petition to make the Grand National safer

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Wonders, has there ever been any fatalities in the Shetland Grand National??? should all TBs be culled ? and be replaced with short legged hardy ponies :-0
 
HashRouge said:
No I'm sorry but that's not true. The 33 stated by the Mail refers to the National meeting, not the Grand National itself. Her figures are not as accurate as Caledonia's although, as I pointed out, Caledonia's figures aren't 100% accurate either.
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I missed Goguenard - apologies. And I have mentioned Graphic Approach, however, he didn't die on the course, or injure himself directly from the fall. He was running loose, and I 'think' it was infection that got him in the end.

Here you go -

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/121407.html
 
Caledonia said:
Go and look at the RESULTS - they are NOT manipulated, they are records. It clearly states the horses that died under their names in the finishing order.

Or are you too lazy, preferring to believe sensationalism shoved in your face over facts that don't suit your case?:rolleyes:
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*puts in earplugs* :D They do not include those that have died as a result of the race but not on the course. And yes, I am quite lazy, actually. For example, I should be mucking out right now instead of having a lively debate.
 
Caledonia- so this is what you said earlier...
National deaths last 12 years

2011 - 2 from heavy falls - attributed, IMO due to fast ground.
2010 - no deaths
2009 - 1 death - not from a fall, but 'I hear the Echo' collapsed and died on the run in.
2008 - 1 death - McKelvey got injured running loose after unseating
2007 - no deaths
2006 - 1 death - Tyneandtyneagain - fall
2005 - no deaths
2004 - no deaths
2003 - no deaths
2002 - 2 deaths - The Last Fling and Manx Magic - both falls on good ground
2001 - no deaths
2000 - no deaths



So 2010, no fatalities?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/apr/09/deaths-grand-national-aintree


http://www.horseracing.co.uk/news/2010/04/plaisir-d’estruval-–-22nd-march-2003-to-9th-april-2010/

http://www.horseracing.co.uk/news/2010/04/prudent-honour-–-8th-may-2002-to-9th-april-2010/




(Just to confirm the 'hear say')

So before you condemn ME on hearsay, perhaps consider your own facts, too :)
 
rosiefronfelen said:
The nanny state again- dear oh dear-
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Actually to be fair, I don't think that this is about being a nanny state. It is about a person's legitimate concerns over animal welfare (however confused). In essence I support some of the concerns, and see nothing wrong in highlighting them.

The OP is a little confused about what exactly they are concerned about. However, animal welfare should never be seen as part of the nanny state. And I think that all of us would probably agree about that.
 
lassiesuca said:
Caledonia- so this is what you said earlier...
National deaths last 12 years

2011 - 2 from heavy falls - attributed, IMO due to fast ground.
2010 - no deaths
2009 - 1 death - not from a fall, but 'I hear the Echo' collapsed and died on the run in.
2008 - 1 death - McKelvey got injured running loose after unseating
2007 - no deaths
2006 - 1 death - Tyneandtyneagain - fall
2005 - no deaths
2004 - no deaths
2003 - no deaths
2002 - 2 deaths - The Last Fling and Manx Magic - both falls on good ground
2001 - no deaths
2000 - no deaths



So 2010, no fatalities?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/apr/09/deaths-grand-national-aintree


http://www.horseracing.co.uk/news/2010/04/plaisir-d’estruval-–-22nd-march-2003-to-9th-april-2010/

http://www.horseracing.co.uk/news/2010/04/prudent-honour-–-8th-may-2002-to-9th-april-2010/




(Just to confirm the 'hear say')

So before you condemn ME on hearsay, perhaps consider your own facts, too :)
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They didn't die in the National ......... get your facts straight.........
 
amymay said:
Yes I was. And I firmly believe that the GN does need to be looked at and reviewed. Less horses, no handicaps and better qualifications for horse and rider.

However, I am not anti racing, anti GN or anti basing my facts on good solid information and research.
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Nor am I against racing. I stopped watching the Grand National a couple of years ago when I realised I was just watching in hope to see them all round safely. I would like to enjoy it again.
 
If the owners, trainers and jockeys want to be a part of the National, who are you to deside otherwise?
Whatever you do won't effect the future running of the race, so give up and save your breath.

The owner of Ornais has said, although sad he has lost his horse, he is sadder for the critics complaining about the 'cruel race'. It was run on perfect ground, and falling early on the first circuit had nothing to do with lack of stamina at the end of what is a long race, just very unlucky.
 
The figure of 33 horses which I also heard quoted on the TV this morning was said to be for the whole Grand National Meeting over the last x number of years. This is a whole three day meeting - not just one race. I think you'll find that there will be more carnage during the "Foxhunters" rather than the GN itself.

IMO you can't make the fences smaller, course less, it will encourage more speed and it won't be the Grand National. Whoever said about the Scottish national not losing any horses - this is far less of a race than the GN.

Yes it was incredibly sad and viewers were much more aware than previous years because of the camera angles and the fact that we could see there were fallers - in previous years this hasn't happened and so the great majority of people could adopt an "out of sight out of mind" attitude.

Someone on a previous thread sleighted the girl who won £1900 on a tricast bet - well on the racecourse you are usually unaware of horses who have died unless you watch to see what happens its not generally announced so this girl could have been in blissful ignorance.

Deaths happen in every aspect of equestrianism and I'm sure owners don't enter their horses lightly into this race but don't lets lose another great tradition and start the decline of racing.

Will not be signing petition I'm afraid.

Sorry kept quiet up until now but just had to vent my thoughts!
 
Caledonia said:
And you base that on WHAT? Did you see the autopsy? If a horse is going to have a heart attack, it will - a piece of work could have triggered that as easily as the race did.
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Lol. You do have a strange way of looking at things. Yes a pootle round the school is just as hard as running the National. I see where you are coming from now. ;)
 
lassiesuca said:
Caledonia- so this is what you said earlier...
National deaths last 12 years

2011 - 2 from heavy falls - attributed, IMO due to fast ground.
2010 - no deaths
2009 - 1 death - not from a fall, but 'I hear the Echo' collapsed and died on the run in.
2008 - 1 death - McKelvey got injured running loose after unseating
2007 - no deaths
2006 - 1 death - Tyneandtyneagain - fall
2005 - no deaths
2004 - no deaths
2003 - no deaths
2002 - 2 deaths - The Last Fling and Manx Magic - both falls on good ground
2001 - no deaths
2000 - no deaths



So 2010, no fatalities?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/apr/09/deaths-grand-national-aintree


http://www.horseracing.co.uk/news/2010/04/plaisir-d’estruval-–-22nd-march-2003-to-9th-april-2010/

http://www.horseracing.co.uk/news/2010/04/prudent-honour-–-8th-may-2002-to-9th-april-2010/




(Just to confirm the 'hear say')

So before you condemn ME on hearsay, perhaps consider your own facts, too :)
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Ummmm none of these deaths were at the Grand National, they happened at the Topham Chase.

I thought your petition was about the National or have I got it wrong and it is about Aintree in general?
 
lassiesuca said:
Is Grand National not held at Aintree, which is the same course as the GN anyway...
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I'm not sure which race these horses died in, however you have raised another point:

The Topham chase is run over the national course, but with fewer runners and at a shorter distance. Horses still die. And as those articles show, horses die in all sorts of different races...not just over the National course. So what do you want to do, ban racing?
 
lassiesuca said:
Is Grand National not held at Aintree, which is the same course as the GN anyway...
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Your petition states that all these horses died in the GN. They didn't. Your petition is about changing the GN based on inaccurate hearsay.

Don't move the goalposts. If you genuinely cared, you would have done your research throughly so that you could put your case.
 
Wagtail said:
Lol. You do have a strange way of looking at things. Yes a pootle round the school is just as hard as running the National. I see where you are coming from now. ;)
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Do you understand the term 'a piece of work' in relation to race horses..........
 
Not going to sign for all the reasons pointed out by previous posters. I love my racing but everyone involves understands the risks involved with it - as with any other disciplines involved with horses.
 
lassiesuca said:
Caledonia- so this is what you said earlier...
National deaths last 12 years

2011 - 2 from heavy falls - attributed, IMO due to fast ground.
2010 - no deaths
2009 - 1 death - not from a fall, but 'I hear the Echo' collapsed and died on the run in.
2008 - 1 death - McKelvey got injured running loose after unseating
2007 - no deaths
2006 - 1 death - Tyneandtyneagain - fall
2005 - no deaths
2004 - no deaths
2003 - no deaths
2002 - 2 deaths - The Last Fling and Manx Magic - both falls on good ground
2001 - no deaths
2000 - no deaths



So 2010, no fatalities?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/apr/09/deaths-grand-national-aintree


http://www.horseracing.co.uk/news/2010/04/plaisir-d’estruval-–-22nd-march-2003-to-9th-april-2010/

http://www.horseracing.co.uk/news/2010/04/prudent-honour-–-8th-may-2002-to-9th-april-2010/




(Just to confirm the 'hear say')

So before you condemn ME on hearsay, perhaps consider your own facts, too :)
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Sorry but I think that proves the point that you really have no idea about racing!

The National meeting is run over 3 days, the above horses died in other races they DIDN'T die in the Grand National!
 
Double_choc_lab said:
IMO you can't make the fences smaller, course less, it will encourage more speed and it won't be the Grand National. Whoever said about the Scottish national not losing any horses - this is far less of a race than the GN.

Yes it was incredibly sad and viewers were much more aware than previous years because of the camera angles and the fact that we could see there were fallers - in previous years this hasn't happened and so the great majority of people could adopt an "out of sight out of mind" attitude.



Deaths happen in every aspect of equestrianism and I'm sure owners don't enter their horses lightly into this race but don't lets lose another great tradition and start the decline of racing.

Will not be signing petition I'm afraid.

Sorry kept quiet up until now but just had to vent my thoughts!
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Agree re camera angles. I think the race made the one big mistake of by passing those 2 fences. In previous years this was not possible, the fallen horses were quickly removed to the side to allow the jump to be jumpable.
 
Im another who won't be signing , i have read through many posts this morning regards to the safety of the grand national
I have to say i have watched
It for years , and it seems there is less accidents I'n grand national This year then there was , 4-5 years ago
To me this is possibly down to the fact they did review the safety side of it , And again are reviewing it again this year due to the 2 that died on Saturday
I have worked I'n the breeding side of racehorses , and also i have a friend who just brought a racehorse that has just come off the track , not for the fact she too slow (she had come I'n first and seconds ), or didn't want to run , they had to lay her off because she was to over fusiasic about running (so much for racehorses don't like there job )
As to the safety side of racing over cross country
There is accidents I'n all equestrian sports whether it racing , cross
country , jumping etc
There is still a risk
How do we now it not the sAme % of deaths I'n cross-country then there is I'n racing
There might be the same amount but not all reconised
As to the safety Side of cross country
Only yesterday i was reading I'n horse and hound about the corcerns
Of safety over the unfixed jumps
These are the 3 deaths that have accured over safety on the cross-country jumps
(1) is a pony member jade south of 15
Was killed I'n 2008 whose horse somersaulted over a unfixed cross country rally
(2) Russian rider elena Timonina
,15 was killed I'n may 2010 from a unfixed trailer type fence
(3) French competitor Maia butanes ,29 who died when horse did a rotational Fall from an unpinned jump
So much for safety on the cross country course
 
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amymay said:
Do you understand the term 'a piece of work' in relation to race horses..........
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Yes, on the gallops. My friend has around twenty race horses. I source and retrain failed race horses for clients. But to me, a piece of work is in the school.

It is silly to equate running the national with training at home. Caledonia used the term 'just as easily'. That is ridiculous.
 
This is the problem. The GN is very public. And now people with good intentions are jumping to poorly researched, read in the Daily Mail conclusions, or listening to the views of celebrities (I believe that girl from Strictly Come Dancing wants it banned - er, sorry love, what do you know?!) and making a fuss. Unless you have looked at the facts from both sides of the arguement - you should keep quiet.

Nobody seems to be realising that racehorses die in any kind of race. The GN is NOT A ONE OFF!
 
RuthnMeg said:
In previous years this was not possible, the fallen horses were quickly removed to the side to allow the jump to be jumpable.
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In previous years this was more than possible, and happend quite commonly if a horse or rider was prone (for any reason).
 
The Foxhunters on the thursday, The Topham on the friday and The National on the saturday. Those are the 3 races run over the birch fences 'aintree type'. In November there is a 3m (approx) race over the aintree fences too.
 
RuthnMeg said:
Agree re camera angles. I think the race made the one big mistake of by passing those 2 fences. In previous years this was not possible, the fallen horses were quickly removed to the side to allow the jump to be jumpable.
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I think the new safety measures that have been added to the course recently means that a jump can now be by-passed where as before they couldn't so any injured/dead horses where removed very quickly from the track so the race could continue, I guess now that doesn't have to be done so much.

They have also added Slip lanes (not sure what the official name for them is!) for the loose horses to go down so they can't cause any further accidents, I must admit I thought these worked very well.
 
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