Please Help - All hell broke loose with my dogs

[maxusa]

Hi,

Got a real fright earlier on this afternoon. We had up until Saturday a Cairn Terrier (had been abandoned 2.5 years ago) and we have had him since and a Labrador (from Dogs Trust last October (Gabriel) and he is 2. Cairn is called TK and he is 5.

Well we decided to get another dog that would play more with Gabriel, since TK does not play and Gabriel full of beans. Anyway, we took another rescue dog from Dogs Trust, so all our Dogs were socialised together a couple of times before we brought Moses (he is 3 in December and is a big Labradoodle) on Saturday.

Things were going well, although TK can be a bit nippy, and is really possesive of all toys - he has a little house in loung (between 2 of the couches) and he keeps a stash of toys in there, Moses did try and get in the house and TK came out all guns blazing and attacked him, but we managed to scoosh water on them and get TK off.

Since that we have put a little table there so TK can get in but Moses cannot get in.

All was going fine, apart from a few growls from TK when Moses had audacity to walk too closely to him.

Earlier today though, Moses had a chew and whilst TK thinks he can take chews from Gabriel (who lets him) Moses was not for giving it up, it all happened so quickly, I am sure TK went for Moses when Moses would not give chew up, but next thing TK was hanging from Moses throat, and there was a huge brawl - Gabriel then got in since he is normally really protective of TK (not that he needs it) but this time Gabriel was trying to get TK away from Moses. The end of it was my 17 year old daughter and I were amongst it, I honestly thought TK was going to get killed, but he would not back off.

We split them up TK bit me in the process on inside of my leg (know it was him since if had been one of the other two puncture marks and bruising would of been much bigger)

Water did not work since I flung a bottle of mineral water that I had nearby to try and calm things down.

Have now taken all toys and chews from house and bagged them up, so am hoping that with nothing to fight about things should calm down.

I really do not want to send Moses back, since we have fallen in love with him and he really is a gentle giant and loves other dogs - him and Gabriel play really well and apart from this with TK all is well.

I work from home and have ano office downstairs, and both Gabriel and Moses lie on their beds next to my desk, there is also a bed for TK but he has very rarely come in, but before the fight today he was down there lying with the other 2 dogs.

Please can someone tell me how to handle this, am really worried since my neighbour was going to look after them for the day on 7th, since we are in London for day, and now am scared this happened when she had them.

All advice appreciated.

Thanks for reading, and sorry for long post

 

[Spudlet]

So sorry to hear you are having problems

Call the Dogs Trust centre you got them from and ask to speak to their behaviourist, they will offer free advice.

Hope you get it sorted

 

[maxusa]

Another point is that TK (Cairn) is the only dog who has not been castrated, do you think that may help??

 

[mattilda]

Caylas your man, so to speak, well woman really!! You may find they will settle in time but TK and Moses do not appear to be making friends do they?
I have a problem with my 2 bitches as in the younger one started attacking the older girlie. We have learnt to read the situation and stop the aggression before she starts, usually.
Hope you manage to sort it all out. It is distressing to see.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Hi - don't know how much castration would work as he is a mature dog by now.

You have to remember it is still early days and they will spend some time working out a pecking order.
Was there any damage caused to dogs, ie broken flesh, blood etc? Dog fights can often look and sound worse than they really are and I'd rather be in the middle of scrapping dogs than scrapping bitches.

Glad you have removed toys.
I would start again re toys and possession, if this is possible.
Toys do not belong to dogs. Toys belong to you and YOU determine when they are given, how long they are played with and when they are taken away again.
Dogs thinking they 'own' items leads to all sorts of problems.

Tell me to bog off if I am wrong

but would TK be a bit spoiled? Yes, he was abandoned, and that is sad, but he should not be allowed to rule the roost in an aggressive manner.

As Mattilda says, in the interim you will learn to spot behaviour and to involve yourself when you need to.
There will be a period when dogs establish who comes where in the pack - just make sure it is clear that you are in charge and your daughter, no one else!

One thing you can try - if TK acts like a little bugger, isolate him. Quick, fast, no talking, just lift him and put him out of the room. After ten minutes, reintroduce.

If the fighting happens again, is water is not working, lift the aggressor up by the collar.
I don't mean scruffing or exerting dominance or anything like that before someone jumps down my throat

But lift his front feet off the ground if you can, and if possible, either you or someone else support the other dog so that the skin does not tear.
This should prompt the attacking dog to let go.

These are all just ideas and I agree that you should talk to the Dogs Trust behaviourist.

 

[soloabe]

Agree with everything above.
Give them a bit of time to settle and work it out.
Make sure they get lots of exercise together on neutral territory.

I also agree with the isolation.
If TK start take him out of the room quickly without emotion kind of like a time out for kids.

Good luck.
Also i would get a behaviorist in if its the same in a few weeks.

 

[CAYLA]

Oh...the joys of a peaceful pack

Agree with CC in most aspects, the Cairn sounds a little like eveyone goes out of their as to not upset the little cutey

Cairns are by nature feisty and not unusually bolchy and dominant little feckers.
As suggested all toys and food removed, dogs fights over food are one of the main trigger factors of dog fights, that and the presence of the owner believe it or not, esp if their is no prominant dominanat figure (owner) not dog and more commonly with bitches, im not into making a top dog, the owner puts the dogs in their place always.
I would hazard at a guess you rarely have to be firm with the dogs, so they may never have experienced your "im not messing guy voice"

I know what u mean re the labradoodle(they are the bounciest breed alive, but gentle with it, if not clumsy

)

So you have removed the fight factor......u could practice small exercises at giving treats in an orderly fashion, this is the only way mine are fed any kind of treat, they sorround me and I dish em out, any sign of aggression is then reprimanded by me, and said dog is excluded from treats, I never leave treats or food down in an unsupervised fashion, I may when the dogs are crated and Im out.
If the fight does occur, as suggested remove the aggressor, and use your voice to "ENOUGH" in your manliest and most angry voice/or womanly if you are a woman

becare ful how quick u pick a small dog up and lift it out of reach of the other 2, it's not uncommon in a freinzy for the larger dogs to make a grab for a smaller dog (have seen it done) and the smaller dog was killed and the man lost the tip of his thumb.

Don't make time out to long, segrigating for long periods or on a perminant basis can make dog aggression WORSE, when he re-enters tell them all to get on their beds and keep everything calm.
I would also encourage him to have a bed in the same room as your other 2 when u are working from home, instead of him being segrigated in his "house" but obs part him when you are out......a little dog will not stand a chance in a fight against 2 big dogs like that.
I would also have his nads off Im afraid, it wont irradicate his stroppiness but it will help a little take the edge of his dominance.
Be confident and show no sign of panick when it happens if it does again, use your voice and be firm.

 

[Booboos]

Ditto what CaveCanem advised!

If no skin was broken, no injuries, etc it was not that serious and probably sounded scarier than it was.

Isolation works brilliantly, our Spitz stopped attacking the puppy after only two incidents in a row when he was isolated. It really sends a signal that this kind of behaviour is not tolerated in this pack and you will be left to fend for yourself if you do it!

Good luck!