petition to make the Grand National safer

Status
Not open for further replies.
Excuse me why am I horrible? Who am I being horrible to? this is how I feel, me, not you. Everyone on here seems to be having a dig at lassiesuca, I am supporting her because I can understand how she feels. It was my rabbit and to me she will never be replacable. There is no need to be rude, we are all entitled to our own opinions and emotions. Why should I value human life more because you do? That's you not me. I have seen a lot more of the bad side of humans. My pets do not have "sides" They are what they are and accept me for who I am. I haven't met many humans that do that. So excuse me if I place my pets life on the same level as humans
 
Mrs B said:
Because you are equating the grief you would feel at losing your horse to, say, that of 3Beasties when losing her best friend, when there would be no possible comparison - and that is what is insulting to both 3Beasties and her friend's memory. I hope it is a long time before you have to find that out the hard way.
Click to expand...
Er, grief is grief. There isn't a sliding scale of 'grief score' that is appropriate depending on who or what a person has lost!
 
I've watched this thread and wasn't going to join in but I'm disgusted at the attitudes towards animals by some on here. Why can't we love humans and animals equally? We're all animals at the end of the day. To say that an animal is replaceable is as ridiculous as saying that a human is replaceable. All life is precious, we are not better than animals, in fact in some cases I would say that we are much worse.

Someone mentioned that the OP is a minor, other older members of this forum should be disgusted at your comments to her/him. You've behaved worse than the animals that you value so little. Talk about pack mentality.

I like racing and enjoy hunting but I was horrified at the Grand National. It's really made me think about the ethics of it. I might not agree 100% with the OP but they raise some interesting points. It's just a shame that some of you have to get abusive instead of discussing it even if you do disagree.
 
Golf Girl said:
What utter tosh! It depends on who you are, but to most people losing a beloved pet is every bit as heartbreaking as losing a human that they love.
Click to expand...

That statement and those made by lassiesuca make me just so incredibly angry. I adored all my animals and wept when they died (not 'passed' they're not bloody urine!) both when the decision was made by me and when it was taken out of my hands.

But let me tell you, the utter, excruciating pain of getting a phone call to say my Mum had been killed was almost unbearable and I can't begin to describe it to you. I heard screaming and had no idea it came from me. I ran into a wall in my distress.

I will be charitable and guess that you are both as young and clueless as each other to have said such things And I'll edit that to include HuntingPink and ridefast.
 
Last edited:
lassiesuca said:
Why should they not be compared?

Is it illegal to value an animal equally or perhaps to some, more than the loss of a human?
It's not sick, twisted or callous. It's called emotion, it's called loving something you care deeply about, a family member. There is no harm in doing so.

I love my friends, family and of course, all my animals. When one of them passes, I am deeply upset. Don't tell my the pain I should feel. Don't tell me the pain I shouldn't feel. Don't tell me how I need help and don't judge me before you even know me.
Click to expand...

Who said it's breaking the law? Looking at the BIG picture all life should be valued equally - everything/one has a right on this earth. (And I'm no bunny hugger!)

Without being patronising, I think you being so young I don't think you have experienced deep loss of someone you really love/care about. When I was in my teens I couldn't think of anything worse than losing a pet and would be really upset for a long time. Then I grew up, matured and learned a lot.

There is nothing wrong with feeling emotional when losing an animal - I think everyone will agree that when/if someone loses their horse they are deeply upset and are for a long time after. But the point everyone is trying to make is that they are totally different - and I don't think you will understand that until it has happened to you.

I think people are finding it insulting and hurtful, and maybe should end the thread there.
 
And I cannot believe some of the attitudes towards human life. Some of you seriously need to get some perspective.

I knew people who lost a daughter in a riding accident. Her mother is now depressed and their grief is palpable - and I will never forget her mother sobbing "I wish it was that bl**dy horse instead".

Imagine your mother/father/son/daughter rides and, god forbid, has an accident. Who would you rather lose?

I also know a family who own a few Point to Pointers, and they lost one a few weeks ago. It was ridden by their son, a horror fall. They loved the horse dearly - but the first thing his mother said to me was "Thank goodness it was the horse and not him."

Of course animals are individuals, but my god - you cannot replace a human life, imagine what it must be like for the parents of that poor boy. Comparing losing a dog or a rabbit or a horse to losing a family member is absolutely ridiculous. You may think losing your dog is the worst thing in the world, but you can buy another and that grief can be dampened just a little bit - you can't buy another mother, that is someone you miss every single day and I cannot even BEGIN to describe how it feels to lose someone like that. Let me tell you, it is a million times worse than you losing your pets.
 
Mrs B said:
That statement and those made by lassiesuca make me just so incredibly angry. I adored all my animals and wept when they died (not 'passed' they're not bloody urine!) both when the decision was made by me and when it was taken out of my hands.

But let me tell you, the utter, excruciating pain of getting a phone call to say my Mum had been killed was almost unbearable and I can't begin to describe it to you. I heard screaming and had no idea it came from me. I ran into a wall in my distress.

I will be charitable and guess that you are both as young and clueless as each other to have said such things.
Click to expand...

OK Mrs B now don't you go starting on me! I have suffered all sorts of personal tragedies in my long life but that is frankly neither here nor there. How dare you assume that I am young and clueless!
 
martlin said:
Phew, that was quite a read! Loads of arguments going...
Now me, I won't be signing your petition, my view might be biased as I grew up with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DmqIEsE3Yc
as my annual racing fix, so there's no wonder I believe the Grand National is quite allright, actually
Click to expand...

:eek: :eek: :eek: Thats immense! :D I love the GN but have no desire to ever want to ride round it but THAT race...I wanna do it! Mental!! Thanks for sharing! :D
 
teagreen said:
And I cannot believe some of the attitudes towards human life. Some of you seriously need to get some perspective.

I knew people who lost a daughter in a riding accident. Her mother is now depressed and their grief is palpable - and I will never forget her mother sobbing "I wish it was that bl**dy horse instead".

Imagine your mother/father/son/daughter rides and, god forbid, has an accident. Who would you rather lose?

I also know a family who own a few Point to Pointers, and they lost one a few weeks ago. It was ridden by their son, a horror fall. They loved the horse dearly - but the first thing his mother said to me was "Thank goodness it was the horse and not him."

Of course animals are individuals, but my god - you cannot replace a human life, imagine what it must be like for the parents of that poor boy. Comparing losing a dog or a rabbit or a horse to losing a family member is absolutely ridiculous. You may think losing your dog is the worst thing in the world, but you can buy another and that grief can be dampened just a little bit - you can't buy another mother, that is someone you miss every single day and I cannot even BEGIN to describe how it feels to lose someone like that. Let me tell you, it is a million times worse than you losing your pets.
Click to expand...

'Like'
 
I've lost two people who were both very close to me, one was family who died from an illness, the other man was a very dear friend who was killed by someone else. I still miss both every single day and I still cry about loosing them - to me, that grief was on a scale above what I can humanely measure. I've also lost many animals, all of which have been considered family to me. To be honest, I actually can't measure grief at all, loosing anyone I love to me is incomprehensible and no life is "replaceable" at all, imo.

however, I appreciate that everyone views things different. Everyone is different, that's the beauty of the world. Lassiesuca's views are not 'wrong' and they're not 'deluded' .... they're just different to yours.

Back on topic, I actually think it's great the passion she has behind what she feels is wrong, I wish more people had that fight. I'm not anti-racing at all, but I would very much support lowering the starters

I agree, perhaps ending this thread would probably be a good idea
 
teagreen said:
And I cannot believe some of the attitudes towards human life. Some of you seriously need to get some perspective.

I knew people who lost a daughter in a riding accident. Her mother is now depressed and their grief is palpable - and I will never forget her mother sobbing "I wish it was that bl**dy horse instead".

Imagine your mother/father/son/daughter rides and, god forbid, has an accident. Who would you rather lose?

I also know a family who own a few Point to Pointers, and they lost one a few weeks ago. It was ridden by their son, a horror fall. They loved the horse dearly - but the first thing his mother said to me was "Thank goodness it was the horse and not him."

Of course animals are individuals, but my god - you cannot replace a human life, imagine what it must be like for the parents of that poor boy. Comparing losing a dog or a rabbit or a horse to losing a family member is absolutely ridiculous. You may think losing your dog is the worst thing in the world, but you can buy another and that grief can be dampened just a little bit - you can't buy another mother, that is someone you miss every single day and I cannot even BEGIN to describe how it feels to lose someone like that. Let me tell you, it is a million times worse than you losing your pets.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. Seriously some people on this thread need to get a grip, it's actually quite frightening some of the warped views expressed in this thread
 
Golf Girl said:
OK Mrs B now don't you go starting on me! I have suffered all sorts of personal tragedies in my long life but that is frankly neither here nor there. How dare you assume that I am young and clueless!
Click to expand...

I think most people on this forum assume you're just clueless, going by your entire post history. Young is too much of an assumption ;)
 
Tinkerbee said:
Tbh, a horse is a horse. Replaceable.

My thoughts and concerns are with the JOCKEY (a human...) Peter Toole :( and he wasn't even in the GN...
Click to expand...

Sounds like he's going to be okay. Let's hope so.

As for the replaceable comment, well that sounds very callous. Not an animal lover then? I can honestly say that although I have had many many animals (dogs and horses) there are some that can never be replaced. My mare is one of those. When she goes, my passion for horses will never be the same. Just because you have not loved an animal like that, does not mean that it is wrong. Of course, I love my family even more, but there are some people who have no one at all and their animals are their lives. Do not belittle them and disrespect their feelings. We are all different.
 
Golf Girl said:
OK Mrs B now don't you go starting on me! I have suffered all sorts of personal tragedies in my long life but that is frankly neither here nor there. How dare you assume that I am young and clueless!
Click to expand...

Because that's exactly how you come across by posting such insulting crassness!
 
Thankyou Mrs B, you have no idea who I am, how old I am, what or who I have lost in my life, in fact, you know NOTHING about me. But you are happy to make false assumptions about me, well, thankyou. It's strange how the people being the most personal and insulting and patronizing on here are among the older generation. Very mature
 
I'm sorry, but anyone who says that they were as upset when their rabbit died to "a close family member", just has to be a bunny hugger!! I've been lucky enough not to lose a close family member, well elderly grand parents but that's a bit different.

My dogs and my horse are like my babies and I don't know what I'll do when I lose them, but I would never even think of comparing that to a losing a parent, partner, sibling or child.

Maybe the people making those comparisons don't have real "loved ones" like the rest of us do. It's a horrible comment to make for YOUR family to those who said that!!

I can understand why people get sentimental over animals but we live in a world where in fact their life is not treated as importantly as humans. That's why we aren't all vegans and do what the f we want basically. Like it or hate it it's the truth, and the GN is the least of our worries.
 
:O I can't believe this thread!!!
How on earth can anyone say that losing their mum, dad, brother, sister..isn't as bad as losing their bloody pet is beyond me!
I'm not saying you cant love your pets, I love all of my pets dearly, they are part of my family. But to put them at a par with your human family..its just stupid. What have your pets ever done for you? They rely on you for food and shelter, and the occasional cuddle. They don't care about you half as much as much as your family do. So why should you care more about them than your family?!
 
kickonchaps said:
Words actually fail me. I hope no one from his family visits HHO.
Click to expand...

Oh come on! At least she is being honest. If you asked half the country if they would feel grief at the passing of the stranger or would personally feel more grief if their beloved dog were run over, I know what the honest ones would say. They do not know the stranger. He has no effect on their lives, and so how can they feel personal loss? Sad, yes, and very sorry for all his relatives, but to say it actually affected their own lives and made them feel grief, then they would be lying. If however, they were a fan of his, things would probably be very different. And again if he was not a stranger but a brother or a father, then they would be far more devastated than if it were their dog.
 
Vizslak said:
:eek: :eek: :eek: Thats immense! :D I love the GN but have no desire to ever want to ride round it but THAT race...I wanna do it! Mental!! Thanks for sharing! :D
Click to expand...

there you go, especially for you a program in English about it from 2008, it has been made ''safer'', but still
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjr2FIrLcjI
the race itself starts at 9min

oranica, or in English the ploughed ground is their favourite bit ;)
 
"I'm sorry, but anyone who says that they were as upset when their rabbit died to "a close family member", just has to be a bunny hugger!!"

Yes so what's your point? Why can't I love my rabbit as much as I love my horse? Is it the size? Are smaller animals not worthy of the same amount of love, and grief when they die? Why is it so hard for people to comprehend that I loved her fiercely, was devastated when she died and still get upset and miss her many years later? I feel sorry for people that clearly can't love that much. Just imagine how much love I have for the humans in my life that I DO care about.
 
Wagtail said:
Oh come on! At least she is being honest. If you asked half the country if they would feel grief at the passing of the stranger or would personally feel more grief if their beloved dog were run over, I know what the honest ones would say. They do not know the stranger. He has no effect on their lives, and so how can they feel personal loss? Sad, yes, and very sorry for all his relatives, but to say it actually affected their own lives and made them feel grief, then they would be lying. If however, they were a fan of his, things would probably be very different. And again if he was not a stranger but a brother or a father, then they would be far more devastated than if it were their dog.
Click to expand...

Oh god yes I'd be more bothered if my dog died than a passing stranger, but your own family and friends?
 
No BroadfordQueen, the op said she was more upset when her dog died than her friend. I am saying I was as upset when my rabbit died as when family members have died. Come on get it right
 
ridefast said:
"I'm sorry, but anyone who says that they were as upset when their rabbit died to "a close family member", just has to be a bunny hugger!!"

Yes so what's your point? Why can't I love my rabbit as much as I love my horse? Is it the size? Are smaller animals not worthy of the same amount of love, and grief when they die? Why is it so hard for people to comprehend that I loved her fiercely, was devastated when she died and still get upset and miss her many years later? I feel sorry for people that clearly can't love that much. Just imagine how much love I have for the humans in my life that I DO care about.
Click to expand...

So you DIDN'T care about the close family member(s) you lost? That would kind of make sense if it's a distant Uncle you mean, or someone you disliked for whatever reason. But the humans in your life that YOU DO care about, surely they come above the rabbit?

I'm not judging based on size of pet, I'm sure you loved your rabbit just as much as I love my horse, but to compare that to an actual close family member (as in some one you love and care about) is a bit far fetched IMO.
 
I must confess I have in life cared more in life for an animal than I have for many people, I feel guilty for that can't help it its how it was.
And when she died I really greaved, still fell sorrow but thats life. granted I would greave a lot more for most of my respective family but not all.
I would however never put an animal life above a human if it was choice between animal and human human would have to win.

I do come across death regularly at work so maybe that insensitises me to it a bit.

I do question those posters though refusing to accept other peoples point of view just because it is differnt to their own.
It is not fair to mock someone just because they feel something you cannot relate to we are all different that is what makes the world go round!
 
Last edited:
Wagtail said:
Oh come on! At least she is being honest. If you asked half the country if they would feel grief at the passing of the stranger or would personally feel more grief if their beloved dog were run over, I know what the honest ones would say. They do not know the stranger. He has no effect on their lives, and so how can they feel personal loss? Sad, yes, and very sorry for all his relatives, but to say it actually affected their own lives and made them feel grief, then they would be lying. If however, they were a fan of his, things would probably be very different. And again if he was not a stranger but a brother or a father, then they would be far more devastated than if it were their dog.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we'd all be sadder about losing our pets than someone we don't know, but I think it's hugely insulting and insensitive to go round actually naming names, bearing in mind that the horse world is a small place and you're bound to have someone on here who knows someone else etc... Let's not let this degenerate into a messed up ranking system of 'rather my horse than my cat, but rather my neighbour than my horse, although the other neighbour is a friend so rather my horse than them'. I think the vast majority of the population, given a gun and told someone's gotta go, the horse or the sibling/partner/parent/child, would pick the horse every time, and for those who didn't have the choice, hearing other people pick the horse is pretty upsetting

Edited to add... hearing other people NOT pick the horse
 
Last edited:
HuntingPink said:
I've watched this thread and wasn't going to join in but I'm disgusted at the attitudes towards animals by some on here. Why can't we love humans and animals equally? We're all animals at the end of the day. To say that an animal is replaceable is as ridiculous as saying that a human is replaceable. All life is precious, we are not better than animals, in fact in some cases I would say that we are much worse.

Someone mentioned that the OP is a minor, other older members of this forum should be disgusted at your comments to her/him. You've behaved worse than the animals that you value so little. Talk about pack mentality.

I like racing and enjoy hunting but I was horrified at the Grand National. It's really made me think about the ethics of it. I might not agree 100% with the OP but they raise some interesting points. It's just a shame that some of you have to get abusive instead of discussing it even if you do disagree.
Click to expand...

Here! Here!
I was thinking the same. Its a discussion Forum not a bully playground! People are entitled to their opinion, regardless if people agree with it or not. There should be an attitude of diplomacy, matureness & if anything open mindedness. We are not all the same or feel the same BUT we all do Feel. Bullying is NOT the answer. I don't agree with a lot of what has been said on this link as thought it was all rather immature & Nasty. Ive taken on board peoples opinions & that's that!
Be nice people!!!! Listen to what they say & be more respectful & thoughtful with your answers.
 
Ridefast I guess it is because rabbits generally do not live as long as horses. But also grief over the loss of a rabbit will be very personal to one individual as compared with grief over the loss of a person. Even if you feel grief for a rabbit more than a close family member, surely seeing the pain and grief that other friends, family, children are suffering makes it that much worse and harder. The death of a rabbit will never create the ripple effects of grief like the loss of a person. I can't believe I even have to write that.
Having lost friends/family members as well as pets I know which loss is harder. I don't think "older" members are being hard, I think they just hope that some of the statements written are youthful lack of experience of death.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top