Photos: Is he a bit thin?

AShetlandBitMeOnce

AShetlandBitMeOnce

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Someone commented the other day that Jacob is looking a bit thin and I was wondering whether you guys would agree?

On the one hand I think he is a little lean and you can see some ribs at the right angle, but on the other I am aware that spring is coming (albeit slowly by the feels of it!). He isn't dropping off any more than this on his current feed (ad-lib hay, half scoop fibre cubes, scoop chaff, mug of micronised linseed and a glug of oil & pink powder x 2 feeds per day). He is schooled for 30 mins 3 x a week and goes for 2 x 1.5 hour-ish hacks with fast work. and he DOES NOT need any more energy!

I would like to keep him on the leaner side as I am acutely aware that horses aren't supposed to be this big, and the less stress on his legs the better - but he also needs to be getting enough nutrients and intake so that he can build some muscle, as he is very undermuscled at the moment.

I am just doing that new owner thing of being unsure what I think! :D (sorry about the photo quality, but they are all I have to hand).

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I find the 9 point scoring a bit easier to track changes against FWIW but agree that it's the best way to be objective. My TB was between a 2 and 3 when I got him and is now a 4-5 just lacking a bit more muscle. When you look at him he still looks lean because of his natural shape and work-in-progress muscling but if you properly score him he is about right really. you need to have a proper look and feel of the whole horse to do it well.
 
Rose came to me in this condition in Dec of last year and I fed her pretty much as you are doing but with the addition of unmollased beet and without the cubes. Her work load was pretty much the same too. She slowly put on muscle and condition over the months and by summer was looking fab. AS BP has said, I'd keep a close watch on the fit of the saddle as Rose had to have a new saddle and three changes to the fit in the first year. I also think it's tricky to tell from a photo, I like to get my fingers in but from what I can see, I'd not worry about upping the feed especially as the grass is already starting to come through.
 
I find the camera adds a bit of condition to a lean horse, so they don't look quite as thin as they are when you get your hands on them and walk around to look from all angles. So I suspect that he actually is underweight and he needs more muscle on his topline.
 
Thank you for the replies, I will have a good poke of him - but it's nice to be reassured that I don't need to be too concerned with putting a lot of weight on him right now. I will up the measures of his cubes and chaff slightly to add a little more without doing too much before spring perhaps. The quality of his grazing isn't brilliant with all this weather, but there are shoots coming through for sure as they aren't finishing the hay that is put out for them. I am having lessons and he is starting to work in a much better way than previously, so hopefully the topline and muscling will be incoming.

be positive said:
The ribs wouldn't be a concern for me but the lack of muscle behind the withers would be a bit more of a worry especially important when looking at the saddle fit, if it goes into the dips it will prevent them filling or be the cause of the muscle loss, if too wide it will cause other issues so something to keep an eye on.
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I have a saddle fitter coming out on the 15th of this month to address this side of things as I agree with what you have said! He hasn't lost muscle from what I can see as was mostly out of work before I bought him, but the dips are something which I will discuss with him for sure.


Shilasdair said:
Yes, he's a bit underweight. You should be able to feel his ribs, not see them (which I can in those photographs).
He is also lacking both condition and muscle.

Here's a great resource for condition scoring.
https://www.bluecross.org.uk/pet-advice/how-body-score-your-horse

Sorry, but you did ask.
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No apology needed, all opinions welcome - I will have a look at the link, thank you.
 
holeymoley said:
Actually,on further inspection,his wither is slightly nobly(for want of a better word). Unsure if he's in any work?
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He is coming into proper work just now really, and by that I mean a few schooling sessions and a couple hacks a week.. Before he was in sporadic work (mostly mooching/hacking) for a few months before that, and before that he wasn't doing anything. So the lack of muscle is due to lack of work, rather than he has dropped off and lost it. Saddle fitter is booked in for next week too.
 
Shilasdair said:
Yes, he's a bit underweight. You should be able to feel his ribs, not see them (which I can in those photographs).
.
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Says who? Lots of TBs have tightly muscled rib cages where you can see the ribs even though they are covered. Some well sprung horses of other breeds are the same.

We just aren't used to seeing ribs any more, I think the horse looks in great shape at this time of year. His metabolism will be well primed for dealing with the spring flush by being on the lean side now.

.
 
ycbm said:
Says who? Lots of TBs have tightly muscled rib cages where you can see the ribs even though they are covered. Some well sprung horses of other breeds are the same.

We just aren't used to seeing ribs any more, I think the horse looks in great shape at this time of year. His metabolism will be well primed for dealing with the spring flush by being on the lean side now.

.
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Says me. :p
'Tightly muscled'? I don't think so.

It might help if you read the Blue Cross condition scoring - 2 and 3 in particular.
 
Shilasdair said:
Says me. :p
'Tightly muscled'? I don't think so.

It might help if you read the Blue Cross condition scoring - 2 and 3 in particular.
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No it won't help at all. Unless it's a rescue case, you can't tell if a horse is too thin from a photo. You need to know and be able to feel the horse and know the keeper and what they are trying to achieve.

There would be a damned sight less laminitis if every horse went into spring with its ribs showing.
 
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He’s underweight for ideal. He’ll find it easier to gain topline with more condition. The ribs don’t concern me but the hollows behind the withers and lack of topline over the quarters is significant and shows that he’s not ‘just’ super fit. Mine often has ribs showing especially when moving- I’m not rib phobic!
 
I have no issue with seeing some light rib at this time of year. So weight wise no major concern.

He is however undermuscled and when grazing is poor I’d challenge that a scoop of chaff, half a scoop of fibre cubes and a mug of linseed is no where near sufficient for a horse of his size to build muscle (with the right work obviously)
 
They are not the best photos to judge from, especially as you've cut his bottom of in most of them, and the one which includes his bottom is taken at a funny angle and with dodgy light. It would be interesting to see a view taken from behind to see how much coverage there is on his hindquarters. But that said, he looks somewhere between a 2.5 and a 3 which is classed as being a healthy weight. The ribs only look to be very slightly visible at certain angles and if he wasn't clipped you wouldn't see them at all. He does look like he could do with more muscle over his topline though.
 
ihatework said:
I have no issue with seeing some light rib at this time of year. So weight wise no major concern.

He is however undermuscled and when grazing is poor I’d challenge that a scoop of chaff, half a scoop of fibre cubes and a mug of linseed is no where near sufficient for a horse of his size to build muscle (with the right work obviously)
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He has ad-lib hay also, but I’m happy to feed more if he’ll need it to muscle up with the work.

I think I’ll up his feed slightly to 1.5 scoops chaff and a full scoop of fibre cubes and then keep an eye on how he looks on it.
 
Another vote for the not too thin but seriously lacking muscle and top line. I would be worried that he isn't in as good condition generally as I would like, but not specifically that he needs more weight if that makes sense
 
AShetlandBitMeOnce said:
He has ad-lib hay also, but I’m happy to feed more if he’ll need it to muscle up with the work.

I think I’ll up his feed slightly to 1.5 scoops chaff and a full scoop of fibre cubes and then keep an eye on how he looks on it.
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Upping the chaff is going to make zero difference if hes on ad lib forage. Its just going to slow his eating down which he doesnt need right now. I'd change his feed. Hifibre cubes arent ideal either. Probably to pink mash and grass nuts as thats my preference for anything and negates the need for linseed and pink powder, and will do a better job. Anything like sugarbeet etc that will act as a carrier would work as well. Add up to 3 mugs of linseed to that. I'd also feed him a decent mineral balancer like equimins and I'd be adding a little bit extra vitamin e on top as well, give the time of year and how he looks.

They cant build muscle without protein and calories.
 
I
Leo Walker said:
Upping the chaff is going to make zero difference if hes on ad lib forage. Its just going to slow his eating down which he doesnt need right now. I'd change his feed. Hifibre cubes arent ideal either. Probably to pink mash and grass nuts as thats my preference for anything and negates the need for linseed and pink powder, and will do a better job. Anything like sugarbeet etc that will act as a carrier would work as well. Add up to 3 mugs of linseed to that. I'd also feed him a decent mineral balancer like equimins and I'd be adding a little bit extra vitamin e on top as well, give the time of year and how he looks.

They cant build muscle without protein and calories.
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Thank you for this. I have been trying to avoid feeds which require soaking as it’s not always me that feeds - often a lady at the yard will put his feed in and turn him out on a PM at the weekends - this is why I haven’t put him on grass nuts/Speedibeet.

I have Equimins in the post as we speak funnily enough and will look at Vit E.
 
I like to see ribs I grew up trained that one and half ribs easily visible was perfect .
I think your horse lacks some muscle but does not look in anyway thin enough to cause worry .
Is he getting enough protein and is he getting it from different sources .
Accurate condition scoring has to be done visually in front of the horse as a picture does not give you a compete view of whats going on .
you also need to know what the horse has doing work wise .
 
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