petition to make the Grand National safer

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3Beasties said:
I actually can't believe you just typed that! :eek: :eek:

An animals life should NEVER, EVER be compared to that of a humans.
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Why not? I would rather have with me one of my horses than some of the evil people who walk this planet. And although I am no fluffy bunny hugger whatever they are called, I also believe that animals ARE individual beings, they do not come out of a cloned packet.

And for whoever stated about putting human emotions onto animals. Animals feel fear and pain just as humans do. Just to clarify, anthromorphism annoys me, "Oh I bet she didn't want to go out of her stable in the rain today because she was cold" is anthromorphism. Lying with a broken back and presuming that horse felt no fear or pain is another different issue entirely.

And no I am not against racing but some comments on here are ridiculous!!
 
Tormenta said:
Why not? I would rather have with me one of my horses than some of the evil people who walk this planet. And although I am no fluffy bunny hugger whatever they are called, I also believe that animals ARE individual beings, they do not come out of a cloned packet.

And for whoever stated about putting human emotions onto animals. Animals feel fear and pain just as humans do. Just to clarify, anthromorphism annoys me, "Oh I bet she didn't want to go out of her stable in the rain today because she was cold" is anthromorphism. Lying with a broken back and presuming that horse felt no fear or pain is another different issue entirely.

And no I am not against racing but some comments on here are ridiculous!!
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Just a quicker- but amen to that!
 
lassiesuca said:
I'm not lowering myself to that, starbucks :)

I think you've hit it on the head though, why are we judging people we don't know? Why are we telling people how they should feel?

Anyway, I'm bored of this now, I hate how debates on here always sprial out of control, from both sides. I don't want to get caught in this anymore

Anyway of getting this thread locked? Mods?
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So you don't like it when the tables are turned, it's ok for you to judge people (i.e. those who run their horses in the National) but not for people to judge you?

I think it's pretty much exhausted TBH. Contact Admin, not sure how you do that - they are called thefatcontroller or something along those lines.
 
OR you can click on the little road sign thing at left of comments you don't like and admin will delete if he/she thinks there is anything out of line. :)
 
Starbucks said:
So you don't like it when the tables are turned, it's ok for you to judge people (i.e. those who run their horses in the National) but not for people to judge you?

I think it's pretty much exhausted TBH. Contact Admin, not sure how you do that - they are called thefatcontroller or something along those lines.
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But I've not judged the Grand National in the sense that I've slammed it. I've not proposed we ban it? I've not said you're all cruel.

We're entitled to disagree of course, and I think we're entitled to hold an opinion on things, even if wer'e not ''experienced'' in that field. I've not slammed your beloved industry, I've not gotten all my friends (not saying you have by the way) to help me ''fight'' this never ending battle, I've remained pretty mellow (sometimes I can get really fired up :P) and respected nearly everyone's views.

I think some people have been particular mean though but I shan't regurgitate stuff I've already said.

Ah, I'll get admin to sort it out.
 
teagreen said:
And I cannot believe some of the attitudes towards human life. Some of you seriously need to get some perspective..
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But clearly the people who are comparing loosing a pet with a relative etc are very young and have no life experience - let alone personal experience of loosing someone close to them.

Unitl you have, I don't think you can even begin to understand the grief and sense of loss involved. So if you have nothing to compare it with, it's natural at such a young age to equate it with loosing a pet.

Also, who are we to judge how people feel about loss - whether it be a pet or a person??
 
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amymay said:
But clearly the people who are comparing loosing a pet with a relative etc are very young and have no life experience - let alone personal experience of loosing someone close to them.

Unitl you have, I don't think you can even begin to understand the grief and sense of loss involved. So if you have nothing to compare it with, it's natural at such a young age to equate it with loosing a pet.

Also, who are we to judge how people feel about loss - whether it be a pet or a person??
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Yes, you're right. It is unfair of us to tell them 'this is how you will feel, and no, you shouldn't have been sad about that loss.' It is just difficult when you have lost a close family member not to get rather upset and personal, but I guess we do have to take a step back and remember that there were very happy times in our lives when we hadn't had to endure such losses and that losing a dog was the saddest thing that had happened.

People weren't saying that you should be upset because Peter Toole was ill. I don't know him. However, I have taken a step back and said to myself 'It is very sad about the horses that died. However, if I put myself in his parents shoes, it is even sadder that he is injured.' You have to look at it from the perspective of them and how they must be feeling.

Everyone is sad when they lose a pet, but surely you have to look at it from the perspective of, say, the Phillips family. If given the choice between who they lost that tragic day - Polly or Coral Cove - I am certain who they'd choose. Riding is a risky sport for both horse and rider. But anyone who has lost a family member in tragic circumstances will, I'm sure, tell you the same thing.
 
Youth is an amazing thing, the passion to truly believe we can change the world for the better. I applaud OP for the fact she actually is spirited enough to stand up for what she believes in, years ago before life made us bitter i`m sure we had the same fighting spirit !!


Some of the comments on here from the so called "mature" individuals have been downright rude, and confirm to me once more why i love my animals the way i do, they don`t judge or critise and their capacity to forgive is endless.


I`m not going into the ins and outs of my life, which has not been fun and games i can assure you. I`ve lost loved ones in tragic circumstances, and i`ve lost animals too. I lost my beloved horse in January, and have just buried my grandad last week. Every life that has been lost to me has hurt as much as the other. My husband sobbed at loosing our horse, i`ve never seen him cry like that, but at family funerals he hasn`t shed a tear ... so is he "acid" ? is he "cold hearted" ? No .. he`s not, he is the most wonderful, most gentle man i`ve ever met. Grief for ANY soul that touches our lives cannot be measured in right or wrongs levels of who should be missed the most.
 
teagreen said:
It is just difficult when you have lost a close family member not to get rather upset and personal, but I guess we do have to take a step back and remember that there were very happy times in our lives when we hadn't had to endure such losses and that losing a dog was the saddest thing that had happened.
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At some point we will all have lost someone close to us. But to take personally someones comments about that loss being comparable to loosing a pet is over sensative, I think, and certainly not something to get upset about.
 
can I just say that I think this forum is the nastiest place ever you are all so far up your own backsides that you refuse to see others points of view and only agree with your own views and beliefs!
firstly you all go on about how accidents happen horses die in racing and how the horse is bred to do this job Erm well correct me if im wrong but I don't know of one horse that has gone up to its owner / trainer and said oh I lie racing can't wait till the big one this weekend! seriously these horses have no say in the matter no choice at all, I bet if we could speak to them and said do you want to race but you might die they wouldn't want to do it! we force them onto such a position for our own entertainment values is sick and wrong!!

secondly the whole a family members death means more than animals dying Erm you are completely wrong there you judge the OP saying she is young she wouldnt understand never known such loss well I have two of my grand parents have died and even worse I have suffered the worst possible thing to happen to a woman I lost my baby and that hurt like hell and still does the only thing that got me through it was my horse and I can tell you now that when my horse dies my grief will be the same as losing my baby as I love them both as much I've had my horse since he was 4 months old he's now 11 yrs old and is my best friend and my baby so when he goes it's gonna hurt like hell!! why do humans think they are so much more superior to animals! we are quite possibly the nastiest sickest animals on this planet! some humans disgust me!

rant over.
 
aylad said:
can I just say that I think this forum is the nastiest place ever you are all so far up your own backsides that you refuse to see others points of view and only agree with your own views and beliefs!
firstly you all go on about how accidents happen horses die in racing and how the horse is bred to do this job Erm well correct me if im wrong but I don't know of one horse that has gone up to its owner / trainer and said oh I lie racing can't wait till the big one this weekend! seriously these horses have no say in the matter no choice at all, I bet if we could speak to them and said do you want to race but you might die they wouldn't want to do it! we force them onto such a position for our own entertainment values is sick and wrong!!

secondly the whole a family members death means more than animals dying Erm you are completely wrong there you judge the OP saying she is young she wouldnt understand never known such loss well I have two of my grand parents have died and even worse I have suffered the worst possible thing to happen to a woman I lost my baby and that hurt like hell and still does the only thing that got me through it was my horse and I can tell you now that when my horse dies my grief will be the same as losing my baby as I love them both as much I've had my horse since he was 4 months old he's now 11 yrs old and is my best friend and my baby so when he goes it's gonna hurt like hell!! why do humans think they are so much more superior to animals! we are quite possibly the nastiest sickest animals on this planet! some humans disgust me!

rant over.
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im very sorry for your loss.
i too have lost a child, i had a missed misscarrage at 15 weeks. my horse most deffinatly helped me through. unfortunatly that horse had to be PTS in december and i was devistated, but i would NEVER compair loseing him to loseing my baby. Dont get me wrong i loved freddy soo much, he was my horse of a lifetime but that pregnancy was my REAL baby, my child that was growing inside me. i saw my husband ripped appart by greif, we struggled alot. this is why i personaly take offence at OPs suggestion that a horses life is equal to an equine. just my personal oppinion.
 
I think that is all very personal.

I am certainly no fluffy bunny but actually don't really like the human condition that values human life over any other, and think that some people are entitled to be more attached to their animals than their family.
 
I think that we all need to remember that we can't account for another persons feelings. It shouldn't be insulting, because it's not a personal or slanderous attack, but if it is insulting to you then that is fine. However we shouldn't be condemned because one values their animals life equally or even over another human beings. Why do we take the view that we are far more worthy than ''our fellow animal minions''.

Let's just respect, that like our animals, we are all individuals and we all experience different emotions, different feelings and have different values.
 
Humans are not more important than animals. But they usually are to other humans. Just like horses are more important than humans to other horses. It is a very arrogant view to think of human life as more valuable than an animal's. On the contrary, the planet would be a lot better off if there were far fewer of us. However, of course, losing a human loved one is going to be far more painful than losing an animal. It is only natural. But, it is not always the case. I have known people grieve just as much (sometimes suffering depression for years) after losing an animal. Animals often give us far more comfort and (apparent) love than annoying humans who cause us so much pain and grief. And it is not always the young. Personally, I feel it is disgusting to say things such as 'animals can be replaced'. I don't think they can any more than a human can. It is just that most of the time their deaths do not affect us as much. We just get a new horse or dog or cat. But once in a while, if we are lucky, we come across one that is special. Not everyone will know that feeling.
 
:eek: hasn't this gone completey off topic !? to be frank I am disgusted with some of the attitudes on here !! what does it matter whom or what someone grieves for , we all have DIFFERENT personal experiences and relationships with the people AND animals in our lives. It is appalling that some of you are claiming that people who value their animals in a way that may be different to yours as delusional etc. What gives anyone the right to make others feel as if their emotions are wrong ? who made you god over night ?
How would you react if someone turned around and blungeoned you for grieving over a lost family member , telling you that you are mental and delusional ? &*!% would hit the fan judgeing by the reactions you have all given on here already.
WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT . Noone on here has said you are wrong for feeling the losses you have in your life , and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone ! its a terrible thing to happen and I am incrediably sorry!. BUT an animal may have been the same to someone else , when someone is terribly depressed it can be the shining light that pulls them out of the dark and gives them something to live for , who are you to say thats wrong? Horses are used in therapy to help with people who have confidence issues , depression , bi polar , anxiety etc . and people are the ones who often knock them so far down they want to kill themselves . how do you think their family would feel ? what if the horses prevented that outcome , surely then they could be considered worthy maybe because they prevented the loss of a human life ?
judging by your comments on not wishing for your children to attend the same school as the OP also , I assume some of you are parents. Take a look at yourselves !! publicly slandereing and belittleing a minor , how would you feel if a supposedly responsible ADULT slandered your children through the internet.
everyone on here has differet opnions , accept that and move on , don't insult and belittle someone because they think differently . This is a terribly sensitive subject but you have not lived anyone elses life , only yours , the world is a big place , and your one life experience does not account to alot in the bigger picture of things , there is billions of people with different lives , families etc , all with a completely different story so do not assume you have the answers to what is right in this world .
Let people grieve for whomever and whatever they want , wether it be human or animal. I'm sorry about this but i just couldn't sit back and watch fuly grown women bully a minor for loving animals , its a bit sad really .
If you feel animals have no place to be equal to humans then thats fine !! noone will take that away from you , but if someone values animals on the same level thats fine too !!! why can't you accept that . I'm sorry through the hurt any of you have gone through losses of loved ones , but you should use their memories to do good and remember them by not argue and use as a weapon against one another and pubic forum about horses for goodness sake.
 
i just gave my personal view of the OPs oppinions. every one is intitled to feel as they do, i mean no one can help the way they feel.

it was the way OPs oppinions came accross that i (and i think a few others) might have found insulting.
 
of course everyone is entitled to their own opnions :) but there is no need to personally attack someone for the way they feel , I don't agree on alot of things but I accept them , but being nasty to someone for feeling something is uncalled for , its not as if she is slandereing the memory of a lost one or saying it is not valid . It is a sensitive subject and reading her posts she doesn't seem to be attempting to intentionally insult anyone , when it comes to sensitive issues like this it is sometimes better to bite our tongues . nobody is in the wrong for feeling how they feel , and nobody is saying their pain is greater than anyone elses ,as we are not them and therefore shal never know (:
 
feisty_filly said:
i just gave my personal view of the OPs oppinions. every one is intitled to feel as they do, i mean no one can help the way they feel.

it was the way OPs oppinions came accross that i (and i think a few others) might have found insulting.
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How have I been insulting? I've not disrespected your opinions.

I've found you all to be really arrogant and bully like in the way you've assumed things about me and dictated to me my feelings. I've not forced my view down your throat, shame it can't be said for some of you. I've remained really calm, bu you've really really been quite hurtful. I've apolgoised if I've hurt anyone unintentionally and I've been polite after you've all ripped at me and some others too.


Thanks Gemma xx
 
aylad said:
can I just say that I think this forum is the nastiest place ever you are all so far up your own backsides that you refuse to see others points of view and only agree with your own views and beliefs!
firstly you all go on about how accidents happen horses die in racing and how the horse is bred to do this job Erm well correct me if im wrong but I don't know of one horse that has gone up to its owner / trainer and said oh I lie racing can't wait till the big one this weekend! seriously these horses have no say in the matter no choice at all, I bet if we could speak to them and said do you want to race but you might die they wouldn't want to do it! we force them onto such a position for our own entertainment values is sick and wrong!!

secondly the whole a family members death means more than animals dying Erm you are completely wrong there you judge the OP saying she is young she wouldnt understand never known such loss well I have two of my grand parents have died and even worse I have suffered the worst possible thing to happen to a woman I lost my baby and that hurt like hell and still does the only thing that got me through it was my horse and I can tell you now that when my horse dies my grief will be the same as losing my baby as I love them both as much I've had my horse since he was 4 months old he's now 11 yrs old and is my best friend and my baby so when he goes it's gonna hurt like hell!! why do humans think they are so much more superior to animals! we are quite possibly the nastiest sickest animals on this planet! some humans disgust me!

rant over.
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I think you need to take off your rose-tinted glasses if you think this forum is the nastiest place you have ever been! I've been watching but not contributing much at all, the main thing here, is that some people give an opinion but cannot accept another. It's been a very interesting read.

If you just joined to post this then....pfffffft!
 
lassiesuca said:
How have I been insulting? I've not disrespected your opinions.

I've found you all to be really arrogant and bully like in the way you've assumed things about me and dictated to me my feelings. I've not forced my view down your throat, shame it can't be said for some of you. I've remained really calm, bu you've really really been quite hurtful. I've apolgoised if I've hurt anyone unintentionally and I've been polite after you've all ripped at me and some others too.


Thanks Gemma xx
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i do hope the second half of your post wasnt aimed at me as iv only posted on this thread twice! though reading back i agree that alot of members on this forum have been less than nice to you and you should not have been made feel bullied at all and im sorry you have been treated this way.
i usualy find this forum a very supportive kind and fun place to be but when it comes to controversial (sp?) issues people get bit heated.

i was upset by the reaction that some one could value there horse as much as a child or family member to be honest, its just my view though same as you have yours. :rolleyes:
 
feisty_filly said:
i do hope the second half of your post wasnt aimed at me as iv only posted on this thread twice! though reading back i agree that alot of members on this forum have been less than nice to you and you should not have been made feel bullied at all and im sorry you have been treated this way.
i usualy find this forum a very supportive kind and fun place to be but when it comes to controversial (sp?) issues people get bit heated.

i was upset by the reaction that some one could value there horse as much as a child or family member to be honest, its just my view though same as you have yours. :rolleyes:
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No it wasn't aimed at you, sorry for that misunderstanding, more of the general vibe which some members have given off (i.e. the ones who've been active in this discussion and then condemned myself and several others for their belief)

I don't think I've condemned anyone on this thread for not valuing their animal equally or more than a human, nor do I think that, what I've been hurt by is that people think I'm delusional because of it, if that makes sense?

I'm very sorry for your loss, and I don't doubt that the pain you felt was unbearable.

x
 
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