Who are the people on here who are on facebook? I'm Victoria nice to meet you all, it appears that the 'antis' are all in school 
Petition to ban horse slaughter in the UK.
- Thread starter navaho
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AndySpooner
Well-Known Member
I'm at a bit of a loss here to understand what exactly people want to do with horses that are unwanted.
Are we proposing to ban all horses being dispatched in a slaughter house and the use of their carcass in the animal or human food chain? Is this being confused with horses being PTS through age or illness?
Are horses different to other animals that end up in the food chain because they have been 'pets'. What about the TB's that are not going to make it in the racing industry, that cannot be found other homes, they are not and never have been 'pets'.
There are not enough horse charities to cope with the annual amount of horses needing re homing, and are these places really effective.
Surely it is better for these unwanted horses to be killed in UK slaughterhouses rather than exported live, as just the racing industry produce more horses than can be properly kept.
I would have thought that a nation which likes to think of itself as animal lovers would want to stop the live export of all animals for slaughter as too cruel. The most effective way to transport animals is in freezer wagons, dead of course, which would mean the increase of local slaughterhouses, many of which were closed through EEC regulations some years ago, to negate the need to transport animals long distances within the UK, let alone abroad.
Banning horse slaughter in the UK cannot be a serious argument.
Are we proposing to ban all horses being dispatched in a slaughter house and the use of their carcass in the animal or human food chain? Is this being confused with horses being PTS through age or illness?
Are horses different to other animals that end up in the food chain because they have been 'pets'. What about the TB's that are not going to make it in the racing industry, that cannot be found other homes, they are not and never have been 'pets'.
There are not enough horse charities to cope with the annual amount of horses needing re homing, and are these places really effective.
Surely it is better for these unwanted horses to be killed in UK slaughterhouses rather than exported live, as just the racing industry produce more horses than can be properly kept.
I would have thought that a nation which likes to think of itself as animal lovers would want to stop the live export of all animals for slaughter as too cruel. The most effective way to transport animals is in freezer wagons, dead of course, which would mean the increase of local slaughterhouses, many of which were closed through EEC regulations some years ago, to negate the need to transport animals long distances within the UK, let alone abroad.
Banning horse slaughter in the UK cannot be a serious argument.
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Lady La La
Well-Known Member
Who are the people on here who are on facebook? I'm Victoria nice to meet you all, it appears that the 'antis' are all in school
Im jenny *waves*
brighteyes
Pooh-Bah
'Slaughter' is necessary because a) not every horse is able to live a useful or even comfortable life and b) when a useful and comfortable life is over...then what?
I actually think the private and humane destruction we call PTS at 'home' is slaughter by another name but is no less kind or harsh than that carried out by licensed slaughterers like Turners and Potters, or the hunt. It's arguable that the last trip might be unnecessarily stressful, but it's pretty much certain it won't be as bad as being hauled halfway across Europe, to end your life in an Italian (or worse) meat factory.
Overbreeding HAS to be addressed - that's the first step to freeing the burden of the welfare organisations in sorting out the neglect and cruelty to unwanted equines.
That the wild moorland ponies need to breed in such numbers that they produce a surfeit of foals because they need to keep the moorland 'nice' is questionable, and a whole other story.
But the fact remains that until people with mares (and that includes probably most of those in the Breeding Forum who will vociferously defend their reasons and motives behind this years crop and the many 'which stallion' posts) take a year or more out of the scene and reduce the numbers bred drastically, the job for people who can take the rubbish out of the equation will remain. It will be there afterwards, but the demand for their services will be reduced.
Do we need slaughter houses? Yes, sadly, for many reasons we do. I have no objections to the humane and timely disposal of any creature at all, nor of the use of the remains after. It's just not for me - I'm a pts at home then bury person and when I no longer can do this, I will stop keeping horses. And I won't ever breed them, either.
Listen to the chap at the end of this* programme. The pony population would be safe in his hands.
Do not get me started on the racehorse industry. For me, that's possibly a worse offender with its deliberate and wholly greed motivated breeding, unutterably awful 'wastage' and too often irresponsible disposal of the failed and broken.
*Warning, the uncensored shooting by captive bolt of a Dartmoor pony, under controlled and 'empathetic' conditions, is at the beginning of the broadcast but ample time is given for you to turn the sound down and unsurprisingly, the reporter is unable to deal with more than one experience, so give it about 15 seconds.
I actually think the private and humane destruction we call PTS at 'home' is slaughter by another name but is no less kind or harsh than that carried out by licensed slaughterers like Turners and Potters, or the hunt. It's arguable that the last trip might be unnecessarily stressful, but it's pretty much certain it won't be as bad as being hauled halfway across Europe, to end your life in an Italian (or worse) meat factory.
Overbreeding HAS to be addressed - that's the first step to freeing the burden of the welfare organisations in sorting out the neglect and cruelty to unwanted equines.
That the wild moorland ponies need to breed in such numbers that they produce a surfeit of foals because they need to keep the moorland 'nice' is questionable, and a whole other story.
But the fact remains that until people with mares (and that includes probably most of those in the Breeding Forum who will vociferously defend their reasons and motives behind this years crop and the many 'which stallion' posts) take a year or more out of the scene and reduce the numbers bred drastically, the job for people who can take the rubbish out of the equation will remain. It will be there afterwards, but the demand for their services will be reduced.
Do we need slaughter houses? Yes, sadly, for many reasons we do. I have no objections to the humane and timely disposal of any creature at all, nor of the use of the remains after. It's just not for me - I'm a pts at home then bury person and when I no longer can do this, I will stop keeping horses. And I won't ever breed them, either.
Listen to the chap at the end of this* programme. The pony population would be safe in his hands.
Do not get me started on the racehorse industry. For me, that's possibly a worse offender with its deliberate and wholly greed motivated breeding, unutterably awful 'wastage' and too often irresponsible disposal of the failed and broken.
*Warning, the uncensored shooting by captive bolt of a Dartmoor pony, under controlled and 'empathetic' conditions, is at the beginning of the broadcast but ample time is given for you to turn the sound down and unsurprisingly, the reporter is unable to deal with more than one experience, so give it about 15 seconds.
friesian80
Well-Known Member
I know most on this thread totally disagree with me but perhaps some of the things ive said are worth thinking about????? I dont haow thve all the answers to how we can stop overbreeding in the UK but surely to increase the slaughterhoses isnt the answer.
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sprytzer
Well-Known Member
And i am TIA ....hello all
Changes
Well-Known Member
I hardly know where to start....... 
What in your world would you have them do? I'd rather see them go straight to slaughter.
See, here's the root of the problem. This is not about YOU, or YOUR feelings, it's about facing the very real overcrowding problems currently faced by the UK herd.
As for the attack on the racing industry - making wild accusations hardly helps your argument. The max price for a fully grown racehorse at an abattoir will be no more than £450. Do you really think the industry profits for each horse at that price? That won't even cover stud fees for most of them, never mind keep and nutrition and all the other costs associated with raising foals.
Why do you think that? All the slaughterhouses do is mop up the unwanted. Maybe how SOME of the p i k e y s raise horses would make money, but mostly those profiting are the dealers who buy from selfish people who won't make the decision to have their own horses euthanased.
You really need to get your facts straight before you start flinging accusations about.
1. It is NOT illegal to export horses for slaughter.
2. It's not the racing industry than transports horses abroad for slaughter, it's the scumbag dealers.
I wonder why you are so convinced that it is only racehorses that go for slaughter? A study done in the US found that 70% of the horses sent for slaughter were riding horses.
No, you haven't a clue what you are arguing, and you are not seeing the bigger picture. Whilst I agree wholeheartedly about the overbreeding, it is across the board, not confined to racing.
Horses are a leisure industry now, and as such tend to be passed around far more than they used to be. That however, is a whole new thread in itself.
Whilst horses are treated as currency and status, they will ultimately become unwanted at some stage in their lives. With the costs of euthanasia and disposal escalating, the abattoir is a very real need.
You are doing horses such a huge disservice by refusing to accept that.
Some people can't afford to put a horse down. Frequently, these 'lovely caring owners' sell their older horses on to dealers, to get rid of them, therefore putting the horse through the misery of unknown places, people, and likely a great deal less care than they are used to receiving because they've suddenly become a commodity. And if they're lucky they go to Potters or Turners quite quickly, and not doing the rounds of the markets first, or getting shipped abroad.
What in your world would you have them do? I'd rather see them go straight to slaughter.
See, here's the root of the problem. This is not about YOU, or YOUR feelings, it's about facing the very real overcrowding problems currently faced by the UK herd.
As for the attack on the racing industry - making wild accusations hardly helps your argument. The max price for a fully grown racehorse at an abattoir will be no more than £450. Do you really think the industry profits for each horse at that price? That won't even cover stud fees for most of them, never mind keep and nutrition and all the other costs associated with raising foals.
Why do you think that? All the slaughterhouses do is mop up the unwanted. Maybe how SOME of the p i k e y s raise horses would make money, but mostly those profiting are the dealers who buy from selfish people who won't make the decision to have their own horses euthanased.
You really need to get your facts straight before you start flinging accusations about.
1. It is NOT illegal to export horses for slaughter.
2. It's not the racing industry than transports horses abroad for slaughter, it's the scumbag dealers.
I wonder why you are so convinced that it is only racehorses that go for slaughter? A study done in the US found that 70% of the horses sent for slaughter were riding horses.
No, you haven't a clue what you are arguing, and you are not seeing the bigger picture. Whilst I agree wholeheartedly about the overbreeding, it is across the board, not confined to racing.
Horses are a leisure industry now, and as such tend to be passed around far more than they used to be. That however, is a whole new thread in itself.
Whilst horses are treated as currency and status, they will ultimately become unwanted at some stage in their lives. With the costs of euthanasia and disposal escalating, the abattoir is a very real need.
You are doing horses such a huge disservice by refusing to accept that.
AndySpooner
Well-Known Member
I hardly know where to start.......
Some people can't afford to put a horse down. Frequently, these 'lovely caring owners' sell their older horses on to dealers, to get rid of them, therefore putting the horse through the misery of unknown places, people, and likely a great deal less care than they are used to receiving because they've suddenly become a commodity. And if they're lucky they go to Potters or Turners quite quickly, and not doing the rounds of the markets first, or getting shipped abroad.
What in your world would you have them do? I'd rather see them go straight to slaughter.
See, here's the root of the problem. This is not about YOU, or YOUR feelings, it's about facing the very real overcrowding problems currently faced by the UK herd.
As for the attack on the racing industry - making wild accusations hardly helps your argument. The max price for a fully grown racehorse at an abattoir will be no more than £450. Do you really think the industry profits for each horse at that price? That won't even cover stud fees for most of them, never mind keep and nutrition and all the other costs associated with raising foals.
Why do you think that? All the slaughterhouses do is mop up the unwanted. Maybe how SOME of the p i k e y s raise horses would make money, but mostly those profiting are the dealers who buy from selfish people who won't make the decision to have their own horses euthanased.
Ii
You really need to get your facts straight before you start flinging accusations about.
1. It is NOT illegal to export horses for slaughter.
2. It's not the racing industry than transports horses abroad for slaughter, it's the scumbag dealers.
I wonder why you are so convinced that it is only racehorses that go for slaughter? A study done in the US found that 70% of the horses sent for slaughter were riding horses.
No, you haven't a clue what you are arguing, and you are not seeing the bigger picture. Whilst I agree wholeheartedly about the overbreeding, it is across the board, not confined to racing.
Horses are a leisure industry now, and as such tend to be passed around far more than they used to be. That however, is a whole new thread in itself.
Whilst horses are treated as currency and status, they will ultimately become unwanted at some stage in their lives. With the costs of euthanasia and disposal escalating, the abattoir is a very real need.
You are doing horses such a huge disservice by refusing to accept that.
so agree.
Fii
Well-Known Member
QR, i don't think any horse owner will make any money at the moment, from sending a horse to slaughter, I think i am right in saying that you will get about 20p a pound , hardly going to make your furtune with horse meat eh.
friesian80
Well-Known Member
Id like to point out im not trying to fight for horse slaughter to be stopped, im not claiming to have all the answer or know all the facts, im just discussing the issue.
I know everyone on this thread is for horse slaughter and I respect their views and thoughts I just wanted to know if pll agreed that if the overbreeding issue was addressed perhaps horse slaughter could be reduced. Surely if it wasnt so easy for the racing industry to dispose of the TB's the overbreeding numbers might be reduced, should this not be discussed or do we all just agree make more horse slaughterhouses so more horses can be slaughtered?
Im willing to listen to those who do have facts and figues and know what they are speaking about, it just seems a lot of ppl jump on the bandwagon and agree with everyone else for fear of upsetting someone
I know everyone on this thread is for horse slaughter and I respect their views and thoughts I just wanted to know if pll agreed that if the overbreeding issue was addressed perhaps horse slaughter could be reduced. Surely if it wasnt so easy for the racing industry to dispose of the TB's the overbreeding numbers might be reduced, should this not be discussed or do we all just agree make more horse slaughterhouses so more horses can be slaughtered?
Im willing to listen to those who do have facts and figues and know what they are speaking about, it just seems a lot of ppl jump on the bandwagon and agree with everyone else for fear of upsetting someone
Fii
Well-Known Member
SOME people do sell their dangerouse horses on to someone else, from where they may end up abroad. Not nesasarely for meat, but thats what will happen.
Mine went to Potters, because once she was booked in, she was'nt going to end up anywhere else, with anyone else!!!!!!!!!!!
You are very mistaken if you think the majority of horse that go to kill are race horses, all sorts go, they are inundated at the moment,
One thing i would like you to think about............
If tomorro you, for whatever reason lost all your money, nothing left, you onley own the clothes you wear, what do you do with your horse.
You can't afford the vet, or the hunt and it might take you months to sell them, and in the meantime you can't afford to feed them........ What do you do????????????
Horrible thought i know, but it could happen to any of us.
And has happened to a lot of people.
friesian80
Well-Known Member
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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friesian80
Well-Known Member
Where did I say it was ALL about TB's?????? I will repeat myself and say I think a large percentage of horses slaughtered in the Uk are TB's and believe if that issue was addressed horse slaughter in the UK would be dramatically reduced.
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brigantia
Well-Known Member
I think one thing we all agree on is that overbreeding needs to be addressed.
So what are the facts re transport: is it legal or not to transport UK horses abroad for slaughter?
Re unwanted horses, the obvious alternative solution is euthansia--via injection or a bullet by someone who knows what they're doing in the horse's familiar environment.
In fact, many unwanted, surplus horses are unsuitable for slaughter--the meat industry doesn't want diseased or emaciated horses.
Re "we need more slaughterhouses"--if it were profitable, there would be more slaughterhouses. Demand rules the business, not supply.
So what are the facts re transport: is it legal or not to transport UK horses abroad for slaughter?
Re unwanted horses, the obvious alternative solution is euthansia--via injection or a bullet by someone who knows what they're doing in the horse's familiar environment.
In fact, many unwanted, surplus horses are unsuitable for slaughter--the meat industry doesn't want diseased or emaciated horses.
Re "we need more slaughterhouses"--if it were profitable, there would be more slaughterhouses. Demand rules the business, not supply.
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
There's not a lot more to say it's all been said.
But you stupid facebook people need to grow up, face facts about slaughter, it will happen, always will and is the best ending for some horses to save suffering long term.
Potters are busy and when I rung them they had a long waiting list so we need more slaughter houses to deal with it.
Grow up and face facts.
You stupid stupid lot
But you stupid facebook people need to grow up, face facts about slaughter, it will happen, always will and is the best ending for some horses to save suffering long term.
Potters are busy and when I rung them they had a long waiting list so we need more slaughter houses to deal with it.
Grow up and face facts.
You stupid stupid lot
jadelovescassie
Well-Known Member
Once upon a time I was also very naive like most of the people on that silly FB group. After reading a lot of posts on this forum about horse slaughter I have definitely changed my mind!
In an ideal world I think all of us would love for every horse to have a nice home and be cared for by their owner. However in reality that isn't the case. The slaughter of horses isn't something I like or want, but it is a necessity. Rather them have a more comfortable ending close to home rather than be transported miles overseas in terrible conditions. I really don't understand how these people trying to shut down the UK slaughterhouses think they are going to help the horses, it's simple, they'll cause most unwanted horses in the UK a much more horrific and slow death.
In an ideal world I think all of us would love for every horse to have a nice home and be cared for by their owner. However in reality that isn't the case. The slaughter of horses isn't something I like or want, but it is a necessity. Rather them have a more comfortable ending close to home rather than be transported miles overseas in terrible conditions. I really don't understand how these people trying to shut down the UK slaughterhouses think they are going to help the horses, it's simple, they'll cause most unwanted horses in the UK a much more horrific and slow death.
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
Until EEC regulations enforced a change there were many small slaughterhouses all over the country which slaughtered all kinds of farm animals and horses from the local area, they would also come out to 'fallen stock' and emergencies.
Then the EEC brought out so many regulations that there wasn't enough profit to be made by small slaughterhouses. And I don't mean that slaughtermen couldn't make millions but that they couldn't make a reasonable living (just like many RS owners can't, because of all the regulations).
So most of the slaughterhouses closed down, which meant that ALL stock, not just horses, had to travel further from the farm, or wherever.
Those who are suggesting that there should be more slaughterhouses are not wanting to slaughter more animals but would rather that no animal had to travel more than a minimum mileage to be slaughtered.
We are very fortunate in my area as although the local slaughterhouse closed, it is now run as an 'Equine Crematorium'. The owner or one of her staff will come out to shoot the horse at home, or the horse-owner can arrange for it to be taken there at a specified time. She will also collect a horse which the vet has euthanased. A very valuable service as few people can bury their horses at home.
Why should people be forced to have a horse euthanased (& I agree with brighteyes, it is still slaughter) by injection? I certainly don't want that for my horses.
There is far too much sentiment from people with very little experience and even less sense, IMO.
Amaranta
Well-Known Member
No it is not illegal to transport UK horses for slaughter, it does and is happening - right now, the bin end dealers don't care whether it is a coloured cob, a welsh hill pony or a racehorse, all get them good money on the continent.
I think you will find the the ratio of horses unfit for the meat market is very small in comparison to those that are suitable. Aside from that, it is not unknown for a bin end dealer to falsify a passport! There are practically no checks made at the ports so it is relatively easy for them to bring anything in or out of the country.
It IS profitable, the remaining two houses in the UK have waiting lists - we DO need more to deal with the massive upsurge in unwanted horses, the alternatives to a quick death are starvation, neglect and a long journey to God knows where.
Amaranta
Well-Known Member
Alec Swan
...
As your user name would describe you!! A bit strong, perhaps, but in essence, correct!!
Alec.
Allover
Well-Known Member
Exactly this for me too, and what i have been trying to say on the FB page (Chelsey here!!! Helloooooo
)It is not the right time to be closing slaughter houses and never will be until over breeding is sorted out.
I would never, ever send one of my horses off to the slaughter house, it would be done at "home", with me by their side.
Changes
Well-Known Member
Friesian, just read this contradictory sentence that you wrote-
Now find me statisitcs proving that the horses in abattoirs are a large percentage TBs. I am fully confident that you won't because they are not.
Taken from the blog I linked to above, bearing in mind America has a similar horse society to our own -
Also, for whoever questioned it, it is NOT illegal to transport horses abroad for slaughter.
Now find me statisitcs proving that the horses in abattoirs are a large percentage TBs. I am fully confident that you won't because they are not.
Taken from the blog I linked to above, bearing in mind America has a similar horse society to our own -
Also, for whoever questioned it, it is NOT illegal to transport horses abroad for slaughter.
friesian80
Well-Known Member
If British horse slaughter was banned would it be legal to ship these horses overseas for slaughter?
If so does someone have a link to a site where it confims this please?
If so does someone have a link to a site where it confims this please?
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friesian80
Well-Known Member
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/oct/01/horseracing.sport
This among many other sites informs me that a large percentage of TB's bred for the track end up slaughtered, mass overbreeding in the industry is what Id like to address.
Changes
Well-Known Member
There are no sites saying it is legal to ship them abroad. There would only be laws saying it was ILLEGAL to ship them abroad, but as it isn't, there aren't.
If you want to find out, I sugest you ask WHW, RSPCA, DEFRA......... they are all fully aware of horses going abroad for slaughter.
Changes
Well-Known Member
Oh dear. This is a newspaper article set up by the Animal Aid eejit. It's sensationalism.
Find figures and percentages the way the America version of DEFRA have, and then discuss it.
friesian80
Well-Known Member
So 'changes' are you trying to tell me a large percentage of TB's bred for racing do not end up slaughtered because they didnt make the grade?
If they dont get slaughtered could you tell me what happens to them?
If they dont get slaughtered could you tell me what happens to them?
Changes
Well-Known Member
What I am saying is that they make up a small percentage of the horses that go for slaughter. Your implication is that the racing industry supplies most of the horses going to the abattoir, and that is not the case.
Your 'newspaper' quotes an estimated 2-3,000 horses slaughtered from racing in 2006, a figure then refuted by the abattoir. Even taking that as worst case scenario, it is still around 11% as European statistics have over 20,000 horses slaughtered annually in the UK between 2002 and 2007. Hardly the majority.
friesian80
Well-Known Member
Do you agree though a large percentage of horses bred in the racing industry get sent for slaughter?
If you do agree do you think this is fine and the issue of overbreeding within the industry isnt a problem?