Photos: Is he a bit thin?

I wouldn’t be concerned as long as he isn’t losing weight drastically. Maintaining that condition at this stage of winter will be fine as as soon as the grass comes through he will fill out. I’d just focus the work to build muscle for now.

I am just trying to get the last few kg off my ID which is a struggle but I’m determined before spring comes round. I can feel rib but not see it and he’s got a little fat over his shoulder that needs to go.
 
Personally I think there are far too many overweight horses about that people fail to recognise a healthy weight if its not waddling it is thin. I know I am guilty as I have natives who are excellent doers but when I did have event horses mostly tb or warmblood by definition rather than breed ie coldblood x tb they were all not such good doers and it took a good eye to spot the difference between fit and well and too thin. If he is not finishing his hay there is no point in upping chaff or hay you would be better giving nutritionally more dense food with more calories than more bulk so grass nuts, alfalfa if he can tolerate it, linseed, sunflower oil, black sunflower seeds etc. He looks good but I wouldnt want him any lighter and would be considering whether the Spring grazing was going to do the trick or whether he should still have nutritionally dense feeds with protein and oil as their bases
 
I don't think he is thin but agree he is lacking muscle tone. At this stage of the winter I would not be changing his basic feed radically if you don't know how he is going to react to the spring grass. However, as others have said, I would want to be sure he was getting a good balancer and other supplements depending on what you think he may be lacking. If a horse were capable of living out 24/7 I would still give a balancer as nutritional values in pasture (and therefore local hay) can vary widely.
 
For me he is on the thin side of ok, definitely would not want him thinner. Personally in this case I would be increasing the hard food and working him 9 days out of 10, but I don't know if that is possible in your situation. I understand that he is new to you, but I think that next year you could think carefully about the clipping as to me it doesn't sound as if he is doing enough work to need to be clipped in this way - but up to you (I know you didn't ask about this but just trying to be helpful rather than critical). I would say watch his weight but nothing to worry about, and of course a lot depends on how much spring grass he will have access to and (regarding training) what you need him to do. I generally feel that with horses most things are best done slowly, whether it is changing their weight or getting them fit. If you can work him little and often, gradually increasing the time / intensity it will be great for him.
 
PS - regarding supplements I have always found it helpful to blood test and then agree a regime with the vet. I make blood tests 3 x per year for the horses and dogs, and it is very useful in giving a base line and monitoring on an ongoing basis.
 
Winters100 said:
PS - regarding supplements I have always found it helpful to blood test and then agree a regime with the vet. I make blood tests 3 x per year for the horses and dogs, and it is very useful in giving a base line and monitoring on an ongoing basis.
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Nutritional deficiencies are very unreliably picked up by blood tests, and vets have very limited nutritional training, so it wouldnt be my first point of call.
 
Rather than just how he looks right now, maybe the questions is - is he getting enough to eat?

Sorry I havent read all the replies or the details of his age and workload etc but the key principle has to be, is he getting enough fibre to keep his gut going, enough protein to build muscle and enough vits and minerals to sort the rest
 
As posted already, pics tend to make a horse look more filled than in real life.
I once tried to take pics of ribby skinny horses with winter coats and when reviewing the pics was shocked how the pics barely showed the ribs and straight bony topline i could definitely see in real life.

Yet even with jacobs clip, he’s not looking worryingly thin, even allowing for the lens fooling the eye. Maybe the comment you got was the observation he’s lost weight compared to a few months ago. Yet as others have stated, its almost spring..

When my mare had foal at foot suckling, someone said she was fat, which shocked me, because i could only just see ribs and was worried she was becoming too thin! Someone else said, shes fine and could do with being fat while suckling young. In reality, having been a broodmare she had a lowered belly making her look old and fat, and had a large hay belly due to me having her ad-lib at the time and on grass. The rest of her shape was normal.
 
I think he is a bit too slim for my liking. If I had just bought him, I would not be too worried as spring is coming anyway. If he were muscled and hunting fit then I would not be worried at all, as he would have muscle. He is not in hard work though, maybe medium work if the hacks are active, and has neither fat nor muscle.

If he already has ad lib hay, I would simply add N.A.F. Thrive to his diet (powder supplement). It seems to make them eat more, so more hay, and they seem to put more weight on for the amount of feed they eat.

I also like Equi Jewl supplement, made from rice bran oil, it helps them put weight on without too much fizz.

For just the addition of a dessertspoon of powder and a mug of pellets, I think you would have a hugely different picture.

That is all I would do with spring around the corner, and I find they only need a couple of months on Thrive anyway before the increased appetite has done the job, so both supplements would be withdrawn for when he is on good grazing.
 
Leo Walker said:
Nutritional deficiencies are very unreliably picked up by blood tests, and vets have very limited nutritional training, so it wouldnt be my first point of call.
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Yes, I agree in general, and probably I should have clarified that you need to be specific about exactly which tests you order. Maybe I am just lucky that my vet seems quite knowledgeable in this regard. We do not just run the 'standard' bloods, but also test for a number of other things, which is a bit of a nuisance as not all are available where we live so we have to use a lab in Germany for some of them. But actually it has over the years given interesting information, and as you monitor it over time you are able to see the effects of the feeding regime and supplements.
 
Winters100 said:
PS - regarding supplements I have always found it helpful to blood test and then agree a regime with the vet. I make blood tests 3 x per year for the horses and dogs, and it is very useful in giving a base line and monitoring on an ongoing basis.
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What do you test and how much does it cost? I have previously blood tested for iron, copper and selenium to confirm my supplements are working right, but my vets tell me that they have to use cow data to compare with because none is available for horses.


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Thank you everyone, I agree that if he was fully hunting fit I wouldn't be concerned about him having this shape, but as it is he could do with having a little more to support muscle growth and the increasing work as he does get fitter. I have some googling to do with all of the recommended supplements! Thrive sounds like a good one Red-1, and I like that I can fit it in with the spring grass coming through.

I think I will also add in a good balancer, and up the linseed. I have equimins in the post as we speak, and the pink powder that he is currently on already.

I have the saddler coming out on the 15th already as I was already thinking about what some have said re: the saddle and the dips behind his withers, and the vet is out mid-March to do second lot of vaccinations - he can give him a proper condition score then and I'll speak to him about a blood test potentially.

I was also up late last night dismantling a couple of pallets with the intention of making a hay box for his stable this weekend, then he doesn't have to fuss about with a haynet and he can get more eaten. He won't eat it if I put it on the floor, as he always things it looks like an inviting place to take a dump!
 
I don’t like my horse to ‘slim’ down in winter as it will effect the fit of the saddle. Saying that, it is just personal choice. Your horse is not a cob who tend to be good doers so his food needs to based on level of work and availability of grass and hay. I would say he would benefit from some Keyflow Keyplus for topline. It doesn’t heat up your horse but supports muscle and topline development (sorry huge fan of Keyplus)
 
if going down the ricebran route there is also Omega Rice to consider, which is ricebran and linseed combined in little pellets. Mine has done well on that this winter and it suits me to have the 2 in 1 to reduce the number of bins I need ;) Plus mine was not a fan of the texture of lots of micronised linseed.
 
You didn't mention in your post whether you'd had his teeth checked recently?
If his teeth are an issue, he may not be chewing properly and gaining all of the nutrients from his hay, also it could be a reason he's not eating all of his hay?
If you haven't already done so, have his teeth checked by someone qualified, keep up to date with worming and he should be great in the spring.
BTW - I wish mine looked more like yours, I struggle to get them lean :)
 
Mudfukkle said:
You didn't mention in your post whether you'd had his teeth checked recently?
If his teeth are an issue, he may not be chewing properly and gaining all of the nutrients from his hay, also it could be a reason he's not eating all of his hay?
If you haven't already done so, have his teeth checked by someone qualified, keep up to date with worming and he should be great in the spring.
BTW - I wish mine looked more like yours, I struggle to get them lean :)
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He had his teeth done a couple of weeks ago by a fab equine dentist and he was wormed a couple of days after that, so I have this part covered :) He will be moving into a new field soon, so will get him worm counted before he is due his next lot.
 
His weight wouldn't worry me at this time of year as spring and a flush of grass is just around the corner. As others have said though he is lacking muscle and I agree that checking your saddle fit if a good starting point. Quality protein and correct work should help with his topline. One of my horses is a big 17.3 warmblood who was always rather rangy and he is not a gannet (like all my others) and does not seem to like eating a lot of hay / haylage. Last winter I swapped him onto Saracens Show Improver Cubes which contain Equijewel instead of his slow release cubes. He gets a scoop three times a day and is now starting to look more like the dressage horse that he is.
 
This post is going to be very subjective to those who view it. For me I have laminitis fear so I'd always choose to see a horse leaner rather than chubbier. Thats because of my external circumstances. I have excellent grazing which gives horses a wobble so I always like to see them lean to keep them safe. I dont think there's a right/wrong aswer if he's fit and healthy.
 
He looks well. He is on the leaner side but I think most vets would tell you that is how he should be. It may be that more correct work would build up his muscle tone over the top line so he appears to fill out but that is not a fat/thin issue. he has a very healthy shine to his coat and as long as he is bright and happy and not subdued, he is fine. Take a look at many fit racehorses/eventers/hunters and you will see their ribs and often a lack of a rounded topline but they are fit healthy and performing at their optimum. No point lugging extra weight around when you are performing.
 
Just read some more posts. You can't muscle him up by feeding extra or supplements, only work (combined with proper nutrition for any increased work of course) can do that. You can however make him fatter by feeding more.... I think most of us prefer them looking a bit rounder but that isn't necessarily healthier.
 
ycbm said:
What do you test and how much does it cost? I have previously blood tested for iron, copper and selenium to confirm my supplements are working right, but my vets tell me that they have to use cow data to compare with because none is available for horses.


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I will bring the results from the yard office tomorrow and will write you - they are quite extensive and I need to translate them. But I do know that one of the main ones is selenium, which is a common deficiency in the area where we are, because as I understand it is found in grass roots and if the area does not have a lot then it is easy for horses to be lacking. This is one of the tests that we have to use the German lab for, but I have never heard of horse norms not being available. Interestingly I am told that it is not an option to supplement all horses, as an excess is also dangerous. I think the costs are about 150 euro per horse including the vet coming to take the blood, but of course vet care is much cheaper where we are, and I am not sure if he actually does take anything for his time as he lives nearby and often comes to just check the horses without charge.
 
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