person charged with murder

[Springs]

last turnip,

It's about time you just buggerd off and started doing something worth while, I bet you're the type that promotes animal welfare but enjoys a good steak!

Odd that you hide behind your key board and only logged on when this incident started to make some news!

For the record I take my horses hunting as it is good training for them, it helps them to go forward, I can normally be found at the back of the field enjoying the day and the company and hip flask with those around me. I have only ever seen one fox come to harm, lots of chasing but rarely caught anything! seen loads of fox's etc.

Are you sure that your not just getting off having a go and all the rush of been a sab? In fact if i consider your actions, no better that a foot ball thug!

 

[Scratchline]

post script- definition of a saboteur is someone who partakes in sabotage which is a deliberate action aimed at weakening an opponent through obstruction, disruption and/or destruction. not a very pleasant "handle" to bear, is it!!

And the definition of killer is...........?

 

[Scratchline]

last turnip, What a well thought out name change lol lol

It's about time you just buggerd off and started doing something worth while, I bet you're the type that promotes animal welfare but enjoys a good steak!

This is a public forum and my guess is you dont know anything about lastrebels lifestyle so why just attack them?!

Odd that you hide behind your key board and only logged on when this incident started to make some news!

You are posting/hiding behind your keybaord but not yet on topic!

For the record I take my horses hunting as it is good training for them, it helps them to go forward, I can normally be found at the back of the field enjoying the day and the company and hip flask with those around me. I have only ever seen one fox come to harm, lots of chasing but rarely caught anything! seen loads of fox's etc.

So you are unable to think of a way to excercise your animal without your little friends? How about someone with their uncontrolled doggies chases you and your little pony for miles and miles then lets you both escape at the end of the little jaunt. A bit of fear will make you and pippa the pony work even harder if in fear of losing your life My guess is, you would soon change your mind.

Are you sure that your not just getting off having a go and all the rush of been a sab? In fact if i consider your actions, no better that a foot ball thug!

Are YOU not having a go at someone YOU believe to be a sab and ignoring the topic because hunting is banned, rightly so and you dont like it?!

 

[Springs]

yes scratchline it is a forum and everyone has their own opinion. Hunting is for training you have to excercise your horse before you hunt it.

Pippa and I frequently get chased by dogs and Pippa loves it I can tell this by the way she shakes with excitement and poos a lot!

 

[lastrebel]

I was being Ironic

 

[lastrebel]

yes I do enjoy a good steak, but I dont dress up like a twat and get off on killing it.

 

[YorksG]

Can anyone explain to me the relevance of the clothing worn, in terms of why that of itsef makes hunting a bad thing ?

 

[spaniel]

yes I do enjoy a good steak, but I dont dress up like a twat and get off on killing it.

The bitterness and hatred shown in your posts proves to me that you have no concern at all with animal welfare......we are back to class war here when there is no war to fight.

 

[lastrebel]

yes I can, lets say someone goes out drinkdriving, this is bad.
If someone goes out drink driving dresses like a clown ignores any drink driving laws gets upperty when people dont like it and post on the internet about how clever it is and then try to apply political pressure to have the drink driving laws changed then that's a lot worse and can get people angry.
hope this helps.

 

[lastrebel]

I take it you presume I'm working class as I dont like hunting.
a lot of hunt supporters are working class.
I have a HND and a skiiled job I think that makes me middle class nowadays.(lol)
Anyway, no nothing to do with class.

 

[majicmoment]

yes I do enjoy a good steak, but I dont dress up like a twat and get off on killing it.

So its about class now....nothing to do with animal welfare?

Congratulations, you have just admitted the Act has nothing to do with Animal Welfare, and everything to do with deep routed prejudice and hatred. Which is why the Act is a ill thought out piece of legeslation and does nothing for Animal Welfare.

NO FOXES HAVE BEEN SAVED AS A RESULT OF THE HUNTING ACT.

Welcome to the 'other side'

REPEAL is the only way.....

Enjoy your steak. I suppose its OK if you didnt kill it....the animal didnt suffer in any way, did it?

Course not.

:grin:

 

[majicmoment]

ps, can I add, that my parents are through and through cockney Londoners. They are grafters, grew up in proper London estates, and worked hard to move out to the country.

The main thing, they say, having worked hard to get where they are, is the work ethic of pretty much everyone in the countryside is the same - down to earth , hard working grafters, committed to community and passionate about who they are and what they do.

What you do, or have, does not distinguish 'class' per say, my parents are sucessful and are fortunate to have London, Coastal and Country properties, my father is at the top of his trade, however if you asked him, he is working class - not middle.

Similarly, I dated a Baron (LOL!!!) who shunned the life he inherited and is now a carpenter, however retains his title - even though he has a traide - you would never know his background. Whats he? A toff? I dont think so.

I wish everything was so black and white in my world....

Simples :grin:

 

[combat_claire]

yes I can, lets say someone goes out drinkdriving, this is bad.
If someone goes out drink driving dresses like a clown ignores any drink driving laws gets upperty when people dont like it and post on the internet about how clever it is and then try to apply political pressure to have the drink driving laws changed then that's a lot worse and can get people angry.
hope this helps.

But the crux is that despite 4 years of effort there has still only been one conviction for illegal hunting with hounds, which rather suggests that hunts are staying within the law. Lets face it 30 hounds accompanied by 100 people on horseback dressed as you put it 'like twats' with more people following them in cars are a bit hard to hide...

Just look back over Hansard and see some of the comments made by parliamentarians during the 700 hours spent on the political debate, and you can see the spite and prejudice with which the Hunting Act was passed. Is it any wonder that those who are involved with hunting or who depend on it for their trade were so angry and are consequently fighting for repeal.

 

[combat_claire]

Simples :grin:

comparethemeerkat.com...... :grin:

 

[lastrebel]

Claire

putting our differences aside for a moment.
I agree the hunting act in its present form is no use to man nor beast (excuse the pun).
However as far livelihoods go and I dont know any figures but from what I have seen since the ban more people are hunting.
I would take a guess these people are those who didnt want to be involved in chasing foxes but now feel drag hunting is acceptable.
This is a positive for anyone involved in the hunting industry. could it not be possible that a repeal of the ban would mean some of these people would no longer hunt.
Therfore jobs could really be lost.
From what I have seen and its not much over the last 4 years and only concerns two particular Hunt, foxes are still being chased and killed and not by accident or chance but by design.
For example why are terrirer men still following hunts.
The truth is the ban has not really changed anything and if like a lot of posters say the 'Kill' is not important why is there such an uproar over it.

 

[Scratchline]

However as far livelihoods go and I dont know any figures but from what I have seen since the ban more people are hunting.
I would take a guess these people are those who didnt want to be involved in chasing foxes but now feel drag hunting is acceptable.
This is a positive for anyone involved in the hunting industry. could it not be possible that a repeal of the ban would mean some of these people would no longer hunt.
Therfore jobs could really be lost.

Couldnt agree with you more ) Those that purely want a return to a situation were foxes are chased and chased, running for their lives ( not fun or "sport"), are simply deluded, cruel and completely out of touch with humanity! They want the kill, they hope for the kill. It has absolutely nothing to do with pest control and everything to do with the fun of the chase. That is not right, not humane and is the very reason hunting was banned and will never be allowed to return.

They should forget that. It has gone and rightly so.

Go out and enjoy your horses and your hounds if that is what people want. It is without a doubt great fun and a fabulous spectacle but do so legally. If not it turns the stomach of most people, it becomes a blood sport. No better than dog or cock fighting. Bear and badger baiting. It produces only victims, no winners and mans selfish hand covered in blood!

Chasing a terrified animal, running for its life is why the people of this country do not want fox hunting allowed. It is certainly not town against countryside. Many people hunt for the pot. Many kill for the necessary pest control and I do both. However what they and I do not do is terrify an animal, run it to exhaustion and then slaughter it in some macabe, pathetic show of our supposed strength and skill!

Hunting as it was has no place in our beautiful countryside or in the hands of of countryfolk. It is a cruel reminder of our past ignorance and should stay well and truely in the past.

 

[Hebegebe]

I disagree.

The law now requires them to be shot staright away. But why is trhis better. It means healthy and sick foxes all get killed.

The chase meant that statistically the healthier foxes were more likely to survive.

Hunting is about all sorts of things. One is wildlife management.

I use my dogs to manage the wildlife on my farm. It may be illegal but that won't stop me. The police know the law is absurd and refuise to enforce it. Quite right too.

My methods are welfare friendly and non lethal. So it is not all about killing as you say it is.

 

[lastrebel]

Sorry hebegebe I'm confused

Quote {I use my dogs to manage the wildlife on my farm. It may be illegal but that won't stop me. The police know the law is absurd and refuise to enforce it. Quite right too.}
is that really what you want to say, please think about it and maybe rewrite.

How are your methods non lethal and friendly ? how does this fit in with the above.

BTW I agree with your comments on sick and healthy foxes however when they run cover, as you and I would if being chased, they are dug out and thrown to the pack healty or not.
So the wilflife management arguement goes out the window I'm afraid and it does go back to the killing.

 

[the watcher]

lastrebel

the problem, as I see it, as that you, and others, are inclined to believe that everybody who has ever hunted is motivated solely by blood lust. This simply isn't true and is hugely offensive and insulting to the vast majority of people who ride to hounds or simply follow or support them.

 

[Scratchline]

lastrebel

the problem, as I see it, as that you, and others, are inclined to believe that everybody who has ever hunted is motivated solely by blood lust. This simply isn't true and is hugely offensive and insulting to the vast majority of people who ride to hounds or simply follow or support them.

Like a man who goes to dog fights because he enjoys betting?

 

[Scratchline]

Are healthy foxes not the greatest threat to landowners as hunters of their livestock now and throughout the foxes life. The only reason there is to class them as a pest and therefore need to kill them in the first place?

 

[the watcher]

'Like a man who goes to dog fights because he enjoys betting? '

Dog fighting never had any purpose other than 'entertainment', and of course the betting was a large part of it. Hunting has always had an equal purpose in vermin control and countryside management.

 

[Hebegebe]

Are healthy foxes not the greatest threat to landowners as hunters of their livestock now and throughout the foxes life. The only reason there is to class them as a pest and therefore need to kill them in the first place?

In my opinion no. Unhealthy foxes are more likely to go for easier to catch but higher risk prey.

Also they spread disease which is a major problem.

Furthermore and you may find this hard to understand but a lot of landowners ally their interest with the general health and well being of the countryside.

Why do you think landowners do a lot of conservation work.

Personally I want healthy floiurishing and diverse wildlife where i live. I don't want my surroundings to be a desert.

As I tried to explain hunting is about lots of things for lots of people.

 

[Hebegebe]

I have beef cattle and hence a massive interest in healthy wildlife.

If you allow mid range predators like foxes and badgers to multiply until there populations are only limited by starvation and disease then you will have problems.

The same goes for deer. They should not be allowed to multiply until they exhaust resources and sick deer should be culled.

If you see a deer near death from lungworm and TB you will know what I mean.

Hunting with dogs compliments control by shooting as the dogs easily track down and kill wounded animals.

This dawned on me a bout ten years ago when I came across a fox with it's leg hanging off having been shot.

The hunt came out, found and killed it very quickly.

Dogs are much much better at locating wild animals than people are.

 

[lastrebel]

yes mother hen like Holocaust denial I guess

 

[Scratchline]

Dog fighting never had any purpose other than 'entertainment', and of course the betting was a large part of it.

To be fair I think that shows a lack of understanding about dog fighting but of course that is not what we are talking about.

My point was clearly about those that take part in an activity at various levels. None can seperate themselves from the actual event with any honesty and if it involves cruelty all are culprable.

 

[Scratchline]

Sorry, very interesting posts which I will reply to. It is good to read the opinion of others very much at the heart of these issues ( without all the added 'aggro'), ) But the rugby is calling me lol

 

[the watcher]

If you have any interest in an adult debate, then equating those who have any connection with hunting (even from the greatest distance) with Holocaust denial or engaging in country activies purely out of blood lust is not going to either win you friends or influence people.

Just as I am not ill mannered or intolerant enough to assume that every person who objects to hunting is an ignorant bunny hugger and understand that many would find the concept distasteful or even repugnant. In fact I can completely understand a position of not supporting hunting in any way - there are aspects of it that I would not support.

However, if your presence on this site is simply to hurl insults at people who happen not to agree with you, you will find, ultimately, that you are talking to yourself.

 

[Hebegebe]

Moreover if the H&H article this week is right and the Thames Valley Police were colluding with the gyrocopter killers then there will be merry hell for them to pay.

If this was happening in the inner cities there would be riots on the streets by now.

The simple truth is that the reason that the Warwickshire hunt have not been prosecuted despite constant surveillance by these idiot sab/monitors is that they were not breaking the law and the police may have broken a cardinal policing rule by taking the side of one part of the community against another.

 

[lastrebel]

hebegebe I can assure you when hunting was legal the police always sided with you.