Pin firing .... no negative comments please

[SLICONNEMARA]

Hi, I've just recently had my mares legs pin fired because her check ligament went and she was unable to stand without support ... even though people say it's barbaric I think it wasn't too bad minumal bloody and practically no discomfort as happy to dig in her bed and kick the door . horse is happy and sound 5 days after ...

But has anyone info on what to expect after the healing ?? Google is a bit blank as people don't agree with it . I know polo ponies and racers have it done but will she be able to jump again and constantly live out . Also will I be able to affiliate her now she's been fired??

She is always going to be at the home so never to be sold

 

[ycbm]

I think that she now needs turning away for six months to a year, bringing slowly and carefully back into work and seeing how much she'll stand up to with a gradual increase in what you ask of her.

No-one can answer what she will then be capable of. What will be, will be.

 

[be positive]

I think that she now needs turning away for six months to a year, bringing slowly and carefully back into work and seeing how much she'll stand up to with a gradual increase in what you ask of her.

No-one can answer what she will then be capable of. What will be, will be.

This, it is not going to make her sound by itself it is the rest and rehab that are going to be the deciding factor in what she can go on to do, I had a racehorse come in just after being bar fired, he had about 8 weeks box rest with daily walking followed by just over 6 months being turned out 24/7 then a very careful steady rehab to strengthen him up before he went back to full work, he stayed sound point to pointing and then "retired" to be a RC all rounder, I would have preferred that the firing had not been done but he was not mine so not my decision.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

In my youth (a rather long time ago LOL) it was commonplace to see fired horses out hunting all the time. And it saved many a good horse too.........

I think you need to ask your vet and farrier what you should expect TBH and take things from there. What you really need is a treatment plan and "return to work" regime and my feeling is that turnout alone isn't going to achieve that, you need some idea of what you should be doing, when, and how.

Good luck! Its not always easy to do something radical, but you've obviously thought the thing through and acted in your horse's best interests. Hope all goes well.

 

[SLICONNEMARA]

Thank you . I'm only 1 week into healing and we can start hand walking in another 3 weeks or so

I know it's a long way off riding or turn out atm but I need information to decide if I keep her on livery or leave her out to have a foal and live her life as our garden ornament lol

Do bjsa or bs allow horses that are fired to affiliate or will I be now left to unaffiliated. I've tried calling bsja and someone said they would call me back which I did chase up with emails but no one has said yes or no

 

[ycbm]

In my youth (a rather long time ago LOL) it was commonplace to see fired horses out hunting all the time. And it saved many a good horse too.........

The current consensus of opinion, I think, is that it is the rest that saves them, but that it's far easier to persuade an owner to rest for long enough when the horse has burnt legs than when it looks fine from the outside.

Current veterinary advice, I believe, is that it should be done only when all else, including turning away for an extended period, has failed.

 

[ycbm]

Thank you . I'm only 1 week into healing and we can start hand walking in another 3 weeks or so

I know it's a long way off riding or turn out atm but I need information to decide if I keep her on livery or leave her out to have a foal and live her life as our garden ornament lol

Do bjsa or bs allow horses that are fired to affiliate or will I be now left to unaffiliated. I've tried calling bsja and someone said they would call me back which I did chase up with emails but no one has said yes or no

Was there a known one-off accident or are you considering breeding from a mare who did not stand up to work? That doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Since the horse will need to be turned away for an extended period I don't understand the dilemma about keeping her in livery or at home?

 

[SpringArising]

I know it's a long way off riding or turn out atm but I need information to decide if I keep her on livery or leave her out to have a foal

What's your reason for wanting to breed from her? Also why put extra strain on already questionable legs?

 

[Cortez]

I thought firing (pin or bar) was illegal? It certainly is here in Ireland.

 

[ester]

no not illegal, though not all vets will do it.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Your mare has gone from being unable to stand, due to the pulled check ligament, to being sound 5 days after firing?

Wow.

 

[ester]

I guess maybe both legs hurt now

 

[TheMule]

Shocking that in this day and age people still resort to barbaric treatments.
There are plenty of ways to support check ligament healing. Putting causitc chemicals on the skin is not one of them. Poor horse.

 

[ycbm]

Shocking that in this day and age people still resort to barbaric treatments.
There are plenty of ways to support check ligament healing. Putting causitc chemicals on the skin is not one of them. Poor horse.

It wasn't putting caustic chemicals on the skin, it was putting red hot pins straight into the tendon/ligament. That's what pin firing is.


OP can we see some pictures, I'd be very interested.

 

[fairyclare]

even though people say it's barbaric I think it wasn't too bad minumal bloody and practically no discomfort as happy to dig in her bed and kick the door . horse is happy and sound 5 days after ...

I'd say that digging the bed and kicking the door is pain related!
It wasn't too bad for you, it wasn't you that had been pin fired.

Check ligaments that are so badly damaged that the horse can't stand don't repair in 5days post pin firing!
Poor mare sounds like she is now lame on both legs.

 

[SLICONNEMARA]

The mare is not lame and now can stand . From scans to treatment I had 1 week to make my mind up and I thought it was going be horrific but it's actually better than any operation . She's not in pain and not on pain relief . Happy eating for England.

She kicks the door for food and has always digs her bed so that's normal behaviour.

She has 6 weeks off to reduce swelling before the scans were able to be done when she had to be bandaged 24/7 as leg couldn't take the weight . But if she never had this procedure she wouldn't really live a normal life as she has long thin legs and even the vet said it's the main cause of this injury .

I want to breed from her because she's a delightful mare and a valued member of the family plus her breeding is impeccable .

Now I know alot of people are against this but this is why it's so hard to find correct information regarding it and asked on here for advice but as usual I've been given the same numb headed answer it's cruel blah blah blah and it's not cruel and my horse isn't in any distress or pain and is happy for you to touch her legs and pick out her feet

 

[sjp1]

Well, I don't know. I owned an ex racer who had been both bar fired and blistered. He was sound after this but I owned him several years after this had happened to him.

I do however think that it is the time off that is required that is instrumental in the healing. Every race horse owner/trainer will understand that a year off firing and blistering is necessary. Whether a year off in the field without pin or bar firing and blistering would yield the same results I am not sure - I think probably it would. My own boy did two tendon injuries within two years, he was in medium work and not a TB race horse - his problem was navicular which of course causes tendon injuries. He came sound after the first tendon injury in 9 months of field rest. Had I realised that the heel pain/navicular was the issue at the time he would never have got the second tendon injury or even the first - however it didn't occur to the vets and I had not gathered enough information at the time to realise the cause. In hindsight, I should have - a horse in medium work should never sustain tendon injuries if all was well in the foot - you live and learn!

But I do understand that its only experience of different injuries that causes you to think, research and not always be guided by your vets, no matter how experienced they are - certainly I now research everything myself rather than relying on my vets - had I done this previously, my horse would probably have certainly not had the tendon issues he had.

 

[SLICONNEMARA]

Shocking that in this day and age people still resort to barbaric treatments.
There are plenty of ways to support check ligament healing. Putting causitc chemicals on the skin is not one of them. Poor horse.

It's don't with a hot pink while the horse is sedated . There's no chemicals on her legs what so ever .

 

[Tiddlypom]

She can stand, therefore is no longer lame?

Wonderful.

 

[SLICONNEMARA]

Well, I don't know. I owned an ex racer who had been both bar fired and blistered. He was sound after this but I owned him several years after this had happened to him.

I do however think that it is the time off that is required that is instrumental in the healing. Every race horse owner/trainer will understand that a year off firing and blistering is necessary. Whether a year off in the field without pin or bar firing and blistering would yield the same results I am not sure - I think probably it would.

Thank you sjp1 . I'm sorry to hear of the navicular . This helps me alot as she's on full livery atm but if she needs a year off she can go home to the farm

 

[sjp1]

Well, I don't know. I owned an ex racer who had been both bar fired and blistered. He was sound after this but I owned him several years after this had happened to him.

I do however think that it is the time off that is required that is instrumental in the healing. Every race horse owner/trainer will understand that a year off firing and blistering is necessary. Whether a year off in the field without pin or bar firing and blistering would yield the same results I am not sure - I think probably it would.

Thank you sjp1 . I'm sorry to hear of the navicular . This helps me alot as she's on full livery atm but if she needs a year off she can go home to the farm

If she can go home to the farm, then thats what I would do if I were you, let her go out and be a horse, take her shoes off if she has them on and let her recover.

In a year, she will be sound, and hopefully her feet will have organised themselves, the tendon will have settled and if you are only breeding from her or just hacking and you are happy to control the sugars she receives she will be a different horse.

Fingers crossed for her

 

[Cortez]

She will need a year off. It is the year off that results in any improvements that the firing is supposed to make. It's called "sympathetic injury/healing" and has been throughly disproven as a therepeutic technique. There is a reason why you can't find any information: BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK AND IS BARBARIC. It is illegal here, and in most of europe I think. And breeding from a lame mare with "thin legs" is madness, no matter how "lovely" you may think she is. If you think that shoving a red hot needle into horses legs (in a practice which has been proven ineffective) is "not cruel" then I really can't think of anything to discuss with you.

 

[ycbm]

she has long thin legs and even the vet said it's the main cause of this injury .

I want to breed from her because she's a delightful mare and a valued member of the family plus her breeding is impeccable .

Oh dear oh dear I so hope that you are a half term troll.

Because if not, you have a crippled mare which the vet has told you is due to conformational defects and you plan to breed from her. Surely you cannot be that daft?

Can we have a photo of your lovely mare and the pin firing please?

 

[ycbm]

It's done with a hot pins while the horse is sedated . There's no chemicals on her legs what so ever .

Cos of course burning right into the ligament with a red hot pin is SO much more humane than burning just the skin with a chemical

 

[sjp1]

YBCM I do think thats a bit harsh TBH.

People come onto forums to learn - it is only from experience that you learn. Had I listened to my own vets after my happy hacker had two tendon injuries, he would probably have been PTS. Its only by going onto forums like this one that you learn from other peoples experiences - in my case I suspected navicular and was right - but I had to push my very experienced equine vets to x ray and nerve block for this.

If I hadn't had horses all my life and thought that equine vets were the be all and the end all, I would probably be no further forward - so isn't it better to try to help people rather than alienate them?

 

[ycbm]

YBCM I do think thats a bit harsh TBH.

People come onto forums to learn - it is only from experience that you learn. Had I listened to my own vets after my happy hacker had two tendon injuries, he would probably have been PTS. Its only by going onto forums like this one that you learn from other peoples experiences - in my case I suspected navicular and was right - but I had to push my very experienced equine vets to x ray and nerve block for this.

If I hadn't had horses all my life and thought that equine vets were the be all and the end all, I would probably be no further forward - so isn't it better to try to help people rather than alienate them?

Well I'm open to the explanation of how you think anyone can help someone who has already pin fired their horse (aside from telling her to turn it away for an extended period, which I have) and who plans to breed from a mare with a catastrophic check ligament injury (she couldn't stand and firing is a treatment of last resort) which the vet has advised her is a result of her conformation.

Fire away, (pun intended). I'm all ears.

 

[ester]

Has your vet not advised you on the recovery/rest plan?

 

[Cortez]

I'm not going to help anyone who uses an illegal (in my country, and others, but apparently not in yours...), ineffective and inhumane treatment. The time to be helpful was before the poor horse was subjected to this.

 

[ycbm]

I'm not going to help anyone who uses an illegal (in my country, and others, but apparently not in yours...), ineffective and inhumane treatment. The time to be helpful was before the poor horse was subjected to this.

I'm gobsmacked to find that the BEVA has stepped back from a complete condemnation of this treatment in the UK, Cortez. You're ahead of us, I hope we catch you up.

 

[Magnetic Sparrow]

I have no expertise in this area, but am interested. There seems to be a school of thought that says by effectively laming the horse by firing or blistering it forces the animal to rest properly while it is acclimatising to the extended turnout. I've certainly had my blood run cold watching an injured horse hooning around when it should have been pottering gently.