Pirelli, where does it sit with breaking a horse?

[Kayles]

Hello I have a rising 4 year old who was unspoilt when I took her off previous owners hands. I want to be careful with her but still engage her inquisitive social self. 3 months from only halter trained, she now lunges in tack easily, loads, lifts all four feet and we've been concentrating on the 7 games of Pirelli. She is very respectful and careful of her feet. The question I'd like assistance with please is at what point do I focus on backing- Can you do the 7 games for too long? Most the time I am on my own when I work her. We have a half an hour groundwork lesson with a fantastic instructor once a week. My instructor has suggested many things to do with her and the plan currently seems like it could take the whole of the summer but she'd be a groundwork master and I value my instructors opinion I'm aware however that we've tops got ten weeks of daylight and I think I want her to be hacked out with a walking assistant (not lead) by the end of the summer as my goal. Is this a realistic goal given the fact I'm focussing on parelli? I'm thinking that because of her age now is the time to break her to ride. Currently working with her 3 times a week which seems to suit her. We start Long reining next week. Any tips please to help our journey this summer?

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Parelli is totally different to other methods, which your parelli instructor won't support. Because parelli is a totally different way of training, if you were to go about breaking in the conventional way you'd essentially be teaching the horse 2 different methods at once, which could be very confusing for the horse. If you must use the parelli method (I don't advise it) then I'd guess it's best to stick with just that and accept you won't be riding your horse until next year.

One thing to be aware of with the parelli method is that if your horse has been trained to this it's possible he won't have a clue how to respond to people who don't use this method, which is most people. Meaning you're limiting the number of people who can handle/ride him easily. Which is fine if you intend to keep him for life, but should you be run over by a bus one day/wish to sell for some reason, he will be a horse who for most people will need total retraining, which isn't something that will increase his value or help him find a good/suitable home.

 

[Kayles]

Lol to the getting hit by a bus comment I can think of far slower and more painful ways to go! Seriously appreciate your thoughts on this though, I've gone with Pirelli because it's what my instructor recommended. I'm glad I'm not crazy though I thought my question was a silly question to ask. We are getting on great with the method though so can you please elaborate on what aspects of breaking that the horse will confuse with the parelli methods (so I can address these with my instructor) we are doing level 1 stuff currently. Thankyou for your reply.

 

[Kayles]

Also yeah she's a keeper for life 😁 Got a daughter who's well into the horsey life so I not worry about selling her ever

 

[Tiddlypom]

I have done some Parelli handling in the past, Games 1 to 3?, before the whole shabooble got crazy and turned into the money making behemoth that it is now. I found it very useful with a difficult loader, for instance.

You will definitely confuse your horse if you mix and match conventional and Parelli methods. Tbh I'd ditch further Parelli now, and go conventional.

Be warned, there are very few Parelli followers on HHO, so this forum is not the place to ask for advice on using the method.

 

[tallyho!]

I think what Parelli has done is re-label the most basic classical/traditional training and rendered it's followers myopic.

The friendly game = basic teaching to respect your space. Use any stick or rope.
The porcupine = move away from pressure. You can use your fingers or any stick will do.
The driving game = basic teaching to go forward, a lead rope, a lungeline and lunge whip will do.
The yoyo = you could teach a horse to back up and come forward using your voice and your hand/crop
Circling game = that's lunging right? fairly basic classical "game"
Sideways game = yielding is fairly easily taught in basic in-hand training
Squeezing game = not sure why you need to make this a game, surely it does this each time it walks into it's stable?

So it CAN translate, it just depends if you can see through the system. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater is all I have to say. The mistake these "brands" made is to label it and I can see why they did it, but what has happened is that they have now created tools that only work in isolation for some people. In simplifying (or indeed making it more complex!) this repackaged basics model has backfired - even though I'm sure their intention was to demystify horse training for some people.

I'd say get on with teaching your horse to carry a rider once you have the basic groundwork established.

 

[ihatework]

I find Pirelli has a pretty good reputation, particularly for Formula One.

Not sure their equally suited to horse training though.

 

[SEL]

I know nothing about parelli, but if you've got a horse that is easily lunging in tack then I see no reason why you can't get them used to having a rider on board in the next 10 weeks.

Have you got experience backing a youngster to be ridden? Can your current instructor support you with this?

 

[paddi22]

The thing i dislike about parelli trainers is that any i've seen work with people, tend to make their students extremely dependent on them and terrified of doing the wrong thing. They drag things out and out and out, and sell more and more equipment and training.

Any trainer should be happy to listen to their students aim. Your goal of having her hacking seems very realistic and an easily achieveable goal. Any decent trainer would work with you to achieve your objective, not just keep putting it off.

 

[tallyho!]

The thing i dislike about parelli trainers is that any i've seen work with people, tend to make their students extremely dependent on them and terrified of doing the wrong thing. They drag things out and out and out, and sell more and more equipment and training.

Any trainer should be happy to listen to their students aim. Your goal of having her hacking seems very realistic and an easily achieveable goal. Any decent trainer would work with you to achieve your objective, not just keep putting it off.

Completely. I also struggle with the blinkered-ness of training "Systems".

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I find Pirelli has a pretty good reputation, particularly for Formula One.

Not sure their equally suited to horse training though.

The trouble with correcting someone else's spelling is that one's own should be beyond reproach

There (place)
Their (possessive)
They're (abbreviation of 'they are').

I'm not sure why anyone gets hung up on a particular system, Parelli or any other.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Full on Parelli trainers are pretty blinkered, and indeed seem to want to make their students ('parelliteenies') very dependent on them, and all the expensive Parelli products. Luckily the trainer I used was self taught and mixed it with traditional methods.

The squeezing game was actually very useful in getting my claustrophobic drama diva mare loading and unloading calmly.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

We use Pirelli(s) on our motorbikes

 

[ester]

I've come across parelling people (instructors) now doing other stuff, it seemed the more they did they more holes they found and that having a horse randomly side passing along any pole it can find wasn't that helpful.

It isn't a method I would choose to use.

 

[Kayles]

Lol your so funny I forgot to laugh lol (I didn't forget really)

 

[Kayles]

Lol you where the second mouse on the cheese there

 

[Kayles]

Omg I'm messing up this replying stuff. Sorry guys. I appreciate all the thoughts genuinely . was really hoping for some particular examples of direct conflict. As for practicing conventional training methods Alongside I have bitted her in a copper roller snaffle, lunge her in it and roller and side reins, mount and dismount every sesh with tack on. Stirrups been flapping everywhere on roller and saddle. Next steps alongside the parelli plans my instructor has: I intend on being lunged on board very patiently obviously as the aids is where I think she's missing guidance currently. Plenty more Road walking she's been in farm environment up til now and not bothered by tractors or cattle / sheep geese goats, lots of long reining in school round fields and quiet tracks, eventually I think my instruction will take us all far as "liberty?" And or free schooling. I have no experience bringing on a youngster, she is my second horse and It took me to turn 30 before financially stable enough to get the land sorted. Now both my beauties are cobs bought cheap as chips, with not one penny spared for there needs so far. Loaned on and off fifteen years prior, riding and looking after other people's horses to keep horses fit for there events and for there financial benefit. stable girling as a young teen for extra riding lessons from age of 11, every Saturday and Sunday for years, all started by my best friend when I was 9 who went on to own 11 ponies at one point (well her dad did) don't think I'll ever shake the horse madness, in my blood line skipped two generations.

 

[Kayles]

I love reading about horses constantly so please entertain me

 

[Kayles]

Any tips appreciated. Personally think I've done great in 3 month

 

[ycbm]

Kayles

1. If you want to reply to a particular post press the 'reply with quote' button

2. If you want to see where your horse might end up if you continue training with a Parelli purist, visit their arena at the Horse of the Year Show and watch the most shut down, miserable looking group of horses I've ever seen in one small space.

 

[Orangehorse]

I have ridden a Pirelli trained horse and it was quite normal and responded to the usual aids. OP, I would discuss this with your instructor and say that you are worried about running out of daylight hours.

 

[ycbm]

Any tips appreciated. Personally think I've done great in 3 month

I don't, sorry. In that time, I've had every horse I have ever broken established in walk trot and canter on a hack, and most of them also in an arena. That includes an entirely unhandled three year old.

I think you have the wrong instructor.

 

[Kayles]

you say every horse like your lucky enough to work with them rather than own two and worked your whole life to obtain them. Still not hearing any actual examples of conflicting scenarios?

 

[Kayles]

I have ridden a Pirelli trained horse and it was quite normal and responded to the usual aids. OP, I would discuss this with your instructor and say that you are worried about running out of daylight hours.

Thanks this is the first hand experience I was after

 

[Kayles]

I have ridden a Pirelli trained horse and it was quite normal and responded to the usual aids. OP, I would discuss this with your instructor and say that you are worried about running out of daylight hours.

The trouble with correcting someone else's spelling is that one's own should be beyond reproach

There (place)
Their (possessive)
They're (abbreviation of 'they are').

I'm not sure why anyone gets hung up on a particular system, Parelli or any other.

Lol

Do you take a more all rounder approach?

 

[Kayles]

Kayles

1. If you want to reply to a particular post press the 'reply with quote' button

2. If you want to see where your horse might end up if you continue training with a Parelli purist, visit their arena at the Horse of the Year Show and watch the most shut down, miserable looking group of horses I've ever seen in one small space.

This sounds genuine. As someone mentioned earlier I don't think there is much support on here for this method yet I'm intreged by what would be a better alternative?

 

[paddi22]

I'd be more worried about your trainers attitude. There is absolutely no reason why that horse shouldn't be hacking in a very short period and your trainer knows that. You have clearly stated that is your aim. You have a very logical sensible reason and yet your trainer is not working with you to achieve your goal, but pushing it further down the line because of her own opinion and for reasons she hasn't even clearly explained to you. That's a bad trainer and not someone I would be comfortable working with. i would worry about a system that would make hacking a horse down the road an impossible goal that needs a whole summer of work to do. I think trainers like that are manipulative and make pupils co-dependent on them.

I think you are completely right to have her hacking while the weather is good, there's light and no crazy cold, frost, wind or rain. That way she can have a natural break and come back after winter. I also think it's not good for a horse to have only had so much one on one interaction with a rider in an arena. It would be healthy to have a balance where she gets out and about and has to figure stuff out on her own on hacks.

If you are worried that a training system can mess up the progress of a horse (that only needs to have someone sat on it and hacked down a road) then i'd have serious concerns about that system in the first place.

I've a young horse in less that three months of solid work and she's happily pottering about doing crosspoles at baby shows and popping logs xc. I also do a lot of groundwork and natural horsemanship with her (not parelli) , but i would never at any point feel they would clash.

As a point of debate and not an insult directed at you at all, is the issue that parelli treats its followers like babies and spoonfeeds them tiny bits of information without ever making them feel confident or understand the entire system?

 

[ester]

I gave you a conflicting scenario,
unless of course you think a horse that wants to only side pass if a pole is in the arena is not conflicting?

Look at this horse when he was doing parelli and when he stopped and started on the more classical route, I know which version I prefer - you can scroll through the page for more current pics.

https://www.facebook.com/Roz.Richmond.uk/posts/320081984848621

 

[ycbm]

you say every horse like your lucky enough to work with them rather than own two and worked your whole life to obtain them. Still not hearing any actual examples of conflicting scenarios?

I don't understand you. I'm a private owner and I've broken a number of cheap horses for myself to bring on and ride. Every single one, including a feral three year old, has been out hacking in all three paces, on its own, inside three months.

 

[ester]

I don't understand you. I'm a private owner and I've broken a number of cheap horses for myself to bring on and ride.

yes what a bizarre response to you!?