never heard of anyone feeling this way. I assume it must have been the chief assessor as the other assessors would not have any information on the candidates prior to the exam. This is one of the instances that I feel should have been relayed back to the exams office as it is certainly not what they would want to be happening. As I have said before, I can only speak for the assessors I work with and it appears from some stories I am lucky in the area I work in that we are a relatively small like minded group who all get on well and do on occasions shudder at stories we hear from other areas.

I have found the people involved in developing the exam system are very approachable and genuine in their desire to improve things. At my last assessor training day I did mention the bad feelings being voiced on this forum and I was listened to and told that this is something they wish to overcome. I think there is a growing tendency for people to measure competence purely in terms of competitive success and whilst it can certainly be a factor it should not be the be all and end all. I’m not for one minute implying this was the case with your friend especially as they were fully assessed prior to the exam but we have all seen dreadful riders achieving success on occasions. It has to be remembered that the stage exams are not a test of competition skills.

Thanks for such a detailed reply.
I agree that the stages are not a measure of competition skills - that's what the competitions themselves are after all, & we've all seen riders with what appear on the face of it to have dreadful technique do very well at quite high levels.
The other quite prevelant feeling though is that anyone who does complain is then on a hiding to nothing as they get a 'bad name' amongst the assessors.
I expect you'll find it as sad as I did that the comment from the fellow who assessed her as being competent for her to go straight to stage 3 was 'That was my only worry. That you would ride too well',when he heard she'd failed. He was also horrified that she hadn't been allowed to go forward to the jumping assessments.
Thanks again for taking the time to answer on here. I think people are finding your replies most informative as well as being very helpful.

 

[EventingMum]

Thanks for such a detailed reply.
I agree that the stages are not a measure of competition skills - that's what the competitions themselves are after all, & we've all seen riders with what appear on the face of it to have dreadful technique do very well at quite high levels.
The other quite prevelant feeling though is that anyone who does complain is then on a hiding to nothing as they get a 'bad name' amongst the assessors.
I expect you'll find it as sad as I did that the comment from the fellow who assessed her as being competent for her to go straight to stage 3 was 'That was my only worry. That you would ride too well',when he heard she'd failed. He was also horrified that she hadn't been allowed to go forward to the jumping assessments.
Thanks again for taking the time to answer on here. I think people are finding your replies most informative as well as being very helpful.

Thank you! I would like to say that as far as I know the only people who will have any knowledge of individual complaints apart from those investigating are the assessor concerned and the chief assessor from the exam in question so it is likely that at subsequent exams the majority of the examining team would be unaware of previous problems. Unfortunately due to problems in the past with abusive candidates or their supporters assessors are now made very aware that they should not enter into detailed discussions with candidates regarding their performance. This has unfortunately meant that candidates no longer receive a verbal de brief on the day which many have found helpful in the past but threats of physical violence obviously cannot be risked. At times I feel assessors are the equine equivalent of traffic wardens

 

[Mike007]

I have always rather doubted exams but have to say that recently I have had a certain amount of faith restored. I took a horse to a B test for someone to ride and watched the various riders through the different phases.They ALL made mistakes and if you simply listed these you would put them all in the same boat ,probably,fail. The difference was how the riders reacted to the problem. I subdivided the riders into two catagories,those I would trust with my horse and those I wouldnt. To my utter astonishment and pleasure, all those in my "potential pilots for Bob the cob",passed . To me this meant that the examiners were also looking at the same thing, effective forward riding and inteligent horsemanship. As for the young lad who I drove the horse there for. A bit hit and miss till the crosscountry ,(not his strong point) but once he relaxed into the strange horses stride (took him 3 fences,I hate young people)They had a great round , so much so that he forgot he was doing an exam and came straight back to us ,patting and praising the horse.Ahhem young man , you need to come to ME to be debreifed says examiner. But you could read it in the examiners eye already,that she understood that this kid respected the horse and was a true horseman.Passsed and welcome to ride Bob anyday.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I apologise if I have offended you with my lack of etiquetteI was not disagreeing with you but merely adding my thoughts.

No offence taken Mum

 

[Mistyrocks]

The problem with the BHS is that some people have the luck on the day and therefore after gaining the exams and become an AI therefore going out and teaching sometimes to a very poor level. However, we musn't tard every AI with the same brush, I am a AI and i have taught right from the beginning covering staff lessons when people off sick, gaining experience from competing affiatled and competing in instructors challenges. I have recently left the BHS riding school i worked/trained at to gain experience at a stud/producer yard before going to do my I. I think many people rush through the exams without gaining experience inbetween which is why there is weak AI's about.

 

[ktxsuperstar41]

In response to Honey

I completley agree with you I assumed that I was not giving enough information in my answers & therefore they were not sure, but when i extended my answers and used more scientific knowledge i was told that i was ianswering in too much detail

Just felt like what ever i said was not going to be right when the other candidates answers were very brief and in some cases incorrect.

Oh well we will see..

 

[miss_bird]

I not have much faith in the system of letting AI's teach at the end of the day they are assistant Instructors yet at some schools they are all that are employed.
I have 3 friends that all have their AI and have asked me for lessons, I have no teaching qualifications but many years of experience
I think too many people get their AI and feel that they have done enough, but it is only the start