harrihjc
Well-Known Member
It's terribly sad, and I'd be rescuing every single one if I had the space, time, money, expertise etc. I completely disagree with any live exports for meat, and the fact that many are pregnant...
PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT THESE HORSES
- Thread starter nuffield
- Start date
zigzag
Well-Known Member
But it isn't only the horses that have to go through the journey, its cows/sheep and pigs as well.........
Honeypots
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
But it isn't only the horses that have to go through the journey, its cows/sheep and pigs as well.........
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so what!!!...does that mean we can't help this lot if we choose. Blinkin ek! does everything on here have to be a big debate?!!!!!!!!!
But it isn't only the horses that have to go through the journey, its cows/sheep and pigs as well.........
[/ QUOTE ]
so what!!!...does that mean we can't help this lot if we choose. Blinkin ek! does everything on here have to be a big debate?!!!!!!!!!
zigzag
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But it isn't only the horses that have to go through the journey, its cows/sheep and pigs as well.........
[/ QUOTE ]
so what!!!...does that mean we can't help this lot if we choose. Blinkin ek! does everything on here have to be a big debate?!!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Was I debating?? No ! so don't jump on me. I was stating a fact, I'm all for rescuing horses etc etc etc ( and have rescued several) but they aren't the only animals who go through this journey...
[ QUOTE ]
But it isn't only the horses that have to go through the journey, its cows/sheep and pigs as well.........
[/ QUOTE ]
so what!!!...does that mean we can't help this lot if we choose. Blinkin ek! does everything on here have to be a big debate?!!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
marmite
Well-Known Member
No its not but its not a fair world is it?
Im sorry to say but there are far worse things going off in the world.
Horses =animals=meat=a trade.
if you agree with it or not there is no way you will save equine kind by jumping down the necks of the people been realistic about it.
Im sorry to say but there are far worse things going off in the world.
Horses =animals=meat=a trade.
if you agree with it or not there is no way you will save equine kind by jumping down the necks of the people been realistic about it.
harrihjc
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
But it isn't only the horses that have to go through the journey, its cows/sheep and pigs as well.........
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes I know, and if somebody posted pictures of them needing rescuing I'm sure I'd be wanting to take on the lot as well! But being practical, I don't have the space or money for those either, and have no knowledge of how to care for them properly. I would never ever turn away an animal in need and neither can my parents, which is why we have always had a house full!
But it isn't only the horses that have to go through the journey, its cows/sheep and pigs as well.........
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes I know, and if somebody posted pictures of them needing rescuing I'm sure I'd be wanting to take on the lot as well! But being practical, I don't have the space or money for those either, and have no knowledge of how to care for them properly. I would never ever turn away an animal in need and neither can my parents, which is why we have always had a house full!
Honeypots
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
No its not but its not a fair world is it?
Im sorry to say but there are far worse things going off in the world.
Horses =animals=meat=a trade.
if you agree with it or not there is no way you will save equine kind by jumping down the necks of the people been realistic about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't open, don't read...quite simple!
No its not but its not a fair world is it?
Im sorry to say but there are far worse things going off in the world.
Horses =animals=meat=a trade.
if you agree with it or not there is no way you will save equine kind by jumping down the necks of the people been realistic about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't open, don't read...quite simple!
Honeypots
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But it isn't only the horses that have to go through the journey, its cows/sheep and pigs as well.........
[/ QUOTE ]
so what!!!...does that mean we can't help this lot if we choose. Blinkin ek! does everything on here have to be a big debate?!!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Was I debating?? No ! so don't jump on me. I was stating a fact, I'm all for rescuing horses etc etc etc ( and have rescued several) but they aren't the only animals who go through this journey...
[/ QUOTE ]
has anyone said they are the only animals to go through this?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But it isn't only the horses that have to go through the journey, its cows/sheep and pigs as well.........
[/ QUOTE ]
so what!!!...does that mean we can't help this lot if we choose. Blinkin ek! does everything on here have to be a big debate?!!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
has anyone said they are the only animals to go through this?
marmite
Well-Known Member
to be honest i opened due to the fact i beleived it to be another dealer joining up to try break t & c to sell horses.
But those who are going to be sensitive about it can not expect a thread of this nature to cause an uproar against the meat trade.
A big majority of the horses that go for slaughter are inbred along many other things so would have no place in the equine industry.
But those who are going to be sensitive about it can not expect a thread of this nature to cause an uproar against the meat trade.
A big majority of the horses that go for slaughter are inbred along many other things so would have no place in the equine industry.
marmite
Well-Known Member
But again the post was aimed towards horses people were making a point it happens to all animals its part of life.
pixie
Well-Known Member
why don't you start rescuing the meat ponies in this country first. There are 100's of horses in this country that are knackered and up for the slaughter, I'm sure some we could find a pregnant one for you too. Then, when this country is sorted out, you can start on other countries.
There's absolutely no point in worrying about other countries when yours is in the same mess.
I have no problem with horses going for meat, as long as the entire process (incl transportation) is humane; the same goes for any other animal.
There's absolutely no point in worrying about other countries when yours is in the same mess.
I have no problem with horses going for meat, as long as the entire process (incl transportation) is humane; the same goes for any other animal.
marmite
Well-Known Member
ditto
Baggybreeches
Well-Known Member
Here here, charity begins at home!
nuffield
Well-Known Member
what makes you think the majority are inbred Marmite?
re the french horses , those in Dept 41 were from Spain, exported to Italy for meat and they g via french fattening farms her ethe mares are served to gt them infaol an increase their weight.
there just ordinary horses , the sort which are pets over here in the UK. riding school types, ex tourist carriage horses etc.
re the french horses , those in Dept 41 were from Spain, exported to Italy for meat and they g via french fattening farms her ethe mares are served to gt them infaol an increase their weight.
there just ordinary horses , the sort which are pets over here in the UK. riding school types, ex tourist carriage horses etc.
pixie
Well-Known Member
What utter bollocks. If they were of any decent quality then they would be sold on for riding.
nuffield
Well-Known Member
sadly the world isnt like that.
theres lots of information on the IHDG site.
theres lots of information on the IHDG site.
PaintboxEDT
Well-Known Member
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What utter bollocks. If they were of any decent quality then they would be sold on for riding.
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pmsl
exactley im sure there are people in france who are looking for a nice riding pony and if these where then wouldnt they have been brought ??
as i said earlier it is sad if this was thier last journey before they were slaughtered couldnt it have been made a nicer one ?
What utter bollocks. If they were of any decent quality then they would be sold on for riding.
[/ QUOTE ]
pmsl
as i said earlier it is sad if this was thier last journey before they were slaughtered couldnt it have been made a nicer one ?
sarahgill
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
What utter bollocks. If they were of any decent quality then they would be sold on for riding.
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Hear Hear! did no one watch the F-word??? they visited horse farms in France where they were bred for meat not for riding, these horses are like cows, they aren't broken in or handled, it is sad but thats life as they say..
What utter bollocks. If they were of any decent quality then they would be sold on for riding.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hear Hear! did no one watch the F-word??? they visited horse farms in France where they were bred for meat not for riding, these horses are like cows, they aren't broken in or handled, it is sad but thats life as they say..
PaintboxEDT
Well-Known Member
yep i watched the f word it was very interesting !
just because we dont eat horse meat doesnt mean to say the rest of the world cant its the food chain at the end of the day !!
we are an animal loving country or so they say but theres equally as much cruelty here !!
we cant save the world !!!!
just because we dont eat horse meat doesnt mean to say the rest of the world cant its the food chain at the end of the day !!
we are an animal loving country or so they say but theres equally as much cruelty here !!
we cant save the world !!!!
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Are you all reading all of this thread? Or just some of the postings? I just wonder because the thing that has impressed me about this exercise is that these few horses are going to be used as the focus for a campaign for "Hook not Hoof". In other words, it would benefit the ponies from the UK that are herded up off the mountains, transported to Ireland to avoid legislation, and then sent live to Europe for slaughter. Needy equines at home and abroad in other words.
I always pause when people say "charity begins at home" - it's a nice pat statement to make, but it makes me wonder "Why?". Why can't those who want to extend charity do so in whatever way and whatever country they wish, without criticism from others? Just as you can choose to support charity "at home", others might decide they have different priorities. In the case of the people who have rescued these horses, and who are now working to support the Hook not Hoof campaign, I know many of them support charitable and needy causes in the UK as well. So why try to lay down the law to them?
I fund raise for a charity that helps people who are HIV+. It is frustrating sometimes when UK charities (like the Mercury Trust) state that they will only give grants to charities working in Africa. But then, if they see that as a priority who am I to question? There are certainly more people in Africa affected by HIV than the UK, so it has a certain logic. What I'm saying is that I think we should just be happy that there are people out there doing something for their own personal causes, wherever in the world that might be.
I always pause when people say "charity begins at home" - it's a nice pat statement to make, but it makes me wonder "Why?". Why can't those who want to extend charity do so in whatever way and whatever country they wish, without criticism from others? Just as you can choose to support charity "at home", others might decide they have different priorities. In the case of the people who have rescued these horses, and who are now working to support the Hook not Hoof campaign, I know many of them support charitable and needy causes in the UK as well. So why try to lay down the law to them?
I fund raise for a charity that helps people who are HIV+. It is frustrating sometimes when UK charities (like the Mercury Trust) state that they will only give grants to charities working in Africa. But then, if they see that as a priority who am I to question? There are certainly more people in Africa affected by HIV than the UK, so it has a certain logic. What I'm saying is that I think we should just be happy that there are people out there doing something for their own personal causes, wherever in the world that might be.
SAL66
Well-Known Member
Tiny Pony, couldn't have said that any better if I'd tried.i think the original thread was trying to prevent the transportation of live horses in this case, and i totally agree, its disgraceful.
yes people eat horses, whilst i wouldn't choose to , its other peoples choices and that's fine.
Surely it doesn't matter what animal is killed for food if it was done correctly and again any animal shouldn't endure days of suffering to meet their death.
yes charity begins at home so some would say, but charity is welcomed everywhere and shouldn't be scorned upon if people are interested in helping horse's abroad.
But i am not aware, and correct me if I'm wrong, of any horse in the U.K that have to travel days without food and water and often die on route before they are humanely slaughtered hence why people are keen to help the horse on Dept 41.
That is the point of the thread, not who thinks eating meat is right or wrong, not jumping on each other when opinions differ, but the welfare of innocent horses that are made to suffer unneccessarily when they could travel as hook not hoof.
And this would apply to cows, sheep. pigs Etc Etc Etc. I cannot understand anybody who would not support this.
yes people eat horses, whilst i wouldn't choose to , its other peoples choices and that's fine.
Surely it doesn't matter what animal is killed for food if it was done correctly and again any animal shouldn't endure days of suffering to meet their death.
yes charity begins at home so some would say, but charity is welcomed everywhere and shouldn't be scorned upon if people are interested in helping horse's abroad.
But i am not aware, and correct me if I'm wrong, of any horse in the U.K that have to travel days without food and water and often die on route before they are humanely slaughtered hence why people are keen to help the horse on Dept 41.
That is the point of the thread, not who thinks eating meat is right or wrong, not jumping on each other when opinions differ, but the welfare of innocent horses that are made to suffer unneccessarily when they could travel as hook not hoof.
And this would apply to cows, sheep. pigs Etc Etc Etc. I cannot understand anybody who would not support this.
Fairynuff
Well-Known Member
I do believe that the BUYERS of theses 'meathorses' are being TAKEN FOR A RIDE!!!
After the other thread regarding 'DEPT 41' and the horses destined for Italy, I had a look at the price of horse meat (LIVE) on the Camera of Commerce (ITALIAN) website.
Suckling foals 2.10-2.40 euros a kilo (live weight).
Weaned foals 1.60-1.80 a kilo (live weight).
Adult equines 1.30-1.80 a kilo (live weight).
The 15 month old blanket dun (if my maths are correct) 700 euro divided by 1.60 = 437.5 kilos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These people are making a fortune out of your blinkered goodwill and you are stimulating the turnover thereby sending other horses to the slaughter-the Italian butchers already know how many equines they will need in one year-they know the turnover and will fill it anyway whether you buy some slaughter bound horses or not!! You have effectively condemned other horse to take the place of those you have bought
. I hope you stop buying these animals who were probably bred for meat anyway.
Mairi.
After the other thread regarding 'DEPT 41' and the horses destined for Italy, I had a look at the price of horse meat (LIVE) on the Camera of Commerce (ITALIAN) website.
Suckling foals 2.10-2.40 euros a kilo (live weight).
Weaned foals 1.60-1.80 a kilo (live weight).
Adult equines 1.30-1.80 a kilo (live weight).
The 15 month old blanket dun (if my maths are correct) 700 euro divided by 1.60 = 437.5 kilos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These people are making a fortune out of your blinkered goodwill and you are stimulating the turnover thereby sending other horses to the slaughter-the Italian butchers already know how many equines they will need in one year-they know the turnover and will fill it anyway whether you buy some slaughter bound horses or not!! You have effectively condemned other horse to take the place of those you have bought
Mairi.
Honeypots
Well-Known Member
because they just automatically assume that anyone involved in anything to do with this kind of thing is some kind of tree hugging, pony patting wet fart!!!!
SAL66
Well-Known Member
Mairi.
You miss the point totally , of course they'll be more horses that's life, people making money out of other people is called business and it happens everywhere, dodgy dealers in the U.k take people for a ride often. If a horse is bought and end's up with a lovely life , the person who paid over the money is happy where's the crime in that, it really wouldn't matter if at the end of the day No horses were saved, there would be plenty of other's waiting to take their place, but a couple saved in my eyes is no bad thing, and if you look at it another way meat eaters are the ones that condemned these horse's to this way and not the people who try and help lessen the suffering.
Its not the killing and eating of these horses that is the problem , but the suffering that they face.
You miss the point totally , of course they'll be more horses that's life, people making money out of other people is called business and it happens everywhere, dodgy dealers in the U.k take people for a ride often. If a horse is bought and end's up with a lovely life , the person who paid over the money is happy where's the crime in that, it really wouldn't matter if at the end of the day No horses were saved, there would be plenty of other's waiting to take their place, but a couple saved in my eyes is no bad thing, and if you look at it another way meat eaters are the ones that condemned these horse's to this way and not the people who try and help lessen the suffering.
Its not the killing and eating of these horses that is the problem , but the suffering that they face.
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
"But i am not aware, and correct me if I'm wrong, of any horse in the U.K that have to travel days without food and water..." there is a loophole in the law that means this can happen via Ireland. Someone like Equine Market Watch could give you the full details.
Mairi, I seriously don't know what you're going on about. It seems completely clear to me from the information given that this little rescue exercise relates to a small number of horses, in aid of a much larger cause. This initial action is going to have no impact on the immediate meat market whatsoever, there are not enough horses being purchased to impact significantly on numbers sold for meat by the farmers. What it MIGHT do is secure more humane travelling conditions for slaughter horses in the future. How good would that be? If you don't get that then fine, but please don't insult the the people involved who brought the horses, who had eyes wide open about price etc. (Not me incidentally, I have rescued in the past, and it happened to be from "at home").
Mairi, I seriously don't know what you're going on about. It seems completely clear to me from the information given that this little rescue exercise relates to a small number of horses, in aid of a much larger cause. This initial action is going to have no impact on the immediate meat market whatsoever, there are not enough horses being purchased to impact significantly on numbers sold for meat by the farmers. What it MIGHT do is secure more humane travelling conditions for slaughter horses in the future. How good would that be? If you don't get that then fine, but please don't insult the the people involved who brought the horses, who had eyes wide open about price etc. (Not me incidentally, I have rescued in the past, and it happened to be from "at home").
SAL66
Well-Known Member
Honeypots, that's the only thing on this post that me laugh!!!
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Me too - I haven't hugged a tree for weeks! I eat meat, and I'm realistic about people wanting to eat horses. I don't particularly want to, as some of my best friends are horses... but I suspect the odd steak in my past...
I've seen dreadful conditions in the UK at a dealer's yard - and done something about it, resulting in dangerous times. I've nagged the RSPCA to visit fields full of neglected ponies, where they eventually hauled some out dead. And I've "rescued" a pony that was likely to end up pts. None of this would stop me doing something worthwhile abroad if I thought I'd like to, and if I did then the price isn't necessarily going to be the issue. Sometimes you go over the odds to do something worthwhile.
This initiative taken by a few people could have huge and long-term results that will improve the welfare of 1,000's of animals destined for the table. If it doesn't at least they tried their best. The least that can happen is a few horses get an alternative future. Hats off to them.
I've seen dreadful conditions in the UK at a dealer's yard - and done something about it, resulting in dangerous times. I've nagged the RSPCA to visit fields full of neglected ponies, where they eventually hauled some out dead. And I've "rescued" a pony that was likely to end up pts. None of this would stop me doing something worthwhile abroad if I thought I'd like to, and if I did then the price isn't necessarily going to be the issue. Sometimes you go over the odds to do something worthwhile.
This initiative taken by a few people could have huge and long-term results that will improve the welfare of 1,000's of animals destined for the table. If it doesn't at least they tried their best. The least that can happen is a few horses get an alternative future. Hats off to them.
claire1976
Well-Known Member
There are more horses transported live for slaughter than any other animal, including cows and sheep. 84% of horses involved in live transportation end up in Italy for meat. In many countries horses are a meat animal just the same as cows etc. We cannot change this. We can however campaign to stop the live transportation and the ILPH is actively doing this.
Buying horses destined for meat will only fuel the market more, whilst you may save the odd one your doing nothing to help the remaining ones.
Aim your efforts towards horse charities who are working towards improving the conditions for these poor creatures.
Buying horses destined for meat will only fuel the market more, whilst you may save the odd one your doing nothing to help the remaining ones.
Aim your efforts towards horse charities who are working towards improving the conditions for these poor creatures.
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Who are you talking to Claire1976? If you are addressing this to the people who have brought these Dept 41 horses then maybe you need to read up a bit.
Or maybe you are agreeing, sorry, I wasn't sure.
claire1976
Well-Known Member
I wasn't aiming it at anyone. Sorry for any confusion. I was simply stating some facts about horses for meat that hadn't been mentioned, and also stating that we cannot stop the horse meat trade. In general, I was saying ppl should look to the charities for advice on how to tackle the issue.