PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT THESE HORSES

[Dusty]

I also wonder how many who condemn and critisise and accuse you of fuelling the meat trade, are actually involved in any other way to put a stop to this.
Some folks just have the compassion as well as the balls to put their money where their mouth is!

 

[AmyMay]

It's a desperately sad story. And one that unfortunately affects 100's of horses in EU countries a year.

Whilst I am not opposed to horses going for meat, I am opposed to the horrendous conditions and abuse many of these poor animals find themselves exposed to.

I haven't read the other posts, but do work with the ILPH who are doing some wonderful work in this area, and are trying to improve the terrible travelling conditions of horses like this.

 

[wilder]

obviously pixie you haven,t read all the threads then have you these couple of meat nags as you so politley put it are a means to an end have you gone and actually looked at the hook not hoof campaign which we fully support (said once again)

 

[wilder]

and to be quite honest i don,t need to be patronised and i certainly don,t want a pat on the head for doing this i want
people to be aware of what goes on and this thread has had over 1000 views so maybe we are just hitting home to some people

 

[pixie]

So I've just commented throughout this thread but not actually read it? Sure.

 

[JM07]

[ QUOTE ]
yes, well done, you've rescued a couple of meat nags, but what about the thousands of other horses? You've just created a couple of extra slots in the meat wagon to be filled with a couple more horses. If you really want to help them, then you should be campaigning for better transport conditions.

[/ QUOTE ]

well said....

this country has, IMO, upped the anti with the new "WIT" law...

it's a shame things take so long on the continent.

and yes, the way the horses are transported is distasteful, not only in France but the former eastern bloc do a pretty hefty trade in live transportation...

i'm soryy but "saving" horses from the meatman, be it here or on the continent, is just putting extra sterling/euros in the coffers to cause more misery........THAT is distasteful!...and misguided.

 

[Diesky]

pixie & RHT- did you read my post? its not about the meat nags being rescued which is the point its about proving that it isnt like Mr Ramsay said - it isnt a nice jolly farm that horses live in happy wilderness till the day they are moved

They arent horses bred for meat

and they arent 'meat nags' they are horses who can help to raise the profile of the journey from the slaughter house - these horses have already raised huge publicity - if feed companies use them on promotions that will help.

RHT What are you doing to stop the trade other than criticise those who are at least trying?

 

[SAL66]

I shake my head in disbelief when people mention that they were "bred for meat anyway", why should that make a bl**dy difference, they shouldn't have to suffer end of.
I also can't believe that people criticise others who help these poor horses and i don't for one moment think that saving the odd horse makes any impact on those waiting to meet their makers .
it's easy to turn a blind eye and do nothing, helping doesn't mean you have to buy a horse, but support the hook not hoof campaign in any way you can , after all I would have thought that the majority of user's of this forum are animal lovers and would support such a campaign.

 

[Dusty]

quote
i'm soryy but "saving" horses from the meatman, be it here or on the continent, is just putting extra sterling/euros in the coffers to cause more misery........THAT is distasteful!...and misguided

I dont see where the "extra" comes from..they would still get their money be it from a slaughter house or a private home.
As for causing more misery, how do you work that one out, some lives have been saved, so instead of "x" amount going to slaughter..."x" amount have gone to slaughter and "x" amount on to live.

"Distasteful"?
To buy some horses otherwise destined to suffer an horrendous journey and death?
To then use these horses to help raise awareness of what really happens to animals transported live for meat?
"Misguided"?
To show some compassion?

 

[Fairynuff]

Nothing new is being put forward by anyone. Yes, I think we all support the 'Hook not Hoof' campaign and a lot of people on this forum do a lot for various charities and have rescue animals. As you know, I do not agree with buying meat horses from France or anywhere else for any purpose. I think the use of photos and videos of the horses being herded, transported etc would suffice and probably be more effective. Everyone to their own! Mairi-Italian resident, member of Ilph, OIPA and Italian Anti-Viv.

 

[Tia]

QR -

I'd just like to say that I am not a member of that board.....just incase anyone was wondering.

I also agree with Mairi and Pixie.

 

[Dusty]

Mairi, yes it probably would be more effective, but what bothers me is not the disagreeing of folks buying these horses, but the sometimes sarcastic and uncalled for remarks, everyone is entitled to their opinion and to voice it but surely they could remain polite?
I dont think it fair to be quite rude and sarcastic to the people who have bought these horses just because they felt so saddened that they couldnt pass them by.
As you say "everyone to their own" and this I agree with.
If people feel that this is a way they can make a difference, then what right does anyone else have to scoff them or to be rude?
Disagree..yes..and perhaps agree to differ without the snidey comments.

 

[ISHmad]

Whatever happened to us being a nation of horse lovers. Reading some of these comments is truly shocking.

To those people who say what about the UK ones, I agree. But surely a horse in need is a horse in need, wherever he or she may be? And if people are prepared to save them from being fattened up and having a horrendous journey thereafter what is the problem with that? To think that they get more money for mares in foal for meat is truy sickening.

No I'm not a vegetarian, no I'm not a tree hugger - but I would prefer to hug a tree than turn a blind eye to the suffering of ANY horse.

I will continue to support EMW, ILPH and Brookes Animal Hospital. But take my hat off to the group of people who in a remarkably short time managed to save several horse's lives.

They should feel proud of themselves for actually getting off their backsides and doing something. To get all this negative commentary is a real shame, but that is life I guess.

 

[Tia]

I don't think it has anything to do with being animal lovers or not - it has to do with some people being realistic and others, perhaps, being emotional.

I live in a country which has the worlds largest horse-meat industry......buying a couple of horses does not change a thing. Using these bought horses as some sort of (hopeful) leverage rarely works I'm afraid. Petitions are what you want to do and ILPH appear to be trying to do it....they are the professionals; support them with your signatures, your donations, whatever.....but trying to make some sort of business out of this seems a bit bizarre.

 

[Tinypony]

For those who keep saying that the ILPH should be involved, and that people should support their campaign. This is one of the ILPH responses to the the Dept 41 initiative. If you want to know how it's all progressing then maybe pour a glass of wine and visit the IH discussion group

:
[ QUOTE ]
Dear Diane



Many thanks indeed for your e-mail. We are very encouraged to read that the IHDG is keen to take action to halt the long distance transportation for slaughter in Europe. As you clearly know, this is a campaign that the ILPH has been committed to for many years; in fact it was one of our founding issues.



Your timing couldn’t have been better to get in touch. We are in the process of recruiting active campaigners right now ready for action in around September / October of this year. We need people who are able to visit their local MP, generate publicity for the campaign in their local press as well as arrange profile raising events. We also need those who are simply happy to sign a petition or write a letter to the EU Commission. There are activities for everyone no matter how much time they have on their hands.



To give you some more detail about our campaign, our ultimate aim is to end the long distance transport of horses to slaughter in Europe and replace it with a carcase only trade. We are currently campaigning for a decrease in journey times and stricter enforcement of Regulation 1/2005 (which was introduced in January of this year). Recent research commissioned by the ILPH and carried out by Emma Leckie (which was launched last month) confirms that if Regulation 1/2005 was adhered to by transporters, journeys of over 24 hours would become unprofitable and actually make a loss. Journeys under 24 hours would become less profitable than the carcase only alternative. This supports our field evidence, which found that many journeys were being carried out illegally, with too few rest stops and over-stocked lorries without single-stalling.



If you would be kind enough to establish from your group who would be prepared to be very active campaigners and who would prefer to take a more passive role but have their voice heard and then e-mail me their names, addresses, telephone number and e-mail addresses, that would be fantastic. Alternatively you could pass on my e-mail address / mailing address and ask them to get in direct touch with this information.



Thanks again for getting in touch and I look forward to hearing from you.



Kind regards, Emma



[/ QUOTE ]

 

[coffeeadict]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, they have to be microchipped but what documents are needed? They will surely need Coggins papers which means blood testing and extra vets fees etc. I am interested as I have travelled horses all over Europe and would like to think that everything is done legally and with the health of resident British livestock coming first and foremost.

Mairi.

[/ QUOTE ]
Up until today (due to new restrictions following foot and mouth outbreak) registered horses travelling between France, UK and Ireland have not required a health certificate to travel. There has been a tripartite agreement between the 3 countries. For other european countries horses require a TRACES (health cert). This has no requirement for coggins test. Horses are deemed as being healthy by veterinary examination alone. All horses transporters operating within the EU come under very strict legislation. They cannot travel without food and water, they must have rest breaks of 24 hours after 24 hours travel, lorries must have fans etc. etc.

The vile transport conditions that many horse have to endure are not carried out by European legal transporters. There are illegal transporters operating in every country - unfortunately fuelled by people hoping to get the cheapest transport available - without checking if their transporter (and their lorries) has been approved.

The tripartite agreement would need to be ended in order to stop horses been sent through Ireland to France. Horses travelling from Ireland to any other countries must have a health certificate - and are examined by DOA vets on the docks. These vets will not allow horses to travel if requirements are not met.

Remember that horses can be shipped from the UK to France with just their passport and an export lic. It is only under 148 cms that have the protection of minimum value.

I could not agree that all animals heading for slaughter are not fit for riding horses. We personally have bought 3 French trotters (one only 3 years old) to save them from slaughter. One of these is now just a short way from Grade A. He cost us 500 euros at the time. The other 2 are jumping at 1.20M level. They cost 700 euros each.

The yard where we bought them was a complete nightmare. There were many animals very old and unfit to travel. On one part of the premises horses were suffering from strangles. We had no intention of buying any horses there at the time - but it was impossible to walk away. However I agree that by buying these horses we only left spaces for 3 more. The horses at that place were destined for Italy as well. The trade is huge. At the time we reported the place to the ILPH.

I am totally opposed to the live transport of any animal for long distances for slaughter. It is totally unnecessary.

The 2007 regulations regarding the transport of horses in theory has gone a long way to try and ensure that horses travel in satisfactory conditions, however as always it is the use of illegal transporters that allows inhumane conditions to continue. In order to try and change this it is necessary to lobby the various authorities in each country to ensure that these transporters are stopped.

 

[htobago]

Diesky please don't take any notice of the critics - I think they just hadn't read the initial posts very carefully. We all want the same thing, I'm sure: for an end to the horrific transport conditions for live animals - and if a few individual horses like your mare can be saved along the way, well, so much the better.

I think you are great to have rescued your mare! In fact, I think you are a GEM! (LOL!

)

 

[burtie]

Tinypony,

I can't see anywhere in the letter it suggests buying meat horses abroad and shipping them even further back to the UK to support their campaign?

 

[Tia]

To be honest Burtie, there are many many question marks I have about this "campaign".

I think there are a lot of people being carted along by the assumption that this is a charity.....sounds like a business venture to me to be quite honest.

 

[burtie]

I totally agree.

 

[paulo]

Well said dusty!

 

[JM07]

[ QUOTE ]


RHT What are you doing to stop the trade other than criticise those who are at least trying?

[/ QUOTE ]

what do "I" do to "stop" the trade?

nobody can "stop" it...there will always be a market for horsemeat...

personally, i DON'T rescue crap from markets/fattening farms to put money into the pockets of the meatmen, to enable them to buy more "rescue" cases. i'm not that deluded/naive

I give £'s per year to the ILPH...Who IMO are doing things the CORRECT way to ensure legislation is brought in, monitored, adhered to so these animals can end their lives in a way that avoids hours of transportation from country of origin to slaughterhouse.

THAT IS WHAT I DO...

and my conscience is clear........

 

[Dusty]

quote
crap from markets/fattening farms

not the sort of attitude one would expect from someone who donates £s a year to the ILPH!!!

 

[JM07]

[ QUOTE ]
quote
crap from markets/fattening farms

not the sort of attitude one would expect from someone who donates £s a year to the ILPH!!!

[/ QUOTE ]


am sure if you were on first name terms with a few of their field officers, who i've spoken to out a fair few times, then yes, that is the term used.


take off the rose-coloured specs...NOT every Equine on this planet is remotely useful.....

 

[Diesky]

RHT - I just find your posts sad - your lack of respect for life makes me realise why there is so much animal cruelty inthe world - by trade I think life export was clearly meant given the topic of conversation.

People said each to their own you are here merrily being rude calling people deluded /naive because they have different morals and care about a life no matter whether it is useful or not - why must it be your way is the only right way?(why must horses be useful - not all people are useful to them)

you keep on being rude and agressive to people who do things differently to you and i'll keep on plugging away to get things changed by doing things my way - and one day Ill post a pic of my crap from the market and be happy with my choices

 

[Dusty]

Quote
am sure if you were on first name terms with a few of their field officers

I am.

Quote
take off the rose-coloured specs...NOT every Equine on this planet is remotely useful

I dont think anyone ever said that every equine was useful, just that they all deserve a chance at life and the dignity of a humane death and not to have to endure the suffering they do whilst travelling to these places in these countries.


My friends and yes I can use the term "friends" in the ILPH do not care whether or not a horse is useful, when they see cruelty, they act, whether it an expensive useful event horse, or a cheap and unrideable one.

Take off your blinkers, not everyone on this planet sees horses as a commodity and believes that they have to be useful in order to be treated properly.

 

[pixie]

So, how do you go about choosing which one to rescue? How do you know which one is going to be unlucky enough to be transported by a dodgy company that flaunts the EU animal transport laws?

 

[Dusty]

I guess the choosing part would just come down to whichever caught your eye or whatever...very hard to explain or define why you would choose a particular animal over the rest.
I believe and I may stand to be corrected here..but that majority of folks dealing in this trade do use the dodgy transporters..why would they bother to fork out money for a reputable transporter..this would take away from their profits gained and they would be then spending money ensuring that these horses are getting treated the same way as "useful" horses..sadly not what this trade is all about.
Because of the loopholes thay can get away with it... as the animals are being transported to either market or slaughter house, then it is deemed that they do not need nor deserve the rest stops etc which the "useful" horses get.

 

[pixie]

So its like "I like the look of that one, so it deserves to die less than all the others"?

 

[Dusty]

Thats a kind of strange way of putting it Pixie, I would imagine that the people choosing would have been in turmoil over it .. it may even be a case of.."Well thats an in foal mare" so perhaps I should take that one..or "Thats a weanling" or even "Look at the state of that one"..who knows except the folks doing the choosing...how can any of us who havent taken one actually say for sure what it was that motivated these folks into making the choice.
At the end of the day its not about "that one deserves NOT to die more than any of the others"..its a heartbreaking choice for the people who have decided to take one of these horses.

You see these folks are not looking at these horses and thinking "which of these could be useful to me" thay are just ordinary compassionate people trying to make a difference in a way that they thought might help.
Most of the horses taken were those who were destined for the journey in the very near future, and of course they took into account if they had the provisions to take one and if it were best to have a mare/gelding ect join them..I would imagine that this swayed the choice much more so than "I like the look of that one".

Its a very mixed world we live in and some folks go out and buy a horse NOT because they lilke the look of it or because it has the ability to go places etc..but because they just love horses in general and it matters not to them if the horse can get them rosettes or looks good..they just enjoy having it and caring for it.
I do not for one single second think that any of these people would have made a choice based on "I like the look of that one" or "That one deserves less to die than any of the others"..Do You???