Perplexed query about hat use

[Aperchristmas]

In general I have little time for those who don't wear hats because while it is their head, their choice, I just don't think it's fair on their loved ones or the emergency workers who have to scrape them up if it goes very wrong. We can't eliminate risk from any activity, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be sensible about risk.

However for period dramas, I don't have an issue. The horses are well trained and the risk is managed from that sense.

 

[Widgeon]

Im sorry... ?

HAHA

I do think Legolas would be a Le Mieux pompom kind of guy

 

[Wyatt1928]

Ok I accept the teasing. And I think Gandalf can look after himself, or tell the horse to do it. The interesting thing is that I was unaware of people riding without hats. And the question I wanted to ask here - i think it got tangled up in the period drama context - my question on the original (Austen) forum was about period dramas, but here it was do people routinely ride without hats? Yes, they do. It's not something I would ever choose to do, but I now know that it happens and seems to be regarded as quite normal. So i learned something. And just before I go, it is of course your choice to ride without a hat and your right to ignore me, but please do wear one.

 

[Wyatt1928]

also it is possible that the hobbits et al have bigger problems than falling off their ponies.

 

[ycbm]

If you take the world as a whole, then the UK is the one which is out of kilter on wearing riding hats.
.

 

[Winters100]

Ok I accept the teasing. And I think Gandalf can look after himself, or tell the horse to do it. The interesting thing is that I was unaware of people riding without hats. And the question I wanted to ask here - i think it got tangled up in the period drama context - my question on the original (Austen) forum was about period dramas, but here it was do people routinely ride without hats? Yes, they do. It's not something I would ever choose to do, but I now know that it happens and seems to be regarded as quite normal. So i learned something. And just before I go, it is of course your choice to ride without a hat and your right to ignore me, but please do wear one.

Well done for being a good sport and not getting huffy over the lighthearted remarks

In all seriousness though do remember that our lives are full of different risks, one of which is making ourselves sick from worry! I find that the best thing is to limit my worrying to things that I can do something about, after all, if you are watching the drama then the actor most likely survived

 

[teapot]

Also worth remembering that a lot of what's seen in films/tv series are actually done by body/stunt doubles, with the close up walking bits done by the actor/actress involved.

 

[criso]

If you take the world as a whole, then the UK is the one which is out of kilter on wearing riding hats.
.

That's what I was thinking.

I rode in Spain a few years ago, totally unplanned so rode in jeans, sturdy shoes and no hat. It was not an area that British tourists go to and hats weren't considered for my guide or me.


Worth pointing out too that period dramas, even those set in England are not necessarily shot in England. Sometimes if you look at the credits, the names of the crew gives you and idea of where they are filmed.

 

[Gloi]

When I was young I only wore my hat , with elastic under chin, for shows and riding school lessons where I also wore it when the instructor gave me a lift partway home on the back of her motorbike.

 

[Red-1]

Im sorry... ?

Haha, I really wanted to do that with various characters but lacked the skill.

 

[teapot]

Just been reminded given @Red-1's post - I'm fairly sure you could probably edit out a hat during post production editing these days too? HBO would certainly have the money and skill to do so.

 

[Cortez]

I've ridden almost 60 years without a riding helmet/hat, other than when required for competition. Still here, still not damaged in that area. As others have said, it's not the norm to wear one in most other countries, and certainly not on film sets*
British people do seem to get all worked up about it, but I've no intention of taking up hat wearing.

*it would be extremely difficult and certainly not cost effective to cgi hats out of film footage.

 

[Wyatt1928]

oh now i want to try (to cgi them out) just to see if I can.

 

[teapot]

I've ridden almost 60 years without a riding helmet/hat, other than when required for competition. Still here, still not damaged in that area. As others have said, it's not the norm to wear one in most other countries, and certainly not on film sets*
British people do seem to get all worked up about it, but I've no intention of taking up hat wearing.

*it would be extremely difficult and certainly not cost effective to cgi hats out of film footage.

It would depend on budget surely? You can edit stuff out of video in the same way you do photos, even at a basic level with decent software. The HBOs, Netflix, and BBCs of this world would have the staff and skill to do so. Some of the LOTR films horse scenes are CGI.

 

[Winters100]

It would depend on budget surely? You can edit stuff out of video in the same way you do photos, even at a basic level with decent software. The HBOs, Netflix, and BBCs of this world would have the staff and skill to do so. Some of the LOTR films horse scenes are CGI.

Cortez is not saying that it is impossible, simply that the cost would not be worthwhile. I do not hear of many head injuries sustained by riders on film sets, so I would assume that it is not a big issue.

 

[Starzaan]

I find this really interesting, potentially because for years I worked for people who didn’t wear hats, and worked abroad where it would have been considered very odd if I was wearing a hat.
I do often ride without a hat. There are some horses I wouldn’t ride without a hat, it’s a calculated risk. I rode professionally for a long time and learnt how to calculate the risks for myself. I think we need to be aware of how different we all are. I may ride without a hat often, but I also will never ever get behind the wheel of a car within 24hrs of having one drink. I don’t drink often, and am a dreadful lightweight. I could be WAY under the legal limit to drive, and I would be lethal. It’s all relative.

I recently had a strange encounter with someone and it really made me think. I was watching a client school their horse and they were having a total nightmare. She asked me to get on, and so I did. I didn’t have a hat with me, but I was happy to jump on. I had ridden the horse a lot, and knew her well. We ironed out the problem and she ended up going really well - owner got back on and finished with a smile. Afterwards, someone came over and absolutely berated me. I was so shocked. She said ‘you would be livid if you saw someone riding without a hat!’ And I had to honestly say to her that no, I really wouldn’t. Some of the best riders I know don’t wear hats. If I had suggested to my boss in Africa that I wear a hat I would have been laughed off the farm.
It really is up to the individual. I am much safer riding without a hat than I am driving after a sip of wine. I am also aware that there are people who would be incredibly unsafe riding without a hat, but could drink two pints and still be safe to drive.
I don’t see why I should care what other people do with their heads. It’s not up to me, and none of my business. I knew a lovely woman who dropped dead at the age of 41. She had never smoked, didn’t drink, and was so incredibly healthy. She just happened to have an enormous heart attack and dropped dead one day. After that, my boss at the time said ‘I’m living the rest of my life as I see fit. It can happen any time, to anyone’.
I had my most serious horsey accident on the floor, and if I had been wearing a hat, my injuries would have been exactly the same. Stuff can happen any time, and it’s up to the individual to calculate the risk.

 

[Winters100]

When I was young I only wore my hat , with elastic under chin, for shows and riding school lessons where I also wore it when the instructor gave me a lift partway home on the back of her motorbike.

Good point. I remember wearing mine without a strap at all for showing classes in the 80'. For WHP my Mother insisted that I used the strap, but was quite happy for it to be at the back under my hair, rather than under my chin.

 

[Bob notacob]

Don't kid yourselves about the effectiveness of hats . The hat manufacturers designed the tests to suit their hats. The polystyrene lining inside ,has damn all give in it . Wonderful if you fall onto a rock but bugger all use if you hit a fence hard and lawn dart into the ground.The old hats with a nylon cradle inside gave far better protection from these falls. The stretch in the nylon gave slower deceleration and hence less spinal compression and nerve crush.

 

[BBP]

also it is possible that the hobbits et al have bigger problems than falling off their ponies.

To be fair, one of the hobbits did repeatedly get ditched off his pony, who didn’t believe he should hang a left and into camp and kept bogging off the other way, to the point where the scene got cut, so he might have appreciated a hat! As might one of the riders of Rohan who got a tree branch to the skull and bled all over their very expensive fake beard!

I worked as a trail guide out in NZ with a bunch of the horsey and human extras in the movie, and was mocked for being the only guide to wear a crash hat. Until my young horse spooked, took off and fell on the road at high speed and when I got up my hat looked like a cheese grater had been taken to it, right down to the foam. They quit teasing me after that! I also came off head first straight onto a rock at 25mph and was pretty glad to have had it on when I saw the hole that was punched in the shell.

 

[Cortez]

Don't kid yourselves about the effectiveness of hats . The hat manufacturers designed the tests to suit their hats. The polystyrene lining inside ,has damn all give in it . Wonderful if you fall onto a rock but bugger all use if you hit a fence hard and lawn dart into the ground.The old hats with a nylon cradle inside gave far better protection from these falls. The stretch in the nylon gave slower deceleration and hence less spinal compression and nerve crush.

That’s interesting, thank you. Some earlier iterations of “safety” riding headgear, hats were made of cardboard and of very nearly no use whatsoever. Obviously if you’re likely to fall off on your head, wear a helmet. I’ve never landed on my head, rarely fell off and like Starzaan make my own assessments. Hey: it worked, I’m not dead!

 

[teapot]

Don't kid yourselves about the effectiveness of hats . The hat manufacturers designed the tests to suit their hats. The polystyrene lining inside ,has damn all give in it . Wonderful if you fall onto a rock but bugger all use if you hit a fence hard and lawn dart into the ground.The old hats with a nylon cradle inside gave far better protection from these falls. The stretch in the nylon gave slower deceleration and hence less spinal compression and nerve crush.

Which is probably why MIPS hats are starting to become more popular.

 

[Lady Jane]

I don't care what the rest of the world do, whether we are out of kilter, and everyone can do as they like, but I can't recall the last time I saw someone riding without a hat 'in real life' ie not a picture. Maybe it because I see people who have to ride on the roads? I do wear a hat myself but can only remember one occassion when it definitely saved my head (horse fell on road) - may have saved me other times I can't say. And 30 years ago I hardly wore one except when it was cold

 

[Bob notacob]

I wear the modern hats ,but only because i can no longer buy the old style racing scull caps . Its a shame because they were far better. For one thing . The increase in thickness of the cap goes directly against the research (way back in the late 70,s) that this increase added to neck injuries due to a leverage effect whilst gliding /scraping along the ground with the helmet in contact with the ground. In my opinion , the only reason for the change in design was thatbthe old hats needed experienced fitters.

 

[criso]

It would depend on budget surely? You can edit stuff out of video in the same way you do photos, even at a basic level with decent software. The HBOs, Netflix, and BBCs of this world would have the staff and skill to do so. Some of the LOTR films horse scenes are CGI.

None of those companies will have staff that does that sort of stuff in house. They will work with production companies who source the skills, people and facilities needed through all stages of production. The effects will be done at one of the specialist post production houses, there's a few big ones in London that work on films and TV dramas. It's expensive, specialist and time consuming. I've worked with software managing the bookings and seen the rate cards.

LOTR did CGI some scenes but they also did as much as they could with real people, models and miniatures, they only used CGI where there was no alternative and still spent a year in post for each film.

 

[Lois Lame]

Reading this thread reminds me that my husband told me that if we all wore protective headgear when driving a car, we'd be a lot safer.

It makes sense, but I rarely have done this. (I do remember doing it once, on my way to the paddock. I must have been feeling a little vulnerable at the time.)

Believe it or not, I feel more angst when I see people leaving their valuable gear laying around than I do when seeing someone ride a horse without a hat.

 

[scats]

I care too much about my family, who would be the ones left picking up the pieces and having to care for me, to not wear a hat when riding.
As a teenager the fashion was to have your chin strap clipped round the back of your hat, which I did when riding at home or hacking. Daft really, but it was very much about being ‘cool’ for me at that age. That said, I had a pony that I trusted with my life so I suppose it was a calculated risk. Still silly though.

People may mock the British for their hat wearing, but having had a head injury this year that lead to post concussive syndrome, of which I’m still suffering with vision problems, I dread to think what might have happened if I hadn’t been wearing a hat.

 

[Cortez]

I care too much about my family, who would be the ones left picking up the pieces and having to care for me, to not wear a hat when riding.
As a teenager the fashion was to have your chin strap clipped round the back of your hat, which I did when riding at home or hacking. Daft really, but it was very much about being ‘cool’ for me at that age. That said, I had a pony that I trusted with my life so I suppose it was a calculated risk. Still silly though.

People may mock the British for their hat wearing, but having had a head injury this year that lead to post concussive syndrome, of which I’m still suffering with vision problems, I dread to think what might have happened if I hadn’t been wearing a hat.

The old “but think of the family” trope gets trotted out again, but that’s going to be the the same with whatever happens to you, surely? Ditto with “it’d have been so much worse if I didn’t wear a hat!”. I know of two people who died because of wearing hats - one of whom never normally wore one: she broke her neck because of the peak.

Wear hats if it makes you feel better, I prefer to ride hatless unless the situation warrants taking extra precautions. Over the last 25 or so years that has been never, and the vast majority of the people I work with are of the same opinion. I work in the film industry mostly.

 

[scats]

The old “but think of the family” trope gets trotted out again, but that’s going to be the the same with whatever happens to you, surely? Ditto with “it’d have been so much worse if I didn’t wear a hat!”. I know of two people who died because of wearing hats - one of whom never normally wore one: she broke her neck because of the peak.

Wear hats if it makes you feel better, I prefer to ride hatless unless the situation warrants taking extra precautions. Over the last 25 or so years that has been never, and the vast majority of the people I work with are of the same opinion. I work in the film industry mostly.

But if I can take precautions to protect myself and possibly reduce my chances of a devastating brain injury, why wouldn’t I? I don’t think your two people who have died wearing hats is really a good enough reason to discount hats altogether, as I imagine that hats have saved far more lives than they have lost.
You do you, but Im perfectly entitled to want to think of the impact of my family having to deal with me dribbling in a chair if I were to suffer from a serious brain injury as a result of my hobby.

 

[smolmaus]

For it to be "calculated risk" there would need to be a significant benefit to not wearing a hat, to outweigh the risk reduction in wearing one. Considering wearing a helmet is pretty easy, it would need to be a very significant benefit, far beyond "I don't feel like it".

There is definitely a cultural thing like, some people will absolutely drive home after drinking, or not wear a seat belt or not wear hi vis when running/cycling on roads and think nothing of it but I am still allowed to think its bloody stupid. If all your friends jumped of a cliff etc etc

Wear hats if it makes you feel better, I prefer to ride hatless unless the situation warrants taking extra precautions. Over the last 25 or so years that has been never, and the vast majority of the people I work with are of the same opinion. I work in the film industry mostly.

Would you say that construction workers also should be allowed to not wear hats when they're on site? If it is personal choice and they can make their own calculated risk assessments? 50 years ago many a builder laughed at regulations saying they couldn't actually calculate their own risks and had to wear one. Some still do! Imagine being told as an adult that you aren't actually capable of accurately predicting when you might need head protection! Or a face mask when working with asbestos, or ear protection, or steel toe boots. You still catch people on site not being bothered with some or all of the above but you can't argue with the fatality rate being 20% of what it was.

 

[Winters100]

I don't think that anyone is saying that others should not wear a hat, simply that it is personal choice. If we are going to be saying that we must do so for the sake of our families then to be honest we probably should not be riding at all, or for that matter doing any risky activities. Speaking personally I do wear a hat, but I do not care whether others do or not. For those who would like to see livery yards enforcing a rule about hats where does that end? Would you then be happy is a very risk averse yard owner made rules that hats must be worn at all times when handling horses? What about air vests and safety stirrups?

Construction sites are a different matter since the developer or contractor is responsible for accidents on site, if I fall from my horse I am the only one responsible.