Pirelli, where does it sit with breaking a horse?

ycbm

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This sounds genuine. As someone mentioned earlier I don't think there is much support on here for this method yet I'm intreged by what would be a better alternative?

What everyone who doesn't try to sell expensive branded videos and gadgets does. Any non branded trainer, basically. Buy yourself an ordinary, non branded, book on breaking horses and you will see what most people do.
 
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be positive

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This sounds genuine. As someone mentioned earlier I don't think there is much support on here for this method yet I'm intreged by what would be a better alternative?

The traditional method of starting youngsters works perfectly well, it sounds as if you are part way there with her lunging in tack, being confident in all paces, happy for you to sit on her so why not just move on to the next stage of her walking with you on top and go from there, constant repetition and baby steps forward in the training is all they require, most horses can get to the hacking stage within weeks not months if all goes well.
I think most people using these alternative methods try and make out there is something unique and work on reeling in anyone who lacks confidence, they then use the lack of confidence to keep you hooked rather than enable you, give you the confidence to progress alone which is what a good trainer should be doing, guidance and teaching you how to use the tools not holding you back in case you feel brave enough to make your own decisions.
I think they have a similar way with the horses, get them so shut down, submissive, unable to think for themselves, they may end up quiet but they seem dull and unenthusiastic in their way of going.
 

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The traditional method of starting youngsters works perfectly well, it sounds as if you are part way there with her lunging in tack, being confident in all paces, happy for you to sit on her so why not just move on to the next stage of her walking with you on top and go from there, constant repetition and baby steps forward in the training is all they require, most horses can get to the hacking stage within weeks not months if all goes well.
I think most people using these alternative methods try and make out there is something unique and work on reeling in anyone who lacks confidence, they then use the lack of confidence to keep you hooked rather than enable you, give you the confidence to progress alone which is what a good trainer should be doing, guidance and teaching you how to use the tools not holding you back in case you feel brave enough to make your own decisions.
I think they have a similar way with the horses, get them so shut down, submissive, unable to think for themselves, they may end up quiet but they seem dull and unenthusiastic in their way of going.

Now I'm think about it all the vids online do seem dull.
 

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yes what a bizarre response to you!?

Ok So I didn't find the comment that helpful at the time but to clarify I'm interested in people experience of parelli during breaking process, not weather anyone thinks I've done a good job in three months (as I'm proud either way) not a troll either last time I checked lol
 

ester

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We start Long reining next week. Any tips please to help our journey this summer?

Well you also asked for tips to help your journey this summer.

So I don't think you can say that suggestions to try a new instructor or just get on and start hacking aren't tips.

Personally I would probably be hopping on sooner rather than later, no reason groundwork, in whatever guise cannot run alongside, and it obviously should. I will still doing in hand work with my 23 yo so ... plenty of time!
 

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really? Whilst on board or free schooling? My impressions of parelli so far is that it's lead by alpha mare i.e. Me, surely a horse side passing a pole would dude pass it anyway?
 

ycbm

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Ok So I didn't find the comment that helpful at the time but to clarify I'm interested in people experience of parelli during breaking process, not weather anyone thinks I've done a good job in three months

You said 'Personally think I've done great in 3 months' . I think you are well behind where any non Parelli trainer would be in the backing process. I'm very confused whether you want real advice, or whether you want people to tell you that you are doing fine, so you can continue with Parelli. Unless you want to delay even further, and potentially end up with a shut down horse afraid to think for itself, then I seriously recommend you to dump your trainer and find a new one who doesn't need a brand name.
 

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Well you also asked for tips to help your journey this summer.

So I don't think you can say that suggestions to try a new instructor or just get on and start hacking aren't tips.

Personally I would probably be hopping on sooner rather than later, no reason groundwork, in whatever guise cannot run alongside, and it obviously should. I will still doing in hand work with my 23 yo so ... plenty of time!

Lol true I should have stated that I'm only on game 5, 3 weeks in (so a hour and a half paid training) and her rear feet lifting was problematic until parelli, working her three times a week also has a massive impact I think compared to most peoples commitment to breaking.

Thankyou all
 

ester

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really? Whilst on board or free schooling? My impressions of parelli so far is that it's lead by alpha mare i.e. Me, surely a horse side passing a pole would dude pass it anyway?

free schooling I think, it was just something that came up in conversation among a few other things that that person realised further down the parelli line that really weren't helpful, or what she wanted out of the relationship with a horse. Did you read the link I put up/look at the pictures?

I've not seen anything in parelli that makes me think it mimics alpha mare behaviour/lead.
 

ycbm

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really? Whilst on board or free schooling? My impressions of parelli so far is that it's lead by alpha mare i.e. Me, surely a horse side passing a pole would dude pass it anyway?

You aren't a mare, though, are you? And the alpha mare thing is very questionable. Why not be a human trainer? If you get a non Parelli trainer, they'll show you how.

If you want advice on breaking using Parelli, you're on the wrong forum.
 

Pearlsasinger

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This sounds genuine. As someone mentioned earlier I don't think there is much support on here for this method yet I'm intreged by what would be a better alternative?


Almost anything, judging by the end results that I have seen!

I don't believe in rushing young horses, or putting them under undue pressure but follow traditional methods, listening to the horse and working with it.
 

ester

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and of course the whole concept of an alpha mare has relatively recently been called into significant question anyway, so potentially a totally flawed behaviour to be working on

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...ment-initiation-in-groups-of-feral-horses.pdf


Also if you are interested in behaviour and how you are working with it are you aware of the concept of learned helplessness? You might find a read of that helpful too.
 

Pearlsasinger

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really? Whilst on board or free schooling? My impressions of parelli so far is that it's lead by alpha mare i.e. Me, surely a horse side passing a pole would dude pass it anyway?

If you watch a herd for a decent length of time, you will see that there is no "Alpha mare". Different horses take the lead at different times, in different situations. Horses are wise enough to know that their relationships with humans are not the same as those with other horses.
 

Kayles

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If you watch a herd for a decent length of time, you will see that there is no "Alpha mare". Different horses take the lead at different times, in different situations. Horses are wise enough to know that their relationships with humans are not the same as those with

Agreed. seeing all the points of view are invaluable
 

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I gave you a conflicting scenario,
unless of course you think a horse that wants to only side pass if a pole is in the arena is not conflicting?

Look at this horse when he was doing parelli and when he stopped and started on the more classical route, I know which version I prefer - you can scroll through the page for more current pics.

https://www.facebook.com/Roz.Richmond.uk/posts/320081984848621

I just see lots of comments
 

ester

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It takes me to a long post that starts in capitals 'how did I get bob looking like he does today' or similar words dated 11 Feb 2015 it details the changes he went through with some photos of him being ridden after his parelli work, and then after she moved on from the parelli work, then there are comments underneath. It's possible the page isn't set to public though I thought it was and if you are seeing text it should be.
 
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ester

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Also it's not complicated, it's basic google research I would presume most people would do before they opt for deciding they should try and be an alpha mare or follow that sort of training regime.
 

Kayles

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Wow this is so complex

Also it's not complicated, it's basic google research I would presume most people would do before they opt for deciding they should try and be an alpha mare or follow that sort of training regime.

Im pretty sure I did not google the definition of alpha mare and why I want to be one. The document is not an easy read - it is complex lol
 

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free schooling I think, it was just something that came up in conversation among a few other things that that person realised further down the parelli line that really weren't helpful, or what she wanted out of the relationship with a horse. Did you read the link I put up/look at the pictures?

I've not seen anything in parelli that makes me think it mimics alpha mare behaviour/lead.

I think at the time the instructor mentioned it to me I was asking her to disengage her hind quarters during the circling game to then go in the opposite direction.
 

Kayles

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You aren't a mare, though, are you? And the alpha mare thing is very questionable. Why not be a human trainer? If you get a non Parelli trainer, they'll show you how.

If you want advice on breaking using Parelli, you're on the wrong forum.

I thought this was the inexperienced section "new owners"? Which forum should it have been on?
 

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I thought this was the inexperienced section "new owners"? Which forum should it have been on?

Not HHO but a Parelli-friendly one, possibly American.

Parelli is not a system that sits well with people on this forum as whole, nor on the sub-forum "New Owners"

It's not a system that translates well into competitive riding, or indeed the horse being handled by non-Parelli based people.

I have just helped a friend of mine start her homebred 4 yr old. She has handled him since birth and done loads of in-hand work with him. Because she has followed a non-conventional groundwork method (not Parelli but similar), it has been very hard for the three of us (me, her and her young horse) to communicate.

It is like teaching a French speaking child how to write essays in English. We are getting there, but it has been confusing for all of us. And both my friend and I have a lot more experience with horses than you, OP. I have been backing a huge variety of horses for myself and other people for about 30 years.
 

ester

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It's a scientific paper but there are plenty of opinion/easy read pieces about that bit of research if you can be bothered to use your google search. Basically all it confirms, by proper robust research, what we have said here about alpha mares not existing.

It isn't that we have a personal grudge against parcelling, we dislike it because we have done some research and recognise it's many flaws as a general programme. Research that anyone should be doing before embarking on a journey with a new horse and I'd highly recommend you take a trip round the internet. There are loads of user friendly articles that can be read by excellent horse people and once you have armed yourself with some more information you will be in a better position to decide how you want to proceed.

It may also depend if you intend to sell or keep this horse, as you will reduce your market if it has been heavily parellid.
 

ycbm

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I thought this was the inexperienced section "new owners"? Which forum should it have been on?

A forum where people believe in and use Parelli to break in horses. I don't think you will find an HHO user who will advise you on it, because most of the rest of us dislike the entire package so much.

There are some good bits in it, but they are not unique to Parelli.

But I personally will not support the use of a method where they sock their horses under the chin with the clip on a lead rope, having watched a video where Linda trained her students how to do it harder.

Or one which withholds free access to water as a method of creating dependence.

Or one where a horse is forced, in a public demonstration no less, to accept a bridle by having his mouth chained to his leg.

At the Horse of the year show, I stood for quite a long time and watched horses which had been made totally dependent on their handler. I have never seen so many horses in one small area with lifeless eyes.
 

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I thought this was the inexperienced section "new owners"? Which forum should it have been on?
As you were advised by me (who has used some basic Parelli training) in post #5, don't go looking on HHO for advice about Parelli. I'm sure that if you join the Parelli system (for a fee, of course), there are numerous threads about how to continue your Parelli journey.

Ester, that's interesting that some Parelli trainers are moving on from the system now, it was always likely to be a flash in the pan.
 

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Generally speaking, those that I have known in RL that practice parelli have been ones that lacked confidence, had overhorsed themselves and were nervous or were just pretty novice.

In each situation I felt the trainer had taken advantage of the situation by creating a high level of dependency, resulting in the owner being too worried to deviate from plan and think for themselves. The cynic in me assumes that preying on such individuals is part of their marketing plan and how they manage to bleed so much money from their followers. A good trainer should give you confidence, help you work towards your goals in a timely fashion and empower you to develop your own toolkit so you are capable of problem solving independently of them.

I still remember watching a 7yo trap their pony in a corner and proceed to smack it with a carrot stick. Pony was utterly confused and somewhat distressed and child was too young to truly read the body language. Trainer watched on and encouraged the child to "tap harder". It made for incredibly uncomfortable viewing and was just an accident waiting to happen IMO.
 
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