picture challenge.....overbent vs correct....Dressage 101 for amateurs

Oo found another that someone can critique (please ignore me, was concentrating on him)

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For me, Cosmo Sams horse shows a lovely "less experienced" outline. It's longer and lower than the ideal but you've got to consider that the kind of outline displayed by the Spanish Riding School isnt seen until much later in a horse's training.

We've been seeing a lot of interesting stuff in terms of dressage marking at the lower levels recently. Some judges have started to penalise for the over bending often seen with rollkur techniques (and yet this doesnt seem to be penalised at GP which is... interesting). Other judges seem to be expecting a horse to be working more up than I believe is right for the age. We were out with a 6 year old working at novice level a few weeks ago and the judge mentioned on the test paper that his poll wasnt the highest point. Well no, it wasn't, he's 6 years old....

So yes for me, the outline goes from being longer and lower (where the break is usually over the neck as Cosmo Sams George shows) to being higher and more upright showing a higher degree of self carriage (such as is shown in the picture of Hugin the spotty)

One comment about that piccy... that horse's back end might as well be in another continent, he's too disengaged over his back for my liking and again, I'd want him higher in the poll.
 
that makes a lot of sense, thanks

Ponio in my pics of me riding - had schooling age of a 4/5 yr old but yet was 10 (just dont ask, very long story). Spent more time on his hind quarters rather than his front end and did have days when he went like this (soz for rubbish quality, tis a vid still of a rubbishy vid)

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Just find the whole area very very interesting and we could bring in the "outline comes from behind" debate which I've had drummed into me for years. Whereas you still see people fiddling with the front end only
 
I'm not sure if this even belongs here
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but hey ho!

This was taken about 7 years ago, errrr over bent ?
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Comments welcome
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Oooh there seem to be quite a few people in this thread that really know what they are tlking about, what do you think about how my two lads corrective wise?
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Flippin heck....I posted late last night & haven't had a chance to get on all day -

thanks a million folks for all the brilliant pics & comments - am going to go and take some pics in the next few days to show eactly what I mean
I reckon though by what you are all saying is that as a 5 yo my boy is not really over bent but is on the way to acheiving what I should be looking for, his overall head/neck position should gradually come up as we try to get to true self-carraige - when I get that 'eureka' moment right now I have a very light contact & he feels (probably for about 6 or 7 strides only) like he is totally stepping through & carrying himself really well....his neck does seem to be a lot further away from me than most of the more advanced pics on here but his chin is not on his chest if you know what I mean....
Have to run to catch a train but will be on for a much more detailed trawl when I get back from my lesson tonight
Thanks again
 
Christ Weezy, when you say you'd be happy with this, I do hope you mean just the horse & not the rider!!! Coincidentally, my instructor was explaining a break in the neck to me last week (as a common sportsman problem) & here is the best example you could ever hope for!!! The head is not exactly sitting on the shoulders, is it..?
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