please tell me... do you leave a hoof abscess to burst or have it dug out?

[Shysmum]

Good news Victoria (well partly). x

 

[scarymare]

I did get a couple dug out by my vet. However have had soooo many this summer that have just left them all. I had to hold my nerve when one went on for 4 days but just at point of calling vet (would be a saturday) must have burst itself as horse went sound.

Interesting point about the asymptomatic ones though.

 

[Brightbay]

The other thing that people seem to be forgetting, is the fact that strictly speaking, it is illegal for a Farrier to diagnose lameness. Yes, the Law is idiotic sometimes.

It is also illegal for anybody other than a vet to carry out "surgery". So if the farrier's digging results in blood, rather than pus, they're breaking the law.

It's a fine line. I would always follow the advice of my vet - and her advice has been "tub, poultice, keep the horse moving around and call me if nothing happens or if there's swelling above the level of the coronary band".

 

[Tnavas]

One thing that was always drummed into me by the people I trained with and my vet was that you should avoid the abscess bursting out of the top in the coronary band as it can permenantly affect the future growth of the foot. It can als be very hard to keep clean and may repeatedly infect as gravity encourages the infected fluids to travel downwards.

My filly has driven me mad over the first three years of her life with multiple abscesses. While most have drained via the sole or heel three have come to the top of the coronary band and left her with damaged hooves.

 

[vikkiandmonica]

Dug out by a farrier or the can sometimes burst upwards so it's much harder to get all the pus etc. out than if it's been burst by a farrier through the sole. Gravity helps clear them out a lot, as well as poulticing, so it's always better if you can dry and get them out from underneath where the abscess is

 

[Brightbay]

One thing that was always drummed into me by the people I trained with and my vet was that you should avoid the abscess bursting out of the top in the coronary band as it can permenantly affect the future growth of the foot. It can als be very hard to keep clean and may repeatedly infect as gravity encourages the infected fluids to travel downwards.

My filly has driven me mad over the first three years of her life with multiple abscesses. While most have drained via the sole or heel three have come to the top of the coronary band and left her with damaged hooves.

And yet, as you will have noticed by reading the whole thread, many vets do indeed advise encouraging abscesses to burst upwards, and many people (myself included) find this is the least problematic type. They do not become reinfected, even with horse on full turnout, and while there is a small split in the hoof wall, it just grows down and disappears when it reaches ground level, with no problems.

Also, while gravity may help them drain downwards, pressure of a hoof landing and lifting repeatedly squeezes pus upwards ;-)

Maybe people would try to accept that there is no single agreed cause of abscesses, there is no single agreed treatment for abscesses, and there are many different way in which they can form, drain and heal

Everybody thinks their way is the only way - but a quick scan through this thread shows that it's simply not the case

 

[tallyho!]

I am feeling really quite grossed out thinking about tooth abscess... I had one a few years ago. It wasn't painful and I didn't even know I had an abscess until my dentist told me I had one. It was my front tooth, and there was a drainage tract just under where my nose is inside my lip obviously not outside, and I never even knew!

Probably had stinky breath... Ugh. Sometimes I really gross myself out.

Anyway, I had root canal surgery on that tooth. Can't really compare it to a hoof abscess but I thought I would gross you all out too

 

[Tnavas]

There is no evidence whatsoever that leaving them to burst on their own increases the risk of bone infection, which also happens in ones that are opened by a vet or farrier. It's rare. It happens. BUt there is no demonstrable link between how the abscess finds its way out and bone infection and many vets and farriers advise leaving it, although not the majority.

Point me in the direction of the information that says this please?

I've seen this happen twice and recently there was a thread in the news at the top of the page about a horse that lost its hoof due to infection.

So now that's three I know of.

Is it worth the risk?

For some the thought of poulticing a foot is a nightmare - its hardwork and time consuming but I always feel worth it. My farrier is a treasure - I only have to text him if one of the horses goes lame and he will be there within hours to check for the abscess.

I did have one horse years ago where even with an Xray the abscess would not reveal itself. Finally the vet unable to diagnose why the horse was lame said, turn him out. I had the farrier take the shoes off and trim him up before turning out and with this trim the pus erupted out from the sole, we then poulticed to clear the remaining infection. Once this had burst the horse was immediately sound.

 

[cptrayes]

it's always better if you can dry and get them out from underneath where the abscess is

No it's not. They recover fine if they burst at the coronet and you don't have a hole in the bottom of the foot for several weeks grinding in the dirt.

 

[cptrayes]

Point me in the direction of the information that says this please?

I've seen this happen twice and recently there was a thread in the news at the top of the page about a horse that lost its hoof due to infection.

So now that's three I know of.

Is it worth the risk?

There is no risk that you can identify. Infected bones happen, rarely. You've seen it twice in horses with an abscess left to burst? I've seen it once in one that was cut out and heard of another from a friend. So, we have two examples each and neither are statistically relevant. There is no evidence that they happen any more with abscesses which break their own way out than ones that are cut open.

 

[cptrayes]

What would have happened IF I had left it another day !!! infection in the bone.

Almost certainly not. It was tracking UPWARDS, which is why your farrier cut so high up the side of the foot. It was heading, as they normally do, for the coronet band, not towards any bone - look at the hole!!!

 

[amandap]

I did have one horse years ago where even with an Xray the abscess would not reveal itself. Finally the vet unable to diagnose why the horse was lame said, turn him out. I had the farrier take the shoes off and trim him up before turning out and with this trim the pus erupted out from the sole, we then poulticed to clear the remaining infection. Once this had burst the horse was immediately sound.

I wonder if removing the shoe along with turn out (more movement) enabled the hoof to expand and contract better helped too?

 

[cptrayes]

Perhaps it's worth pointing out at this stage that the VAST majority of abscesses break out of the heel or coronet of their own accord without the owner ever realising that the horse had one. You only have to look around at the number of horses which have small holes or flaw marks in the hoof wall, which grow downwards with the foot, to realise this.

 

[Tnavas]

I wonder if removing the shoe along with turn out (more movement) enabled the hoof to expand and contract better helped too?

the shoe was already off the lame foot and had initially been investigated by the farrier and no abscess found. He never got to be turned out in the end as once the abscess was found the foot was poulticed and cleaned up.

Many abscess re infect when the foot isn't cleaned up thoroughly - I have a system with the farrier for dealing with a now sound abscessed horse.

Poultice boot stays on the horse until the farrier is ready to work on the horse.
A clean feed sack is ready to place beneath the foot when the poultice boot is removed - the farrier tries to avoid placing the foot to the ground until he has plugged the hole with stockholm tar and cottonwool. The foot is then placed on the clean sack while the leatherpad and shoe are prepared.

 

[Bojangles]

Leave well alone to burst out by itself!! Beau has had his fair amount of them. One that took 6 weeks to burst he was on off lame he already previous had one in same foot so I knew the signs. Even the vet agree with leaving it alone. I won't have his foot dugged ever again we had so many other problems whist waiting for foot to grow. I don't give bute or anibods anymore I've learnt a lot though out the many ones he had throw. Left alone it cleard up quickly and no big holes just a pin pick mostly.

I suppose everyone different in so many ways I only got the vet out for one that took weeks to come out to keep others quite!! As I was very aware he was lame and didn't need to hear it all as I knew it was a abscess. It bugs me so much at times!!

 

[vikkiandmonica]

No it's not. They recover fine if they burst at the coronet and you don't have a hole in the bottom of the foot for several weeks grinding in the dirt.

Well when horses at the yard I'm at ever had abscesses, they were always dug out from underneath, poulticed until the dressing came out clean and then the farrier would fill the hole with cotton wool and stockhome tar, and they never had a problem and came back into work once the hole was filled. I know of one horse who's abscess burst out the coronet band and the horse was off work for much longer as even hot poulticing wasn't drawing out the pus particularly well due to it being above the site of the abscess.

I guess it's just people's choice, but digging out has always worked for me.

 

[Tnavas]

Alowing the abscess to come out at the top also compromises the integrity of the hoof for between a year and fifteen months leaving the foot open to other problems.

Making a small drainage hole in the sole quickly drains the puss and the sole is repaired within a short space of time.

My feeling is that if the horse is lame - he is in pain and if by removing a small portion of sole I can relieve the pain I would much prefer that.

I'm currently dealing witha foot infection myself - its a small area on the sight of an operation scar that has become infected - it hurts like hell and makes me feel miserable and despite being kept clean the best a foot can be kept clean the infection has returned.

If my foot is hurting with no solid structure restricting it then I really feel for the hose with an abscess inside an unyielding wall.

 

[Brightbay]

Alowing the abscess to come out at the top also compromises the integrity of the hoof for between a year and fifteen months leaving the foot open to other problems.

Would you like to point us towards the evidence for this?

This thread is an absolute classic of people with fixed ideas completely failing to see any information that doesn't agree with their own view of the world, and extrapolating from single case examples (some of which were things they once read about or heard from a friend of a friend) in order to support personal theories

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Horse was totally sound and living out with this hoof. No reinfection or other problems, it just grew out.

 

[ihatework]

For me the ones that have never caused a problem are the ones that have worked their way out quickly at either the frog or the bulb of heel.

I've had a few cut out, no radical butchery though!! They take a little longer depending on the horse - a week or so post opening them up, but generally not a big issue to manage, farriers usually conservative in their approach.

The only nightmare one I've had was one that came out of the coronet eventually (we are talking 2-3 weeks down the line), neither vet or farrier could locate it so we waited. I then had a few weeks after bursting of reinfection and in total about 6 weeks lameness with at one point talk of surgery. Not keen to go back there in a hurry!

 

[Dora5]

My hoorse today has had a small part of his foot dug out to let the abscess drain, luckily the abscess had been seaping already so it hadn't tracked up the foot but my vet did a very neat job and took out the smallest amount of hoof possible so I'm pleased! The pic above looks quite severe but I guess it all depends where the abscess is and how bad it is. I did leave my horses for a few weeks but it wasn't getting better which is why I asked the vet to come out

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

This is bad advice, sorry Leviathan.

Antibiotics are contra-indicated for foot abscesses which are not open. They can cause serious trouble with the abscess being suppressed but not cured and then causing greater problems when they fire up again.

Antibiotics should normally only be given when the abscess is open, and then they are normally completely unnecessary.

Please do not bug your vet for antibiotics for abscesses. They may give you them just to shut you up, as they did a friend of mine. That abscess caused problems for months.


Don't panic either, folks, pedal bone infection is extremely uncommon and there is no evidence whatsoever that it happens more with an abscess left to burst for itself than with one which is cut open. Abscesses almost always find a way out easily through a weak point in the foot, usually either up the laminae to the coronet band, out through the join between the bottom of the leg and the hoof bulb.

Sorry I should have made it more clear abscesses c that ares laminitis related anti biotics is a must

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

This is bad advice, sorry Leviathan.

Antibiotics are contra-indicated for foot abscesses which are not open.

I didn't actually say to be given before (unless lami)

Antibiotics should normally only be given when the abscess is open, and then they are normally completely unnecessary.

psst I know that was taught that back in 1979
.

Don't panic either, folks, pedal bone infection is extremely uncommon and there is no evidence whatsoever that it happens more with an abscess left to burst for itself than with one which is cut open. Abscesses almost always find a way out easily through a weak point in the foot, usually either up the laminae to the coronet band, out through the join between the bottom of the leg and the hoof bulb.

Actually your wrong there I know a few that have had it its more common than you think.

My mare's got infected the worst type septic.pedal osteitis .back in Feb which occurred because abscess came out the coronet

Now a new case :

I am now loosing her due to her bone dying (another thread in progress on that)

Osteomyelitis is horrid and so debilitation.

 

[cptrayes]

Sorry I should have made it more clear abscesses c that ares laminitis related anti biotics is a must

This isn't true either. Lots of laminitics have abscesses burst right at the centre of the coronet band where laminae have died at the toe and they do not require antibiotics. I have had two, one metabolic, one concussion. In fact in this case, there is often a wide channel (in on of my horses it was one inch wide ) from top to bottom of the foot down which it is easy to pour anything antibacterial to prevent it brewing up again. I'll try and find the picture that I have of him with two inches of the blade of a pair of scissors stuck down it.

 

[cptrayes]

Alowing the abscess to come out at the top also compromises the integrity of the hoof for between a year and fifteen months leaving the foot open to other problems.
.

Rubbish! Allowing the abscess to come out of the top leaves a small mark or a very thin split in the outer hoof wall. The laminae seal behind the hoof mark with horn (no, it does NOT only grow from the coronet band) and you can poke a pair of scissors into the hole and the horse will be quite happy. The hole can easily be disinfected with anything that delivers oxygen, as the bugs that cause the problems in dark damp spaces are shy and do not like having sex in oxygen

I really must find that photo!

 

[cptrayes]

Here we go. Two abscesses that recovered totally happily in days. The toe one was laminitic. The heel was a very compromised horse transitioning to barefoot who had had too much pressure on the frogs.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5ieuA4Wy_ig/UK-7YfAFZ2I/AAAAAAAAA8A/DkNO3YZPOlM/s640/0017.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-m56BiXyAduc/UK-7XSl5tpI/AAAAAAAAA78/EIy0Veg5aq8/s640/0016.JPG

 

[Tnavas]

Would you like to point us towards the evidence for this?

This thread is an absolute classic of people with fixed ideas completely failing to see any information that doesn't agree with their own view of the world, and extrapolating from single case examples (some of which were things they once read about or heard from a friend of a friend) in order to support personal theories

1 If you have any damage to a hoof that is initiated from within there will be a possibility that another type - eg Seedy toe will havea better chance of invading the hoof.

2 This not a thread as to who is right nad who is wrong its a debate on wether to open or leave alone an abscess. There are those of us mostly through experience fndit better and faster to havethe farrier fiind the abscess and drain it.

3 The incidences I gave as an example are from first hand experience - a friends horse kept on the yard where I worked. Following distruction the vet cut up the foot for us to view (said vet was one of the queens vets and I think knew what he was doing and talking about ) He advocated that any abscess be found and poulticed.

The second was a leg and foot and I also got the head got frm an abbatoir where the history was given to be by the owner of abbatoir.

Wether you open up or leave to drain is your personal choice. At least I know that by poulticing and encouraging the abscess to drain downwards I seriously reduce the risk of it travelling towards the bones.

 

[Tnavas]

Here we go. Two abscesses that recovered totally happily in days. The toe one was laminitic. The heel was a very compromised horse transitioning to barefoot who had had too much pressure on the frogs.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5ieuA4Wy_ig/UK-7YfAFZ2I/AAAAAAAAA8A/DkNO3YZPOlM/s640/0017.JPG

But look at the shape of the coronary band!

 

[Dora5]

I think its clear to say that there is no right or wrong and each horse and abscess is different. I think this thread has turned into a bit of an arguement and its easy to see that everyone has their preferences and there is no hard and fast rule. So .... While I think its always useful to share advice and experiences, I think everyone has had their say now

 

[tallyho!]

But look at the shape of the coronary band!

That will eventually straighten out. My 15 mo old filly had a similar one and you can't tell she ever had one at all!