Please tell me have I misjudged this?

[Abacus]

I have recently advertised two to three livery spaces. What I offer is ‘part grass livery’ to include twice-daily feeding, giving hay when needed, and checking. They live out 24/7.

I do it this way because
- I think they are happier and healthier living out
- less mucking out and cost of bedding
- horses are always fed together, no random people turning up to feed one and leaving the rest discontented. And feeding one horse doesn’t work as they live out in twos and threes.

I’ve had one person take up a space so far. The others I have spoken with mostly want pure DIY, or an allocated stable. Is there actually demand for what I’m offering? I thought people would like it but might have been wrong.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I’d like what you offer as long as each horse also has an allocated stable to be used as and when.

Do you have stabling available?

 

[Spotherisk]

Is there a covered area for grooming, tacking up, shoeing etc? Is there a stable if required ie if a horse had to be box rested, is that a possibility? Is there great hacking? And is the price right?

 

[Abacus]

I have 4/5 stables and if someone really wanted one I could allocate it. The ones here at the moment don’t have one including my three, so I want to keep at least two spare for occasional need. There are currently 4 horses here.

 

[Abacus]

Is there a covered area for grooming, tacking up, shoeing etc? Is there a stable if required ie if a horse had to be box rested, is that a possibility? Is there great hacking? And is the price right?

There’s a yard - not covered apart from an overhang but there are stables. Yes a horse could be box rested. Hacking is good and a nice arena. It’s £325 per month including the services as mentioned.

 

[ihatework]

How are you pitching this - are you thinking ridden or retired horses?

There is definitely a market for retirement livery although some (like me) would be very fussy on having land that didn’t get too muddy and good natural shelter.

If you are thinking ridden livery then there will be access to hacking, good school, storage facilities, dry area to from/tack etc to consider. There will always be people who think grass livery is a cheap option and should pay token amounts.

Are you getting any response and if so what is the feedback? Are you in a popular area / what other options do people have?

ETA does the £325 include the hay and feed?

 

[Jambarissa]

I think the arrangement sounds good. I wouldn't allow anyone to have their own stable, you'll find a few bringing in because it's bad weather etc then others will be left alone. But good to have available for illness or getting them dry for a few hours before vet or farrier.

DIY grass livery here is £60 a month, I'd expect to pay £5-£10 per day for someone to check twice a day. If you're providing the hay it seems fair.

I do think that most who want pure grass livery are on a budget so more likely to want diy.

Could you market as retirement livery instead?

 

[JFTDWS]

Round here (Suffolk) that would be very expensive for what you describe - you don’t mention poo picking? Maybe you have sufficient acreage to avoid that but that often has other drawbacks…

Of course that’s irrelevant if you’re in a more expensive part of the country.

 

[I'm Dun]

Round here (Suffolk) that would be very expensive for what you describe - you don’t mention poo picking? Maybe you have sufficient acreage to avoid that but that often has other drawbacks…

Of course that’s irrelevant if you’re in a more expensive part of the country.

Its more than I was paying in Oxford as well. Mine included hay and feed, rug changes all sorts, nice school, professional gallops and thousands of acres of off road hacking. Last year it was about £65 a week and I snapped their hands off

 

[Abacus]

How are you pitching this - are you thinking ridden or retired horses?

There is definitely a market for retirement livery although some (like me) would be very fussy on having land that didn’t get too muddy and good natural shelter.

If you are thinking ridden livery then there will be access to hacking, good school, storage facilities, dry area to from/tack etc to consider. There will always be people who think grass livery is a cheap option and should pay token amounts.

Are you getting any response and if so what is the feedback? Are you in a popular area / what other options do people have?

ETA does the £325 include the hay and feed?

I’m pitching primarily as ridden (there’s an arena and hacking) but retirement is of course possible. I can bring in for the farrier etc.

£325 is basically £40 pw for livery plus paying someone to feed etc twice per day. So no, doesn’t include the cost of hay and food - it would make a loss if it did. It’s an expensive area in Oxfordshire.

 

[Abacus]

Its more than I was paying in Oxford as well. Mine included hay and feed, rug changes all sorts, nice school, professional gallops and thousands of acres of off road hacking. Last year it was about £65 a week and I snapped their hands off

That’s incredible. Maybe I’ve got this wrong! But I couldn’t possibly include hay and feed for £65 pw

 

[Abacus]

Round here (Suffolk) that would be very expensive for what you describe - you don’t mention poo picking? Maybe you have sufficient acreage to avoid that but that often has other drawbacks…

Of course that’s irrelevant if you’re in a more expensive part of the country.

I rotate and harrow, and worm count.

 

[JFTDWS]

Your base charge for livery is more than double mine, and mine includes a stable and small group turnout (mine only) on very good quality land.

Suffolk is cheaper than Oxfordshire, but I’m not sure it’s that much cheaper.


BTW - there’s no way my yard can be making any real profit / it isn’t an inviting business prospect. I’m not in any way suggesting you’re unreasonable to charge what you need to charge to make ends meet. What I’m saying is, you’re probably being undercut by someone with lower overheads, or who isn’t really running it as a real business. And if there isn’t sufficient demand, the cheaper places will likely fill up first. Which sucks, really.

 

[Equi]

I would want an allocated stable but I also wouldn’t be happy with my horse being fed out in the field with another horse. Injuries could easily occur esp in winter when things get sparse and the horses get arsey.

 

[Abacus]

I would want an allocated stable but I also wouldn’t be happy with my horse being fed out in the field with another horse. Injuries could easily occur esp in winter when things get sparse and the horses get arsey.

I totally see this concern. I’ve fed mine in small groups in the field for the last 8 years and literally never had a problem, if you respect the herd order. But understand many people wouldn’t be happy with it.

 

[Abacus]

This is all really interesting and actually clarifies what I thought to start with: livery doesn’t pay. There’s no point in me offering spaces that make a loss when I consider maintenance and other hassle. I did think that the saving on mucking out and bedding (and the lack of poo picking) would make it attractive. Oh well, it’s lovely and peaceful at the moment…

 

[Equi]

I totally see this concern. I’ve fed mine in small groups in the field for the last 8 years and literally never had a problem, if you respect the herd order. But understand many people wouldn’t be happy with it.

I too feed my own herd together, let them sort it out. But it’s my horses and my vet bills. I wouldn’t want a strangers horse I don’t know being either the cause of or the recipient of injury. It gets too muddy.

 

[MuddyMonster]

It sounds a great deal, to be honest. I think it's worth holding firm for what you want - especially as you have good riding facilities. I'd be biting your hand off!

I was paying £360 for part livery grass livery 3/4 years ago so your pricing is fine, I'd say.

 

[TreeDog]

I'm in a reasonably expensive area and currently pay £280pcm for full grass livery including hay, lovely hacking, but no feeding or arena. Basic stable facilities available if needed (not allocated) and limited storage, fields harrowed, no poo picking. What you describe sounds like the sort of thing I'd look for (if I had to move from current yard), it would be stretching my budget though, but well managed full grass livery for ridden horses is in short supply. £325 + extra for hay is an expensive end of the market but if the yard facilities are posh enough you might eventually find people willing to pay that, but you'd need to sift through a lot of enquiries from people who will lose interest when they see its out of their budget.

 

[ihatework]

I’m pitching primarily as ridden (there’s an arena and hacking) but retirement is of course possible. I can bring in for the farrier etc.

£325 is basically £40 pw for livery plus paying someone to feed etc twice per day. So no, doesn’t include the cost of hay and food - it would make a loss if it did. It’s an expensive area in Oxfordshire.

I understand the costs from both sides of the fence. And I agree that making a reasonable wage from any sort of livery is difficult.

I would pay £325 a month for what you are offering in an expensive area, but you will find that really is on the upper end of what the general market would pay.

FWIW I’m in Cotswolds and pay £350/month for Youngstock livery and that includes hay, foot trim and worm counts ….

 

[holeymoley]

I’d he happy with the first two points but not the feeding together I’m afraid.

Also I’m in Scotland where I think there’s a bit of a difference in livery prices compared to south of the border but that seems incredibly expensive for that type of livery.

 

[Fieldlife]

Do you have a system / pens for feeding to ensure no swapping?

I have field stable and hay in my livery. I pay on site free lancer to check & feed 5 nights a week. I cover poo picking, the other 9 visits & feeds.

Even allowing for hay I pay more than you charge.

It’s not expensive if you pay yourself minimum wage for feeding checking putting hay out in winter etc.

Round here if grazing, soil drainage, hacking and arena good you’d get takers IMO

 

[Abacus]

I understand the costs from both sides of the fence. And I agree that making a reasonable wage from any sort of livery is difficult.

I would pay £325 a month for what you are offering in an expensive area, but you will find that really is on the upper end of what the general market would pay.

FWIW I’m in Cotswolds and pay £350/month for Youngstock livery and that includes hay, foot trim and worm counts ….

Thank you. I’m not looking to make a wage, I have another job. The fee is literally just to pay the person who feeds them most of the time, and the rest would contribute to maintenance / improvement of the yard and maybe make a bit over. Livery is definitely not a living wage!

 

[Abacus]

Do you have a system / pens for feeding to ensure no swapping?

I have field stable and hay in my livery. I pay on site free lancer to check & feed 5 nights a week. I cover poo picking, the other 9 visits & feeds.

Even allowing for hay I pay more than you charge.

It’s not expensive if you pay yourself minimum wage for feeding checking putting hay out in winter etc.

Round here if grazing, soil drainage, hacking and arena good you’d get takers IMO

I don’t have pens. I have spaced hay boxes where we also drop the food bowls. In two of the fields the horses know their order and don’t swap. The other has my two big horses who are idiots and nick each others food (which is the same), that’s my problem. If we had an issue I would take one or more out to feed them.

Thanks for your other comments.

 

[HopOnTrot]

I looked at a yard about 15 years ago that did herd turnout, everyone came onto the yard for hay a few hours and the skinnies were in boxes for extra feed if needed. No one was specifically stabled and it was “full” livery and that was about £350 a month.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I wonder if people are wary about hay that they pay for individually being put out in the field. I would add the cost of hay onto your livery charge and call it inclusive, then they are all paying the same, or if you prefer, according to the horse's size.
I would also stress the lack of poo-picking etc in your ad

 

[Rowreach]

Thank you. I’m not looking to make a wage, I have another job. The fee is literally just to pay the person who feeds them most of the time, and the rest would contribute to maintenance / improvement of the yard and maybe make a bit over. Livery is definitely not a living wage!

Not only does it not pay, but you have to consider the hassle that having liveries (the people more than the horses) will give you (speaking from many years of experience).

Enjoy the peace

 

[Lois Lame]

I have recently advertised two to three livery spaces. What I offer is ‘part grass livery’ to include twice-daily feeding, giving hay when needed, and checking. They live out 24/7.

I do it this way because
- I think they are happier and healthier living out
- less mucking out and cost of bedding
- horses are always fed together, no random people turning up to feed one and leaving the rest discontented. And feeding one horse doesn’t work as they live out in twos and threes.

I’ve had one person take up a space so far. The others I have spoken with mostly want pure DIY, or an allocated stable. Is there actually demand for what I’m offering? I thought people would like it but might have been wrong.

I would have misunderstood 'part grass livery' to mean the horses will be given some time at grass, but mostly stabled, and maybe not going out if it's raining or muddy or this or that.

What you are offering, though (having read what you are offering) sounds good.

How have you worded it in your advertisement?

 

[Lois Lame]

I don’t have pens. I have spaced hay boxes where we also drop the food bowls. In two of the fields the horses know their order and don’t swap. The other has my two big horses who are idiots and nick each others food (which is the same)...

That sounded so sweet

 

[planete]

I pay £390 a month for the same type of livery you are offering with hay and feed included. The only differences are field shelters in all the fields and a grass school only usable in the drier months but good hacking with no unavoidable road work. I would rather have an all inclusive price with no worries about extra charges for hay and feed, otherwise I would certainly be very keen on what you are offering. There has been a lot of interest here and the other liveries vary from youngsters to ridden or retired horses, from thoroughbreds to heavies and shetlands. Many liveries are DIY though at a reduced cost of £60 a week I believe which still includes hay but entails helping with all chores around the place which means much reduced labour costs for the yard owner. Our yard owner is also very nuch present and works tirelessly to improve the place, building extra shelters, making mud free areas, making sure horses are put with compatible companions and being available to sort out any emergencies. I am not sure I would be so happy about a setup without a knowledgeable person I
trust in charge and very present at all times.