Please help - Travelling the older horse

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poodle20

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Hi, I would really appreciate some help. We are moving yards shortly, won't go into details on here, but one of my big worries is my old horse. He is 23, but absolutely crippled with arthritis to the point of not being able to lift his feet for trimming. He cannot seem to stand still for any period of time, when he comes in for his tea, he just goes round his stable in circles, as tho standing still hurts him. The vet has seen him on numerous occasions, he is on 2 bute per day, and the vet has said that he is way past the point of suppliments being any help. The vet has suggested upping the bute the night before and on the morning of the move. We have a trailer but have booked a wagon to move them, having spoken to the wagon people they don't seem to think it will be a problem as they travelled ill/injured horses all the time. I am so very worried about him, anyone got any helpful ideas. PLEASE
 
I think it depends on how far it is ..... sorry but I have to say that it sounds as if you need to address his whole quality of life rather than his new home as it sounds, from your post above that he is suffering.
 
Jojoeena said:
I think it depends on how far it is ..... sorry but I have to say that it sounds as if you need to address his whole quality of life rather than his new home as it sounds, from your post above that he is suffering.
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I'm very sorry to say it but I feel I have to agree. It sounds like he is suffering more than he needs to be
 
I know what you mean - I have discussed this with the vet and she seems happy to keep him going. When he comes in he eats his tea and he seems happy enough in the field (he does live out) he eats the hay that is put out. He lives with my other 3. Ooooooooooooh heck, really don't know what to do. I honestly don't know if he is suffering or not. He doesn't seem to be in pain. Not moving isn't an option.
 
I agree with what you are all saying, I have thought long and hard about this myself. The vet is coming out to see him on the 27th December, I will have another chat with her then.
Just need to buy him a couple of new legs.
 
Unfortunatley Poodle I agree wit hthe others :( if he is in that much discomfort that picking his feet up for the farrier is painfull....and i'm not one to give up on an older horse! The stress of moving him aswell maybe it's his way of telling you it's time :(
 
sorry but of course the vet is gonna keep him going as long as she can- repeat bute and numerous visits are paying for her christmas to put it bluntly.

he certainly sounds like hes suffering (to put it mildly!!), he will go down in the field one day and that will be it (unfortunately seen it too many times as the people where we keep ours like to string them out aswell)
 
Having had an older horse, once she needed more than a bute a day & she couldn't get up/down to roll properly I called it a day. i would not have looked to travel her any kind of distance.
((hugs)) i think you have a tough choice ahead.
x
 
xloopylozzax said:
sorry but of course the vet is gonna keep him going as long as she can- repeat bute and numerous visits are paying for her christmas to put it bluntly.

he certainly sounds like hes suffering (to put it mildly!!), he will go down in the field one day and that will be it (unfortunately seen it too many times as the people where we keep ours like to string them out aswell)
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I think that's a bit much to say about the vet... I can't see a vet deliberately leaving a horse to suffer :confused:
 
I would say think about his wellbeing- is it really fair to keep him alive if hes in that much pain on a daily basis? Just something to think about..

But you werent askig for a lecture on your morals so for traveling and older horse, if hes not one to get heated up when traveling, make sure he keeps warm enough. Maybe a thick stable rug so that if he does go down then its a little more cushoning than a fleece. We travel ours in travel boots, as they are used to it, but if hes not, then dont put him in them as it will make balencing that little bit harder. We normally remove the petition in the trailer to allow more room to balance for an older horse, but make sure there is plenty of bedding. We normally use straw ffor the older horses as we can pile it up really thick and make deep banks at the edges. Use a net full of your horses favourite forage (unless its chaff or a mix or something- quite hard to travel with!) to encourage him to eat. Dont tie him up tightly, he will need room to move about to keep his balance and you also said standing still is uncomfortable for him, so you must allow him to move, but not so loose he can spin himself around or get his leg over it ect. Dont travel him without being tied up, as some older horses find it easy to lean back on the leadrope to help them get there balance if you see what i mean?
And make sure you have some yummy food for him when he gets there as hes going to have put alot of effort into staying up and he might be feeling weak.

Hope this helped :) And good luck :)
 
poodle20 said:
I know what you mean - I have discussed this with the vet and she seems happy to keep him going. When he comes in he eats his tea and he seems happy enough in the field (he does live out) he eats the hay that is put out. He lives with my other 3. Ooooooooooooh heck, really don't know what to do. I honestly don't know if he is suffering or not. He doesn't seem to be in pain. Not moving isn't an option.
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He doesnt seem in pain????????????????????????????????????????????????? really????? he does not have enough flexion to have his feet trimmed, and circles his box as it is uncomfortable for him to stand still and you think hes not in pain?????? :confused::confused::confused:
 
This is not an easy one. i moved my arthritic old horse in the summer this year. He is 29. He is currently on 1 bute a day though I have to say I think I could cut this out, not sure that he is that bad at the moment.

I did give him 2 bute the morning of the move, and I used bandages and over reach boots rather than tarvel boots which he doesn't like. Our journey was about 7 miles I think, so not far and my friend drove and was very ver good with him. He is not great on right hand bend for some reason.

Saying that, he can stand still, get up and down, and be shod with no real issues. He does have a rest between hing legs when he is shod but I don't think this is unreasonable.

It is a hard one, the fact that your boy is eating and moving around is in his favour - my old boy goes off his food at the drop of a hat. But what you describe does sound very uncomfortable indeed. How far is your journey?

Does your horse meander around the field or will he had a trot/canter etc? The reason I ask is that mine still hoons around on a regular basis quite happily, although thank god hasn't been on this hard ground.

I find bioflow boots overnight and turnout socks help keep legs warm and keen stiffness at bay.
 
At the end of the day, the owner has to make the decision... they are the one that knows the horse best of all. The vet should be giving good advice (and obviously some will and some won't), but they can't make that decision for you. I think some owners hope the vet will, and I don't think that's fair on the vet.

OP, you know your horse, and it's hard to judge from a post on an internet forum, but maybe take this as an opportunity to really assess how your old boy really is and what his quality of life is.
 
Hi,

Im new to this forum but I have a few veterans of my own and we also do retirment livery.

One of my none veteran mares is retired due to severe injury to her fetlock that has left her with brittle tendons and no joint fluid however she still canters round the field at times and is not on regular bute. This is after me getting a second opinion from another vet and I have never looked back so this may be worth a try.

With regards to travelling him I would think he would be better in your trailer with the patition out as the ramp will be a lot easier for him than a horsebox. As previously suggested I would put a thick bed down in the trailer and if he is not used to traveling with travel boots I would try exercise bandages with gamge to give him some support and definately up his bute the day before, on the morning and for 24 hours after him arriving at his new home as he will feel it for a little while afterwards.

I hope the move goes well and your vet can help him to be more comfortable however that may be.
 
I won't comment on whether you should travel him or not as others have given some sound advice on that front. If however, you do decide to try and move him please take specific veterinary advice as to whether or not you should. Under transport legislation it is an offence to travel any animal in a way that is likely to cause unnecesary suffering. There is lots of advice on here about making it easier for him, but I would try to get a letter from your vet advocating the journey, just in case you get stopped or something terrible did happen and the authorities got to know about it.

Good luck with your decision.
 
OP, I am sorry but I cannot agree with you that he is not in pain, the poor animal must be uncomfortable if he has restricted movement to the degree you describe. I know many vets can 'keep a horse going', what I question is whether that is more for the owner's benefit (and maybe the Practice coffers) than that of the animal. If he has has a good life and now is losing his quality of life, then I think you need to be brave and do the best you can for him, even if that means asking the vet chellenging questions.

We have a 28 year old with us and he is really doing well, but all connections are agreed what should be done if things change.

Sorry if this hurts, I'm sure you want the best for him, vibes to help you..
 
I had to travel my old boy when he was 29 as we were moving house. He was not as bad as the OP describes but he was on daily bute as he had arthritis in his knees (one was very bad) and so he found the farrier very difficult. Luckily (so to speak) his lack of flexion was in his knee and my farrier was able to trim him with his toe mostly on the ground.

Regardless of the quality of life discussion, I think it is right to be worried about travelling an old horse, it is indeed hard, especially when it is a once in a blue moon event. However, a good drive and sensible precautions can make all the difference. Our journey was 14 miles and it took me an hour to complete the journey. I went very early in the morning so that other road users wouldn't get fed up with me crawling around bends. I used a trailer as I was very concerned about the rake of the ramp of a lorry, OP - do you think your old boy will be able to negotiate the slope of a lorry ramp? I ummed and ahhed about whether to give him the whole trailer for room but in the end I travelled him with his best friend for calming vibes and he wore travel boots and a very light sheet as I knew he would sweat up even though it was in January. He had extra bute before and after and I loaded him up with arnica too.

I lost my old boy when he was 30 after he had enjoyed a very happy 14 months at our new place. He wasn't sound but he would regularly canter around the field putting in the odd handstand though he knew to only do that when the ground was in his favour. I never regretted moving him though it was the most traumatic journey of my life.

I wish you the very best of luck.
 
I have a 24yo who we rarely travel as he also has arthritis in his fetlocks not to an extreme as yours, he is quite flexible in all joints and can happily stand for hours and for the farrier. When we travel him or any other oldie on the yard for whatever the reason we always use bandages over gamgee and over reach boots as they seem to allow better balancing than the stiff travel boots. I actually only travel mine in front bandages as he doesnt like bandages on the back he just kicks out. I agree with putting a think straw bed down and giving him slightly longer length of tie for travelling. We travel in a horsebox not a trailer, he seems better on the lorry as he can "rock" with the movemnt but has partition either side if he were to go too far. We havnt had an issue with mine but as I said he isnt as bad, so you may have much more difficulty I would definately agree in upping the bute, i would even be tempted to up to 3 per day 1 day before travel then double the normal on the night before and morning and evening after travel.

I have to now say this, I think from what you said your boy is actually in pain and I wouldnt wait for the vet to make the decision for you I would be looking at his overall quality of life and him in general. I am awaiting the day my boy needs that decision so i know kind of how hard it is to make the decision.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you make the best decision
 
what a horrible decision to have to make. it DOES sound like a huge thing to put an elderly sick horse through. its hard enough to settle horses in a new yard, never mind if they have those afflications your old boy has.

There was an interesting article on the web by a vet saying how he disagrees with all the efforts owners make to prolong sick animals lives, and how it does more harm than good, and is a money spinning exercise for some vets. I'l try and find it and post the link.
 
Gosh... I don't often respond to these types of posts but I feel I must share this.
An aquaintance of mine decided to bring his riddled with arthritis horse on a sponsored ride and buted him up so to do. The point of this story is, that when he arrived at the venue the horse was down in the trailer and it is my sad duty to report that the poor boy never made it to his feet again in this life. The vet said at the time he had not been able to balance due to being unable to keep his legs straight. As I was there at the time all of this happened, I cannot begin to tell you how awful it was for everyone and the poor boy involved.
Just take your time and discuss this with your vet as I would not like you to experience this situation.
You will make the right decision with informed advice.
Best of luck.
Bryndu
 
I have never been in a situation where I need to travel an old horse who finds keeping still impossible due to discomfort - because I have never let them get to that point. Is his quality of life so great that it isn't better to let him go now?

From the picture you paint, I would say not.

Some vets do indeed offer this and that by way of extending life, when the more reasonable and fair thing is to call it a day. I know because I have been there. And it is ****. :(
 
this is a hard one as I am aware of the situation which as lead to this move and have personal experience of the poster. But I shall remain professional in my response to 'Poodle20'.

I had my elderly pony of 36 years PTS in July of this year because he had cushings and was almost blind with arthritus in his hand quarters, he was in fab shape for his age and was not on any prescribed medication from the vet. But I made that tough decision which was supported by my vet because I felt that after 23 years together he would struggle through the winter ahead. I felt his quality of life was not as it was or should be and I had to ask myself why was I keeping him alive? and it was for my own selfish reasons that I wanted to see and hear him everyday. And I didnt want to arrive at my yard one day to see my old boy in agony and suffering. I so didnt want to sign his death card but it had to be done as I now know that my old man would have really struggled in these severe minus temperatures. It was hard and I dont envy anyone having to make it. Remember bute does not treat the illness/ailment it is just a paracetamol type drug it merely masks it so if he is that bad on 2 bute a day then it is unthinkable what he would be like off of it.

But the question was not whether to put this dear old boy to sleep or not it was whether to travel or not. If my memory serves me correct he hasnt been in his current home too long and the new place isnt too far - could he not be walked with one of his companions? with someone following in a car? if you are to box him then I would probably opt for bandages over travel boots as they can often provide a better fit. Have you thought about magnetic boots? aromatherapy treatment? I would not put straw down in a trailer as it can often leave the surface slippy when the horse tries to stand. But there is a risk travelling him. If he his stressy to love etc then I would maybe ask your vet for some sedalin and give him a small dosage the day before, on the day and the day after. This to keep him relaxed and it also helps drain any build up of sugars in the feet which in turn illeviates laminitis. I would watch for choke (caused by choking on food from gobbling it too fast because of anxiety) I would most certainly watch for colic.

Good luck to the old boy!
 
have looked at the replys , and its only you can decide if you have a vet you trust let them decide ,its ok for others to say have him put to sleep but if was their horse i think it would be a different matter good luck i hope he is ok. think positive let me no if he is ok
 
I am the owner of a 33yr old horse. He is in very good nick for his age. He had arthritis in both hocks.. worse in 1 than the other after an injury and tearing the ligaments in the hock about 5 years ago. He is however not on any drugs.. or supplements.. lives out all year.. 24/7.... I cannot catch him unless he wants to be caught the stuborn old bugger!! He is definately not suffering!
Only the OP knows their horse... and we would all like to think.. and i'm sure so would they.. that they would put aside their feelings about their horse if it was bad enough to warrant being put down! I had an agreement with my vet after my horse tore ligaments that they would come out and check quality of life every few months esp when horse was rather lame.... - horse is now not 100% sound but is 95%!! they come out every 6 months to him to have a little look now! - ( he's prob more sound than i am!)

As for travelling... someone said its not that far to go.. i would probably use the trailer or box with a low ramp to travel the old boy and would prob keep the partition in so that he has something to lean on!! I know there are concerns about them going down.. but those concerns are always there with any horse young or old, and at least a partition will give him something to lean on and support himself esp going round corners!!!

Good luck.. hope the move goes well and they old chap is ok!
 
I'm sorry but I just wouldn't travel him. I had my old mare aged 31 pts this June and she wasn't anywhere as bad as your old boy. I could not have beared to see her as bad as he is. In my opinion if a horse has quality of life then it is living pain free, or as pain free as it can be on bute (but not in huge doses...), they should be able to get down and roll, lie down and get back up again, and canter about the field. I wanted my old girl to go with some dignity, before I found her down and stuck in the field one day without the strength to get up. After 28 years of happiness and a bond I couldn't describe, I felt it was what I owed her. Heartbreaking as it was. In fact it's 6 months on Wednesday and I feel as wretched now as I did back then, BUT I know I did the right thing for her.

A few months before she was pts I had to move her a few miles to another field. She was taken in a trailer as the ramp isn't as steep as a lorry. My friend was pulling the trailer, and he knew it was more than his life was worth if he didn't take it easy with her in the back ;) She went into her new field, bucked, farted and cantered off. I knew she was happy then and still had quality of life. As SOON as I saw her start to go downhill I just had to let her go with dignity.

I know several people on here have said pts, and I know it's SO SO hard to make that decision, but read your post back to yourself and think about what you have told us.

If you want to PM me, please feel free to. I know it's not easy, but please do what's right for him.
 
I've not read all the replies, just skimmed, OP I feel your concern. Firstly, how far are you moving? Also I agree (if a short distance) then your trailer would be easier for him than a steep ramp. Can he travel with a friend? Will your new arrangements suit his needs?

I have a 22 yr old, who I moved over 200 miles aged 20, along the journey he got stress colic, I carried on driving, but it was a horrid experience watching him on the monitor. He was pretty ill for a week or two after. It was worrying times, (not helped by me breaking an ankle, so he was in a strange place and not even able to have a proper cuddle) if I have to move him again, I'll be thinking long and hard about his quality of life. He's settled now and having him on my door step with acres of fields and other pony friends he's got the retirement he's earnt.

He lives out 24/7, not liking the gloomy, jail like, internal Victorian stables! I hope I never have to move him and he can enjoy retirement, but things change and I would consider PTS rather than him endure another stressful move eg 200 miles. It's a hard one as, if he were to move that far it would be to an equally nice environment. Horses do adapt, I also took into consideration when he was a competition horse he has travelled across the country/ moved homes/owners.

I've probably not really helped you? Sorry, but only you (and maybe your vet) will really know how he'll cope. Just be prepared for all eventualities as best you can. Let us know how you get on and Good luck.
 
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