pics of Ellen Whitaker riding at home, in H&H this week...

[kerilli]

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Kerilli - I am very impressed you always manage to find an interesting topic which prompts loads of discussion!

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thanks, and there was me quivering thinking "everyone's going to be thinking i'm an arrogant cow who thinks i'm better than EW"!
too much time mucking out stables with my bored little mind whizzing around thinking up stuff, obviously!

 

[DuckToller]

A few weeks ago I spotted a youngster hacking out from a local yard. She was riding a very smart new pony, and she was looking very pleased with herself because smart new pony's head was being held in ever so tightly by - guess what? - draw reins.

Why? Because everyone else uses them, I suppose. I was sad to see it, because she is only 13/14, and isn't that experienced, so she shouldn't be allowed near any gadgets like that, IMO. And this is why it is not a great idea to show top show jumpers in magazines using them because kids and others with no idea what they are doing will use them. I imagine smart new pony's neck must have been aching by the time he had finished the hack

 

[jumptoit]

Personally I thought it gave off the wrong impression - it was one of the first things I noticed, I don't mind anyone using them correctly as a training aid but when the are either used incorrectly or constantly I don't think it's right tbh. I'm not saying EW uses them all the time, just that that was the impression the photos gave.

 

[gabanna]

dont come on here that often, but there seem to be certain riders who are 'in', and others who never will be, whatever they do. i must confess i tend to read articles, and not always study the pics in as much depth as some of you, but do find the whole tone very sanctimonious ...... are those of you who are so horrified by this such perfect horsewomen that you are in a position to be so critical?
it seems to be a huge thing that show jumpers are governed by the money aspect. unfortunately, for many , it is a living, not a hobby, so yes, short cuts may well be taken, but would the horses perform at that level so consistantly, and for so long in most cases, if they were seriously being abused or in great discomfort?
rant over!!!

 

[rebmw]

I think a lot of people need to re read the OP.

This is not eventers v showjumpers.

It is meerly a discussion on how one of our leading riders is happy to be photographed riding in draw reins incorrectly, ie draw rein is being used tighter than snaffle rein.

Whether or not you agree in using draw reins is not the debate. Like most things, they have a function when used correctly. But going back to the post subject, the person in this article, is not setting a good example by using them incorrectly which is disappointing. And unfortunately whether you are EW or another of our top riders, you will be judged by this when pictures like these are there for everyone to see.

 

[kerilli]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of people need to re read the OP.

This is not eventers v showjumpers.

It is meerly a discussion on how one of our leading riders is happy to be photographed riding in draw reins incorrectly, ie draw rein is being used tighter than snaffle rein.

Whether or not you agree in using draw reins is not the debate. Like most things, they have a function when used correctly. But going back to the post subject, the person in this article, is not setting a good example by using them incorrectly which is disappointing. And unfortunately whether you are EW or another of our top riders, you will be judged by this when pictures like these are there for everyone to see.

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rebmw, that's exactly it, THANKYOU.

 

[Kentisheventer]

I didnt used to use draw reins, and over the summer was encouraged to use them occasionally to help with this, that and t'other.

However, i was told, not that i did it, time and time again not to have the draw reins tight... they are a TRAINING AID- ie something to help enforce your aids not to act as the actual aid itself!

IMO draw reins should not be widely encouraged unless taught how to use them... i see far too many people using them because it pins their horses head in and looks 'pretty'.

Even though i sometimes do use draw reins, i wouldn't (i know contradictory as im talking about them now!) like to be seen or associated with them, simply because so many people use them in such a harsh way! I will be honest and say i dread to think of what they do when cameras arent there!

 

[Santa_Claus]

echo those that say nothing personal to Ellen but I also was always taught that running reins (actual draw reins are completely different normally running from the D rings at the top of the saddle through the bit and back to the hand although several variations!) should only come into action (eg contact taken on running rein rather than snaffle rein) when the horse raises its head and hollows as an evasion. By having the running rein tighter you are placing a very large amount of constant pressure on the bit far in excess of the standard rein.

I am actually very wary of putting running reins on most horses, many people put them on skitttish horses to prevent them rearing but infact it can in some circumstances make them worse. to put their head between their knees when rearing is easier than putting their head up and if they twig on to this they will go up to evade the running rein! I have though used running reins and would use them again but only in very certain circumstances.

Oh and also jumping in running reins should be done on penalty of death IMHO as it is one of the most dangerous things you can do. I have seen a horse over a small cross get its legs tangled sending itself and rider flying.

 

[kerilli]

i thought running reins went from the top of the girth on either side, to the bit and back to withers, not between the legs to the girth. that's the way they're illustrated in the BE rulebook too.
i totally agree about jumping in them, i've only seen someone try to jump in draw reins once, v good trainer/rider on v good horse, both hit the deck first time over a 2' upright.
not something i would EVER try...

 

[flyingfeet]

I think I would like to point out to the forum that there isn't a single female show jumper in favour here.

Ellen always gets a bad rap here, and I cannot help thinking its a bunch of b*tchy horsey women knocking the young, pretty girl that was lucky enough to be born with a name.

However I doubt her life is all roses and calling her "spoilt" is unfair, there are richer people with bigger wagons and more expensive horses. I doubt she actually earns that much when you tot everything up!

 

[gw171093]

When i was at scope, i saw a junior on a pony, warming up with me in draw reins through ONLY the bottom ring of a pelham, and the reins only on that ring too.
The dad was going make them tighter, make them tighter give it a sock in the teeth and the poor pony was terrified, it had never been taught anything, i felt so sorry for it.
Also I have no problem with her riding in draw reins. I actually think she is very nice to her horses. At HOYS, when she won sj of the year, she ran up to Ocolado and gave him a MASSIVE hug. Give the poor girl a break
And sorry, I dont want to create an argument

Although i dont really agree with draw reins, so many people use them so why should she be the only one noticed! Also if you saw the prizegivings at HOYS, she didnt comein in draw reins where as several others did.

 

[jess_asterix]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would like to point out to the forum that there isn't a single female show jumper in favour here.

Ellen always gets a bad rap here, and I cannot help thinking its a bunch of b*tchy horsey women knocking the young, pretty girl that was lucky enough to be born with a name.

However I doubt her life is all roses and calling her "spoilt" is unfair, there are richer people with bigger wagons and more expensive horses. I doubt she actually earns that much when you tot everything up!

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Totally agree

Well said.

 

[christinao]

when you tack up with draw reins for a top showjumper jumper you put them through the neckstrap of the martingale so they cannot get their front feet caught in them.
and I do think it is a bit unfortunate that Ellen did a phot shoot wearing them but as long as the horse is not in pain surely it is just a mattter or opinion?
My ponyclub teacher told me that putting draw reins between the front legs was a show jumper invention and they should really go from hand to bit to girth tab at the sides or saddle D's.

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would like to point out to the forum that there isn't a single female show jumper in favour here.

Ellen always gets a bad rap here, and I cannot help thinking its a bunch of b*tchy horsey women knocking the young, pretty girl that was lucky enough to be born with a name.

However I doubt her life is all roses and calling her "spoilt" is unfair, there are richer people with bigger wagons and more expensive horses. I doubt she actually earns that much when you tot everything up!

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Yep - Laura Renwick is the other successful SJ female and she gets equally as negative press on here as Ellen.

 

[Kentisheventer]

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Ellen always gets a bad rap here, and I cannot help thinking its a bunch of b*tchy horsey women knocking the young, pretty girl that was lucky enough to be born with a name.

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im not a female SJer... but perhaps we're just saying we dont like what we see- im sure people would say it about a 12.2 pony hacking if it looked the same... except shes giving out a bad message aswell!

 

[SusieT]

tbh I think it's disgusting and would no matter who was riding the horse. It's classic how not to ride with draw reins and I hope I'm not the only one complaining to H+H as this portrays a bad image

 

[flyingfeet]

Your average 12.2hh pony out hacking is not a psychotic neurotic show jumper!

I don't use draw reins personally, but if I had a horse nuts enough to jump a 7ft puissance wall, I think I'd use them if needed!!!

Would be fair to say show jumpers often cannot do other disciplines as they are quite nuts, but need to be.

 

[flyingfeet]

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tbh I think it's disgusting and would no matter who was riding the horse. It's classic how not to ride with draw reins and I hope I'm not the only one complaining to H+H as this portrays a bad image

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Perhaps you could complain about the silly dressage riders without proper hats, or crazy huntsman without proper hats, oh and that picture of the kid out hunting without a saddle.... so many complaints so little time

It is just the plain lack of understanding here - people crazy horses, think shutterfly, is it better to fight with them or use draw reins so you don't pull away on their mouth or cause them to rear

 

[diggerbez]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would like to point out to the forum that there isn't a single female show jumper in favour here.

Ellen always gets a bad rap here, and I cannot help thinking its a bunch of b*tchy horsey women knocking the young, pretty girl that was lucky enough to be born with a name.

However I doubt her life is all roses and calling her "spoilt" is unfair, there are richer people with bigger wagons and more expensive horses. I doubt she actually earns that much when you tot everything up!

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whilst there has been some criticism of EW as a person/ horsewoman etc etc the OP wasn't really about her per se- or thats the impression i got?

i thought it was about misuse of draw reins in general (i.e. having the draw rein tighter than the snaffle rein). FWIW i haven't seen the pictures but think its maybe a bit naive to be pictured using a gadget in this way even if it is used in terms of 'normal' training. EW's success really should speak for itself- if she uses draw reins in an 'incorrect' way then it clearly doesn't affect her horses- she wins numerous big classes with them. the concern i have is that other much less experienced riders will try to 'copy' her. but i have this concern generally really- how many people are seen eventing in a 'trendy' bit/noseband combination that is unnecessary?
my own opinion of EW....well i never liked her if i'm honest but i have to say my opinion changed at HOYS. she seemed genuinely happy and pleased with her horses' performances and i thought her riding of Ladina in the puissance was inspiring to someone who has ridden a similarly temperamental horse. i think sometimes that we forget she is young and the name may give opportinity but it also creates great expectations...this must be difficult to deal with at times

 

[Santa_Claus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draw_reins_and_running_reins

Wiki actually gives the best description of the difference (saying that for 'english' disciplines the names are interchanged

) between running and draw reins. Unfortunately lacking in decent pics!

 

[SusieT]

[ QUOTE ]
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tbh I think it's disgusting and would no matter who was riding the horse. It's classic how not to ride with draw reins and I hope I'm not the only one complaining to H+H as this portrays a bad image

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Perhaps you could complain about the silly dressage riders without proper hats, or crazy huntsman without proper hats, oh and that picture of the kid out hunting without a saddle.... so many complaints so little time

It is just the plain lack of understanding here - people crazy horses, think shutterfly, is it better to fight with them or use draw reins so you don't pull away on their mouth or cause them to rear

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yes-I find them irritating but tend to not really care what silly things people put on themselves,
It's better to train them in the first place...

 

[Kentisheventer]

[ QUOTE ]
Your average 12.2hh pony out hacking is not a psychotic neurotic show jumper!

I don't use draw reins personally, but if I had a horse nuts enough to jump a 7ft puissance wall, I think I'd use them if needed!!!

Would be fair to say show jumpers often cannot do other disciplines as they are quite nuts, but need to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

so theyre used to restrain the horse!?

 

[jumptoit]

Sorry please can you clarify are running reins, a market harborough - I'm confused?

 

[Santa_Claus]

Running reins are what we call draw reins

Draw reins (according to what I was always taught) go to the D's at top of the saddle so infact encourage the horse to lift the head rather than lower like running reins. Market harborough is basically a hybrid of running reins...

*goes off in search of some pics*

 

[jumptoit]

Thank You

 

[Flame_]

According to the BHS, draw reins go from the girth between the horse's legs, through the bit rings to the riders hands. Running reins go from the girth straps, through the bit rings to the riders hands. I don't know what you're on about, LOL.

Yep, Ellen gets slated 'cause everyone's so jealous that she needs draw reins to ride her horse.

 

[teapot]

I thought the OP was about a pro who's looked up to by numerous kids in a photo of a national and respected magazine mis-using a gadget/training aid that can have a serious impact when used incorrectly?

Or have I missed something?

 

[kirstyhen]

Whereas I was taught Draw Reins go between the horses' front legs, or from the girth buckle, in fact they can go from any fixed point, through the reins and to the riders hands and have the effect of 'drawing' the head in.
Whereas Running Reins go from the riders hands, through the bit rings, and over the horses head in one 'running' loop and have the effect of lifting the bit in the mouth and raising the head. Often used out hunting instead of a stronger bit.

 

[Santa_Claus]

ok now i'm just thoroughly confused LOL (doesn't take much!)

Put it down to sleep deprivation but I was convinced was other way round lol

 

[crabbymare]

Perhaps next time the magazine sends a photographer along EW should be asked to shorten the snaffle rein for the pictures, would save a lot of bad comments and HHO would save on server space